Are Drakons superior beings?

Pages

AuthorTopic: Are Drakons superior beings?
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #200
quote:
Originally written by Dikiyoba:

[then you're assuming too much.
Am I assuming any more than anyone else?
quote:
It's pretty clear anyone who step too far out of line is dead.
They guard their secrets, yes. But Waylander claimed that they were as violent as the drakons. Surely you don't see killing rogue shapers and creations as being on the same level as releasing rogues into the wild to kill at random?

--------------------
You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 7143
Profile #201
How many people seriously believe that the Drakons actually performed manual labor in the contruction?

--------------------
"After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one."
- Cato the Elder (234-149 BC)

"The mind, if it exists, is nothing but an unfortunate after effect of the brain process."
-Kripke

"One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly."
-Friedich Nietzche
Posts: 333 | Registered: Saturday, May 20 2006 07:00
Cartographer
Member # 995
Profile #202
when you enter quessa-uss it says:

"It all looks recently constructed, hastily built by drakons, serviles, and magic. There are empty depressions in the walls, waiting for mosaics or other artwork. The touches of luxury are waiting until after the war ends."

My assumption based on that description is that drakons did design, maybe lifted some of the heavier things that serviles couldn't, and performed magic as part of the construction. The serviles were likely relegated to hauling bricks and boards. I say that because the drakon arrogance implies to me that they wouldn't trust the serviles with designing a home for drakons.
Posts: 206 | Registered: Thursday, April 18 2002 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #203
silver:

quote:
"It all looks recently constructed, hastily built by drakons, serviles, and magic.

Although I have them on ignore, I can imagine the response.

"But we just KNOW that Drakons use serviles for all manual labour, so that quote must mean that only serviles were responsible for construction! Hence Drakons use serviles for all manual labour!"

Don't both quoting anything from the game. It's quite apparent that it doesn't matter a jot to Emp.

--------------------
VIVE LA TAKERS!
VIVE LA REBELLION!
VIVE LA GHALDRING!
Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #204
Originally by Emperor Tullegolar:

quote:
Am I assuming any more than anyone else?
On this particular point? Yes. There's not much more you conclude about drakons and art than what's given directly in the quote. Overall? No. We've all taken our assumptions and run with them.

quote:
How many people seriously believe that the Drakons actually performed manual labor in the contruction?
Dikiyoba does. They're building their own home, stronger, taller, know magic, never described as being particularily lazy, and in a hurry. Why wouldn't they do at least part of the work?
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 7143
Profile #205
I would like to know how to draw up quotes since people seem so skepticle about everything I say (though I know I may have been wrong on a few points). This way I can remind myself and produce evidence directly.

--------------------
"After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one."
- Cato the Elder (234-149 BC)

"The mind, if it exists, is nothing but an unfortunate after effect of the brain process."
-Kripke

"One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly."
-Friedich Nietzche
Posts: 333 | Registered: Saturday, May 20 2006 07:00
Warrior
Member # 8165
Profile #206
waylander,you have them on ignore for what reason? If i may ask.

--------------------
R.R
Posts: 179 | Registered: Friday, February 23 2007 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #207
quote:
Originally written by Waylander:

Although I have them on ignore, I can imagine the response.
Wrong. But hey, now at least you have an excuse for being wrong.

Retlaw: You can find quotes by opening the scripts folder which is in the files folder. In it, there are about two scripts for every area. You want the dialogue script, which will look something like "z72khimaussdlg.txt, " or whatever town you are looking for. Open that, and search through the dialogue. I don't think anyone has a text dump up yet, do they?

--------------------
You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #208
quote:
Originally written by Dikiyoba:

It's pretty clear anyone who step too far out of line is dead.

Dikiyoba.

Aren't you supposed to speak of yourself in the third person? Do I get a prize for catching you?
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #209
quote:
Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:

[QUOTE] Surely you don't see killing rogue shapers and creations as being on the same level as releasing rogues into the wild to kill at random?
Shapers do both.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #210
Originally by Stillness:

quote:
Do I get a prize for catching you?
No.

Dikiyoba's final paragraph will be as long or as short as Dikiyoba wants.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #211
quote:
Originally written by Dikiyoba:

Originally by Stillness:

quote:
Do I get a prize for catching you?
No.

Dikiyoba's final paragraph will be as long or as short as Dikiyoba wants.

hmm, ok ... a bit loose with "paragraph" but we'll let it go
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 7298
Profile #212
Drakons let fighting influence everything in their lives. Everything they make or do is either for battle or at the very least with war in mind. This is unchangeing never once have they changed their main battle stragety which is to make stronger drakons. Which is good when their are wars to fight but what about when the wars are over? If Drakons where to completely wipe out humanity would they ever stop fighting. I know humans fight a lot but its not constant. I would even argue to say Serviles are superiour because they are far adaptable. They learned how to exist out side their orginal fuction which was to serve humanity. Yet Drakons have yet to set one foot away from their orignal funcition which is to wage war. Until I see a large number of drakons doing something withour war in mind I convinced they are inferior.

--------------------
A rock has weight whether you admit it or not
Posts: 479 | Registered: Wednesday, July 12 2006 07:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #213
quote:
Originally written by Stillness:

Shapers do both.
When did Shapers release rogues into the wild? They usually go through great lengths to control all of their creations (see Barrier Zone).

--------------------
You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #214
quote:
Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:

quote:
Originally written by Stillness:

Shapers do both.
When did Shapers release rogues into the wild? They usually go through great lengths to control all of their creations (see Barrier Zone).

What do the shapers do at endgame when the drakons have had success with the unbound? If I'm not mistaken they do the same thing. My memory is failing me again.

And rogue doesn't quite apply to drakons or a shaped human the same way it applies to a fyora who is out of control. The shapers group them together so as to justify their slaughter.

I admit that drakons don't have a softer side like some of the serviles you see in the game, but to compare them is not really apples-to-apples as drakons are banned and serviles are not. Serviles blend as they are more human physically and you can't tell loyal from rebel if they are smart. I remember a few times when you encounter serviles and your PC notes that.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #215
The Shapers released uncontrolled rogues in that ending because the reasons that they hadn't before (innocents, the ecology, loyalist soldiers, etc.) were all dead or dying due to the Unbound.

A Shaped human or Rebel creation accomplishes mostly the same thing as a rogue creation. Either way, loyalists might die, but with the Shaped humans and Rebel creations, there isn't the possibility of at least a few Rebels dying as well.

--------------------
May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #216
quote:
Originally written by Stillness:

What do the shapers do at endgame when the drakons have had success with the unbound?
By then, innocent people are already screwed. There is no longer a point to holding back once the unbound are released. The Shapers are definity not as bad as the drakons in this reguard.
quote:
And rogue doesn't quite apply to drakons or a shaped human the same way it applies to a fyora who is out of control. The shapers group them together so as to justify their slaughter.
There was not a single Shaper rogue in the first three games. I don't remember any Shaper rogues in the fourth game, but if you can name some, I would be interested.
quote:
drakons are banned and serviles are not.
Independant serviles are definitly banned. Does it make much of a difference that they can pretend to be stupid serviles? If they are caught living happily in a villiage (which is the way they want to live) they will die, reguardless.

--------------------
You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Agent
Member # 4574
Profile #217
quote:
Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:

There was not a single Shaper rogue in the first three games. I don't remember any Shaper rogues in the fourth game, but if you can name some, I would be interested.
G1- Geotsch (Whatever his name is)
G2- Barzahl
G3- Master Hoge
G4- Shaper Monarch

They were all Shapers, and they went rogue.

--------------------
Pass the sauerkraut and chips please.
Posts: 1186 | Registered: Friday, June 18 2004 07:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #218
I was actually talking about rogue creations, but I'm glad you brought up rogue shapers. Note that whenever a shaper goes rogue, the majority of humans (especially in the case of Monarch) come together to eliminate the threat to the innocent. Humans go out of their way to protect the innocent, drakons do not.

--------------------
You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Agent
Member # 4574
Profile #219
quote:
Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:

I was actually talking about rogue creations, but I'm glad you brought up rogue shapers. Note that whenever a shaper goes rogue, the majority of humans (especially in the case of Monarch) come together to eliminate the threat to the innocent. Humans go out of their way to protect the innocent, drakons do not.
I thought that might be what you were talking about, but you have to realize that those rogue Shapers made Rogues. Of course, you probably want Loyalist Shapers making Rogues. To that, I point to the reason that they had no need to.

Now, on to your point about the Monarch. Did the Rebels not fight the Monarch as well? Did the Rebels not fight what's her name (the crazed lifecrafter) in the Forsaken Lands? If some powerful Drakon, Drayk, or other Rebel started terrorising everyone and become a new Monarch, do you thing the Drakons would not take action?

--------------------
Pass the sauerkraut and chips please.
Posts: 1186 | Registered: Friday, June 18 2004 07:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #220
quote:
To that, I point to the reason that they had no need to.
Of course they had need! People act like the drakons have it so much tougher than the Shapers do. It is noted many times that the Shapers are taking many casualties, they are reduced to hiding in their fortresses. Surely some super rogues would have been great to dump into provinces that they had aleady been lost. But they don't do that, it is against their principles. Only once the drakons had already screwed the world over do they finally release all they have.

As for Monarch, yes, the rebels under Greta attacked him. Humans are able to resolve their differences to protect the innocent. The drakons have not yet been in a position where they've had to save innocents from rogues. However, I have a feeling that unless it would be to their own great benefit for them to do so, they probably would not come to the rescue. After all, they are openly willing to murder millions to win the war, so they've already proven that they care little for the innocent.

--------------------
You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #221
While Shapers may not create rogues deliberately, they certainly have no qualms about leaving their creations to go rogue in areas they've abandoned. Look at the Dumping Pits or Purity Workshop B.

Besides, there are plenty of areas like the Secured Crossroads or the Barrier Zone where patrols of Shaper creations have standing orders to kill on sight, which isn't really any better than hordes of rogues for the innocents who inevitably get killed by them.

--------------------
The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #222
Hey, those dumping pits and sealed labs and whatnot are not meant to be entered by anyone, ever. As for creations guarding key strategic areas, what makes you say that those are no better than sending rogues to infest farmlands, or areas directly ajacent to villages? It's much better!

As for your examples: the Barrier Zone creations are under the direct control of Shapers, they can react to situations far more rationally than rogues. As for the ones at the Secured Crossroads, if they weren't there, the crazies at the Circle of the Drayk could escape, causing much more harm to nearby people (if there are any) than the shaper creations, which are bound to their area.

--------------------
You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #223
What about the rogues in the farmland just east of Dillame? When you enter the area, the farmers are fleeing for safety because the Shaper creations are out of control, despite the fact that a whole unit of loyal soldiers is there.

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Agent
Member # 4574
Profile #224
Sorry for the late response. I was under the assumption that during the Siege of the Forsaken Lands, the Shapers sent many creations out into the former farmlands, without Shaper control.

EDIT: Also, you think that the Drakons wouldn't eliminate rogues unless they would benifit.

[ Saturday, March 24, 2007 16:27: Message edited by: Returnedking ]

--------------------
Pass the sauerkraut and chips please.
Posts: 1186 | Registered: Friday, June 18 2004 07:00

Pages