Avernum 4?

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AuthorTopic: Avernum 4?
*i
The Establishment
Member # 6
 written Friday, August 26 2005 18:22 Profile #100
Oh yes, Jeff mocks us all.

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Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Milla
Infiltrator
Member # 65
 written Friday, August 26 2005 19:24 Profile Homepage #101
On the A4 plot, it appears my War of Succession theory has gone out the window.

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Posts: 650 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Delicious Vlish
His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
 written Friday, August 26 2005 19:57 Profile #102
quote:
Originally written by Drakefyre:

Just so you know, Jeff has read this thread and scoffs at you.
Scoffs at who in particular?

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Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00
Jumpin Salmon
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
 written Friday, August 26 2005 20:04 Profile #103
I would suspect that Jeff regularly scoffs at everyone that makes judgements based on partial or incomplete information. Which includes pretty much all of humanity. What I have trouble believing is that he bothered to read this thread.

*this message sponsored by the dragons*
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Friday, August 26 2005 20:04 Profile Homepage #104
Remember how the Nethergate FAQ proudly declared that Jeff had spent months researching the culture of the ancient Romans and Celts to make his game as historically authentic as possible?

Sometimes I think Jeff is laughing at the old Jeff.

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Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Jumpin Salmon
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
 written Friday, August 26 2005 20:34 Profile #105
On the other hand, if Jeff looked at this thread he may do so again. Therefore.

Jeff, I mock you for not having the guts to allow vahnatai player characters.

*this message sponsored by Bacardi screamshots*
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Bender Bending Rodriguez
Shock Trooper
Member # 3368
 written Friday, August 26 2005 21:22 Profile #106
quote:
Originally writenn by Jumpin' Salmon
Jeff, I mock you for not having the guts to allow vahnatai player characters.
I think it is strange that you are the only prominent member so far to have supported this idea. I think it would add to the game a lot, and it doesn't seem like it would be very hard to implement. Also my money is on dragon revenge.

[ Friday, August 26, 2005 21:23: Message edited by: Bender Bending Rodriguez ]

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Posts: 287 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Friday, August 26 2005 22:01 Profile Homepage #107
I agree that Vahnatai PCs would be neat, and I don't really see why the plot wouldn't allow them (even if the Vahnatai are the villains after all, not all the Vahnatai hate humans). They'd need either a serious XP penalty or some other disadvantage (reduced HP?) to balance them, though.

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Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Friday, August 26 2005 22:45 Profile Homepage #108
quote:
Originally written by Bender Bending Rodriguez:

quote:
Originally writenn by Jumpin' Salmon
Jeff, I mock you for not having the guts to allow vahnatai player characters.
I think it is strange that you are the only prominent member so far to have supported this idea. I think it would add to the game a lot, and it doesn't seem like it would be very hard to implement. Also my money is on dragon revenge.
He's prominent? I don't even know who he is.

Edit: Vahnatai PCs would be cool, though. It wouldn't detract from the game at all, anyway.

[ Friday, August 26, 2005 22:47: Message edited by: Ash Lael ]

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Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Kingy
Lifecrafter
Member # 3171
 written Friday, August 26 2005 23:24 Profile Homepage #109
Someone could just create a Vahnatai graphic and change the program slightly so even if he doesn't include them we can still use them.
Posts: 776 | Registered: Friday, July 4 2003 07:00
Micawber
Agent
Member # 2759
 written Saturday, August 27 2005 01:44 Profile Homepage #110
Well I'm looking forward to Avernum 4 (even if, to judge by this forum, I'm almost the only one). My principal fear about A4 was that it would introduce the GF combat mode - with its unpredictable grid and weird action point rules. Based on the comments by drakefyre and *i, I'm hopeful that A4 will avoid these drawbacks. So I give A4 an unqualified welcome.

You know, I disagree with almost everybody's comments above. For me it's the gameplay, not the plot, that makes SW games so good. For example the replayability - this is because of the gameplay and atmosphere - on the second/third/nth time round you already know the plot, but you still want to play.

To be perfectly honest the plot of Exile/Avernum/Nethergate leaves me cold anyway, and is even off-putting (spells? goblins? magic ravens? give me a break!). The plot of Geneforge was sort of interesting because it's quasi-scientific and linked to current issues, but on its own it wouldn't make me play the game. But the actual playing of the game is fun, so the plot really doesn't matter. As far as I'm concerned the only function of the plot is to get you in position to try new challenges. Pretty much the only thing the plot could do to spoil things would be not playing "fair". For example just killing you pointlessly or arbitrarily taking away your stats. Jeff obviously understands this because his games are scrupulously "fair". And that's all I ask.

Apparently no one else here agrees, but that's my ha'p'orth (or 2 cents' worth, if you will).

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Everything I know about the Avernum Trilogy: [ A1 | A2 | A3 ]
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00
Thralni
Master
Member # 5977
 written Saturday, August 27 2005 02:02 Profile Homepage #111
What's the difficulty anyway about Vahnatai in your party? i'm making a pc graphic at the moment for someone. he says it can work with a premade party. so what's the difficulty? I assume you can take a vahnatai graphic from the game's resources, modify it a bit, and there you have your own vahnatai party!

Anyway, i mentione this before, but nobody seemed to have said something about it, how about grah-hoth coming back again for revenge? he id a demon, a chief demon, so he can make all these strange monsters.

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Arancaytar
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
 written Saturday, August 27 2005 02:11 Profile Homepage #112
quote:
Originally written by Benny Boy:

quote:
Originally written by Drakefyre:

Just so you know, Jeff has read this thread and scoffs at you.
I want proof then.
;)
I can confirm, Stareye has told me something similar yesterday. :P

A certain "fav evil Vahnatai wizard" will be making an appearance. The name Rentar wasn't mentioned, although there really aren't many other options. Oh, and a goblin/bandit lair, if that surprises you.
Finally, apparently there'll be a monster named an "Ogre Chef", although whether that means a cook or a "Chief" I'm not sure.

Following the earlier plots of the games, since the Vahnatai went from being an ally against the Empire to being an enemy against your alliance with the Empire... I suspect we fight the Empire again and ally with Rentar. Or not. Perhaps this time the Empire is allied with Rentar and kicks Avernite butt.

[ Saturday, August 27, 2005 02:15: Message edited by: Arancaytar ]

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Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Thralni
Master
Member # 5977
 written Saturday, August 27 2005 02:15 Profile Homepage #113
quote:
Originally written by Arancaytar:


Finally, apparently there'll be a monster named an "Ogre Chef", although whether that means a cook or a "Chief" I'm not sure.
That would be nice. If its a cook, you can stuff your faces from time to time, and if its a chief, you can hopefully get a pile of loot. :D (I'd rather have the orge cook :P ).

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Thralni's almighty Avernum pages: My webpage, containing scenario's and graphics made by me (And maybe someday the homepage of the almighty chicken gods).

Click here for more information on Olga's fortune teller kiosk

Olga's fortune teller kiosk has been temporarily closed down, but you can contact the prophet with a PM - Was signed by the prophet of the almighty chicken gods, gods of everything that is a chicken.

Work has begun on the Nephilian grammar and vocabulary guide!
Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Drakefyre
Triad Mage
Member # 7
 written Saturday, August 27 2005 02:29 Profile Homepage #114
The Ogre Chef is actually a chef. There is also a Goblin Chef. Unfortunately, I can't tell you more for fear of spoiling the plot.

Yes, there are scripts.

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Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Nikki.
Shaper
Member # 3442
 written Saturday, August 27 2005 04:35 Profile Homepage #115
quote:
Originally written by Drakefyre:

The Ogre Chef is actually a chef. There is also a Goblin Chef. Unfortunately, I can't tell you more for fear of spoiling the plot.
Too late! I worked it out...

Okay, King Micah decides that he'll let non-humans such as ogres and goblins live in peace with Avernum, since he's been accused of going all "Hawthorne" by the PC-brigade. In order to show he's prepared to do this, he hires an Ogre Chef to work in the kitchens of The Castle.

Unfortunately, the Ogre is a double agent for the Vahnatai Against Humans group, and slips poison into the soup. Everyone in The Castle dies, except Rone (because we love him, and he forgot how to use a spoon). Then, with Micah dead, there is a civil war to find a successor.

The rest of the details are a little iffy at the moment...

[ Saturday, August 27, 2005 04:36: Message edited by: SupaNik ]

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Thus endeth this post.
Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Saturday, August 27 2005 04:43 Profile Homepage #116
quote:
Originally written by Micawber:

Well I'm looking forward to Avernum 4 (even if, to judge by this forum, I'm almost the only one). My principal fear about A4 was that it would introduce the GF combat mode - with its unpredictable grid and weird action point rules. Based on the comments by drakefyre and *i, I'm hopeful that A4 will avoid these drawbacks. So I give A4 an unqualified welcome.

You know, I disagree with almost everybody's comments above. For me it's the gameplay, not the plot, that makes SW games so good. For example the replayability - this is because of the gameplay and atmosphere - on the second/third/nth time round you already know the plot, but you still want to play.

To be perfectly honest the plot of Exile/Avernum/Nethergate leaves me cold anyway, and is even off-putting (spells? goblins? magic ravens? give me a break!). The plot of Geneforge was sort of interesting because it's quasi-scientific and linked to current issues, but on its own it wouldn't make me play the game. But the actual playing of the game is fun, so the plot really doesn't matter. As far as I'm concerned the only function of the plot is to get you in position to try new challenges. Pretty much the only thing the plot could do to spoil things would be not playing "fair". For example just killing you pointlessly or arbitrarily taking away your stats. Jeff obviously understands this because his games are scrupulously "fair". And that's all I ask.

Apparently no one else here agrees, but that's my ha'p'orth (or 2 cents' worth, if you will).
I share your views on plot, but also find the gameplay repetitive and boring, without exception. But I imagine Jeff holds very similar opinions to your own, so hey, good for you.

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Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Diarog Lethuta
Warrior
Member # 5966
 written Saturday, August 27 2005 05:31 Profile Homepage #117
quote:
Well I'm looking forward to Avernum 4 (even if, to judge by this forum, I'm almost the only one). My principal fear about A4 was that it would introduce the GF combat mode - with its unpredictable grid and weird action point rules. Based on the comments by drakefyre and *i, I'm hopeful that A4 will avoid these drawbacks. So I give A4 an unqualified welcome.

You know, I disagree with almost everybody's comments above. For me it's the gameplay, not the plot, that makes SW games so good. For example the replayability - this is because of the gameplay and atmosphere - on the second/third/nth time round you already know the plot, but you still want to play.

To be perfectly honest the plot of Exile/Avernum/Nethergate leaves me cold anyway, and is even off-putting (spells? goblins? magic ravens? give me a break!). The plot of Geneforge was sort of interesting because it's quasi-scientific and linked to current issues, but on its own it wouldn't make me play the game. But the actual playing of the game is fun, so the plot really doesn't matter. As far as I'm concerned the only function of the plot is to get you in position to try new challenges. Pretty much the only thing the plot could do to spoil things would be not playing "fair". For example just killing you pointlessly or arbitrarily taking away your stats. Jeff obviously understands this because his games are scrupulously "fair". And that's all I ask.

Apparently no one else here agrees, but that's my ha'p'orth (or 2 cents' worth, if you will). --Micawber
Yes I also can't wait for the game. I really don't care how the plot turns out as long as the game is fun. Your 2 cents' are definatly worth something to me. Also I really think we should listen to those who are beta testing the game (Drakefyre and others) who have said somewhere in this thread that certain features (such as turn based play) will be included. And Jeff is right to mock us. We only brought it upon ourselves.

-- Diarog Lethuta

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Posts: 91 | Registered: Thursday, June 16 2005 07:00
Kelandon
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
 written Saturday, August 27 2005 05:36 Profile Homepage #118
quote:
Originally written by Micawber:

You know, I disagree with almost everybody's comments above. For me it's the gameplay, not the plot, that makes SW games so good.
That doesn't actually disagree with many here. I agree — I just think the overall experience suffers when the plot is bad. The gameplay is virtually always the strongest point in a SW game, but Jeff has made a few good plots before, and I'd like to see him do so again. I'd rather have good gameplay and a good plot than just good gameplay.

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Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Thralni
Master
Member # 5977
 written Saturday, August 27 2005 06:13 Profile Homepage #119
quote:
Originally written by Drakefyre:


Yes, there are scripts.
you mean, normal plain scripts which I can look in like in BoA, or scripts that are totally different than BoA?

And, the way you said it, it sound (to me) like something bad. is it?

EDIT:
I saw somebody holding a hole story on that he thinks that everybody finds the plot more important than the gameplay (no offence). That's not true. the gameplay was the reason I hate geneforge, not so much the plot. Avernum I liked because of the gameplay, less becasue of the plot.

[ Saturday, August 27, 2005 07:30: Message edited by: Thralni, emperor of Riverrod ]

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Thralni's almighty Avernum pages: My webpage, containing scenario's and graphics made by me (And maybe someday the homepage of the almighty chicken gods).

Click here for more information on Olga's fortune teller kiosk

Olga's fortune teller kiosk has been temporarily closed down, but you can contact the prophet with a PM - Was signed by the prophet of the almighty chicken gods, gods of everything that is a chicken.

Work has begun on the Nephilian grammar and vocabulary guide!
Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Micawber
Agent
Member # 2759
 written Saturday, August 27 2005 08:22 Profile Homepage #120
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

quote:
Originally written by Micawber:

You know, I disagree with almost everybody's comments above. For me it's the gameplay, not the plot, that makes SW games so good.
That doesn't actually disagree with many here. I agree — I just think the overall experience suffers when the plot is bad. The gameplay is virtually always the strongest point in a SW game, but Jeff has made a few good plots before, and I'd like to see him do so again. I'd rather have good gameplay and a good plot than just good gameplay.
Well I'm glad to hear you say that and don't disagree at all. I'm sure a better plot would enhance the game[*]. But when I posted, I had just read the entire thread of 110 posts, of which I count 39 were commenting on the perceived plot (overwhelmingly, in the negative). While I may have been wrong to disagree with "almost everybody's comments" there was a dominant theme in the views expressed, to which I was responding.

*Having said this, many of my favourite games have absolutely no plot whatsoever.

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Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00
*i
The Establishment
Member # 6
 written Saturday, August 27 2005 09:10 Profile #121
quote:
Originally written by Diarog Lethuta:

And Jeff is right to mock us. We only brought it upon ourselves.
Pathetic customers! What do they know? How dare they question the greatness of the most brilliant game designer of all time!!

:D :D :D

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Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Drakefyre
Triad Mage
Member # 7
 written Saturday, August 27 2005 09:12 Profile Homepage #122
quote:
Originally written by Thralni, emperor of Riverrod:

quote:
Originally written by Drakefyre:


Yes, there are scripts.
you mean, normal plain scripts which I can look in like in BoA, or scripts that are totally different than BoA?

And, the way you said it, it sound (to me) like something bad. is it?
Pretty much the same, although some calls have been changed (gf instead of get_flag, etc.).

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Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Kelandon
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
 written Saturday, August 27 2005 14:00 Profile Homepage #123
That sounds like a subliminal message to indicate that we are actually playing GF, not Avernum.

[/paranoid]

Hey, I'm starting to get into this fake HTML tag thing. It helps indicate tone so that my posts don't get horribly misread.

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The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Archmage Alex
Skip to My Lou
Member # 40
 written Saturday, August 27 2005 14:07 Profile Homepage #124
Fools! It's the GIFTR I tell you! The GIFTR!

That said, I too think Vahnatai PC would be a nice step up and very easy for Jeff to implement I would think. However, as, from what I've seen and heard, this is not terribly likely to happen, I would hope that Jeff would at least tells us why he doesn't add Vahnatai PCs.

Jeff likely scoffs because he knows that almost every single complainer is going to download the demo regardless of their little faith in the game and 3/4 will likely register too.

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