Avernum 4?
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Shaper
Member # 247
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written Tuesday, September 20 2005 17:40
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Aren't all the Vahnatai evil. I'm sure they were proven to be so in A3. -------------------- I stop rubber at 160km/h, five times a week. CANUCKS RESPEK! My Style The Knight Between Posts. Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, September 20 2005 18:21
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Evil? Not exactly. Opposed to the Empire and to any Avernites who stand in the way? Yes. Also keep in mind that it was only one clan, and not even all of that clan. Bon-Ihrno surely wasn't absolutely alone in his views. —Alorael, who doesn't think the vahnatai are so evil by their standards. The Empire committed an unthinkable crime and deserved unthinkable punishment. Not nice, no, but who's to say it's evil? Where's your sense of moral relativism? Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4214
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written Wednesday, September 21 2005 00:36
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quote:Actually, Garzahd did. Most citizens of the Empire probably disagreed with him. I don't see how abducting the Crystal Souls is more immoral than capturing, for instance, the members of the Vahnatai council. Anyhow, it's certainly no excuse to exterminate all specimens on the surface world, while those who where guilty of the crime were already dead. [ Wednesday, September 21, 2005 01:15: Message edited by: Inferior ] Posts: 356 | Registered: Tuesday, April 6 2004 07:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Wednesday, September 21 2005 01:03
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Half of one clan of Vahnatai wish vengeance on the Empire for stealing Crystal Souls and vengeance on Avernum for interfering with the previous vengeance. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy desperance.net - We're Everywhere ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 1768
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written Wednesday, September 21 2005 09:58
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quote:It's more immoral (to the Vahnatai, and even to humans, as Crystal Souls have wisdom that all benefit from) than kidnapping the council members because of what they are to all Vahnatai everywhere. Council members are mortal, Crystal Souls are undying (unless killed?). -------------------- "Oh, North Wind, why frighten others? In Nature's family all are brothers. Puff and blow and wheeze and hiss; You can't frighten Shingebiss. Bring your frost and ice and snow; I'm still free to come and go. You can never frighten me, One who never fears is FREE!" -Shingebiss, the mighty duck Posts: 830 | Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5699
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written Wednesday, September 21 2005 13:27
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quote:???? ??? ???? ? Posts: 54 | Registered: Monday, April 11 2005 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 4614
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written Wednesday, September 21 2005 16:13
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Apparently they don't expire of old age. -------------------- -ben4808 For those who love to spam: CSM Forums RIFQ Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 247
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written Wednesday, September 21 2005 17:45
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The Empire was only trying to learn from the Crystal souls. I doubt they intended to hurt them in any way. -------------------- I stop rubber at 160km/h, five times a week. CANUCKS RESPEK! My Style The Knight Between Posts. Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Wednesday, September 21 2005 17:49
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Please examine Vyvnas-Bok in E2/A2 and E3/A3, then repeat that statement. —Alorael, who would say that taking the Crystal Souls is closer to blasphemy than kidnapping. The Crystal Souls aren't just vahnatai who are blue and contain more silicon. They're quasi-divine. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Wednesday, September 21 2005 17:55
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Also, it was a splinter cell of vahnatai that clued in the Empire as to the value of the revered gemstones. The Empire made the rational choice by taking the perceived advantage. The bad guys are the vahnatai who had an argument with the leadership. *this message sponsored by Ree-bok* Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Wednesday, September 21 2005 18:32
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quote:An Aftershocks reference, or a coincidence? -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 1768
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written Wednesday, September 21 2005 18:50
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quote:Which reminds me, why are/were some Vahnatai in league with the Empire in E2? -------------------- "Oh, North Wind, why frighten others? In Nature's family all are brothers. Puff and blow and wheeze and hiss; You can't frighten Shingebiss. Bring your frost and ice and snow; I'm still free to come and go. You can never frighten me, One who never fears is FREE!" -Shingebiss, the mighty duck Posts: 830 | Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 59
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written Wednesday, September 21 2005 19:29
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quote:Indeed, the vahnatai brigands who had the fort in the NE tunnels were allied with the Empire, and assisted, at least with information, the kidnapping of the Crystal Souls. Wasn't there's also a mission to kill a mad Crystal Soul in the Western tunnels? I don't recall its name, though. Posts: 950 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, September 21 2005 19:30
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quote:Delrin-Bok. [ Wednesday, September 21, 2005 21:36: Message edited by: Deep Sleep Therapy ] -------------------- My BoE Page Bandwagons are fun! Roots Hunted! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 247
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written Wednesday, September 21 2005 21:24
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So was the Empire really wrong in borrowing the crystal souls? I can't say they were when some Vahnatai openly help the Empire while others, Crystal Souls even, are not entirely aligned with their own people. Perhaps the Vahnatai orchestrated the whole accused theft of the Souls. edit: Oh and Ree-Bok hell yea!! [ Wednesday, September 21, 2005 21:31: Message edited by: VCH ] -------------------- I stop rubber at 160km/h, five times a week. CANUCKS RESPEK! My Style The Knight Between Posts. Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Wednesday, September 21 2005 21:45
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quote:When it is clear that you are dealing with not just an intelligent entity, but a significantly powerful one at that, I don't think "borrowing" is quite the right term. That said, I am wondering how they managed to capture them when apparently a crystal soul is capable of frying the brains of ordinary mortals at several paces. An explanation might have been given in the game, but I don't remember it. [ Wednesday, September 21, 2005 21:46: Message edited by: Arancaytar ] -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Wednesday, September 21 2005 22:49
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You know what totally weirds me out? The way things like this get discussed online as if it were something real and historic to investigate, analyze, and understand. I'll bet Jeff himself hasn't thought half as much about the implications, insinuations, motivations, and inevitable contradictions in his creation of the Vahnatai and their behavior. Is this a criticism of people who love to dig deep into what is really just a loosely assembled story for a game? Not especially, but it really is surreal to me to witness the depth of discussion and exploration something completely contrived like a game world can generate. I'll bet even Jeff couldn't answer half the questions, because the story is just a means to an end, playing on age-old themes of one sort or another. If you look too closely at anyone's imagined world, you will see the cracks, because no one can imagine something perfectly in harmony with reality--and you know what they say is stranger than fiction. There's just no telling what comes next in future human history. We keep surprising the mystics and experts alike. The fascination and endless debate over the imagined worlds of Star Wars, Harry Potter or J.R.R. Tolkien are all a bit ridiculous when you remember what you're debating...a story one person made up. I wrote this mostly out of my inclination to make wryly-amused philosophical sorts of observations of the world around me, so no need to pounce on me for stating the obvious. One should be willing to poke fun at oneself, and here I am in the middle of a slightly absurd place. [ Wednesday, September 21, 2005 22:55: Message edited by: synergy67 ] -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4256
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written Wednesday, September 21 2005 23:07
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I would say there is a reason that the greeting motto is 'Leave your sanity at the door". Besides the insanity of it, some of the people here have known eachother for going on 8-9? years (perhaps longer) and if they or even us 'yearlings' are to have interesting discussions about it, they have to be over an eclectic array of subjects, not just 'Vogelian' ones. This has similar aspects to Star Wars, or other story lines, but its different in that much of it can and is defined by the fan base. Posts: 564 | Registered: Wednesday, April 14 2004 07:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Thursday, September 22 2005 01:20
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It is possible that the Empire had the equivalent of a Thought Crystal when they captured the Crystal Souls, or the Crystal Souls thought that Gaddika and co. were taking them to a new crystal shrine or something. Most of the Olgai Clan felt that their vengeance was accomplished when they recovered the Crystal Souls and drove the Empire out of Avernum. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy desperance.net - We're Everywhere ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 618
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written Friday, September 23 2005 08:27
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Gosh. I guess I should've looked closer, before posting my topic. Eh, that's what I get for being really tired, I guess. :( -------------------- Aut Tace Aut Loquere Meliora Silencio Posts: 1487 | Registered: Sunday, February 10 2002 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 3542
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written Friday, September 23 2005 11:28
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I dont thinks its the vahnatais, it would be just too obvious, or maybe someone is manipulating or controlling them? I strongly think that there is something greater behind the vahnatais. :) -------------------- Spidersoft maniac Posts: 17 | Registered: Friday, October 10 2003 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 247
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written Friday, September 23 2005 13:56
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Yes perhaps there is^. Who created the Vahnatai? They too might have been designed as a monster plague to protect Avernum. -------------------- I stop rubber at 160km/h, five times a week. CANUCKS RESPEK! My Style The Knight Between Posts. Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 6136
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written Saturday, September 24 2005 18:12
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quote:well excuse me sir but this is the "avernum forums" so we are supossed to discuss here of avernum!that the people here take the game very close to their lives is their bussiness.me for example always comment in this games but i still keep my life going!well i really dont like that star trek fans that are so freak :rolleyes: but this forums are for talk about avernum dont you think, antway very close to this forums there is a section called General, in that place you can even discuss about african children if you want! -------------------- Death to my enemies!! Posts: 446 | Registered: Friday, July 22 2005 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3898
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written Saturday, September 24 2005 18:31
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quote:Overreaction of the day. -------------------- ~Note : The professional newbie's advice should not be taken seriously, or at all.~ LINKAGE Posts: 364 | Registered: Saturday, January 17 2004 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 247
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written Saturday, September 24 2005 18:38
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It's no more weird than analyzing a book. -------------------- I stop rubber at 160km/h, five times a week. CANUCKS RESPEK! My Style The Knight Between Posts. Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00 |