Are Drakons superior beings?

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AuthorTopic: Are Drakons superior beings?
Warrior
Member # 6912
Profile #425
I have only played G3 and G4 so I need to ask a question. Has anyone ever reshaped themselves to appear different? Or can they only make them selves stronger and bigger? I am kind of curious if the drakons can give them selves hands because if they can’t that sort of is a major flaw.
Posts: 89 | Registered: Wednesday, March 15 2006 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #426
quote:
Originally written by vld:

quote:
edit: honestly can you imagine a drakon sweeping a floor
And i can`t imagine Monarch washing the toilet.
Way to miss the point completely. Notice the person you quoted was refering to all drakons. You were refering to a single human. You can certainly imagine a human cleaning toilets or sweeping floors, can't you?
quote:
So we can`t assume that Shapers wouldn`t accept dryaks but you can assume that Drakons wouldn`t do any work? Double standarts?
Shapers would not accept drayks, there is no assumption here. The facts are that their existence is illegal. As for drakons not doing any work, this is indeed an assumption. I don't think the question is whether or not they would work, the question is could they? They lack fine motor skills, as has already been pointed out.

To answer rantalot's question: no one has ever shaped a physical change to themselves directly. Barzahl did create the drakons from old drayks, so I suppose it is possible to change someone. However, all he really did was grow them bigger and stronger in some vats, a specific change such as making hands more agile would be more difficult, I imagine. It would be easier to just make the next generation of drakons with better hands, which should be easy enough, but the drakons have never shown any interest in something that would not give them an advantage over enemies in battle.

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #427
Yeah, you all are right. I am giving up. I can't argue against your drakons-don't-clean-toilets theory. I lose.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #428
quote:
Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:

Shapers would not accept drayks, there is no assumption here. The facts are that their existence is illegal.
So are Geneforge-altered independent serviles, but the Shapers are willing to ally with one of those and even let him remain in a position of some influence after the rebellion is crushed.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #429
Sure, but until there is a single drayk or drakon working for the Shapers, I can say with certainty that they do not accept them.

I think the Shapers allow serviles to join them because they are more moldable. Drakons, in their single-mindedness, would never work for Shapers. The fact that serviles would work for either side shows an adaptability that drakons lack. Drakons are blinded by their arrogance, hindering their alliances with other creations and humans. The Shapers recognize this and are willing to adapt themselves by allowing serviles to join them.

Oh, and Stillness gave up.
IMAGE(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:aln68b4Xgs6vcM:http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/images/covers/sieg.jpg)

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #430
Originally by Lord Safey:

quote:
honestly can you imagine a drakon sweeping a floor
If they had no one else to do it, then yes.

Originally by Nalyd:

quote:
The Drayks that haven't left outright are disgruntled and mistreated. The humans and serviles are pretty much dead. Where do you see internal strife in the Shapers? The Shapers teamed up with a Geneforge warped Servile, if you choose to play as a Servile.
The drakons only started their excessive arrogance and mistreating the drayks and serviles a few months before you arrived, once the drakons realized how badly the rebellion was losing, just like the Shapers are only willing to work with you because they're losing.

Originally by Emperor Tullegolar:

quote:
Humans can tighten bolts if they need to, the game hints a few times (shaper ending) that drakons can not.
Where? I just went through a Shaper ending and saw nothing like that. Quotes, please.

quote:
I don't think the question is whether or not they would work, the question is could they? They lack fine motor skills, as has already been pointed out.
They don't lack find motor skills. They just aren't as good as them as humans are. They can write, even if it is large clumsy handwriting (and drakons are larger than humans--their handwriting is going to be larger as well). They are capable of doing the work, especially if they had drakon-sized tools to work with.

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #431
The Shapers do not need you to win. They already have the Rebels in almost full retreat before you came along. Nalyd once stood passively by and made sure that nothing attacked his singleton PC while the final expedition of Shapers fought the Rebel defense. The Shapers lost two Thornslingers, a Wingbolt, and a Warrior. The Rebels lost.

The Drakons have huge unwieldy claws. They can barely hold anything without shredding it into confetti. Good for battle, but not life.

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May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 7143
Profile #432
If the Drakons are handicapped only by lack of tools their size, then why don't/didn't they make some their size?

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"After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one."
- Cato the Elder (234-149 BC)

"The mind, if it exists, is nothing but an unfortunate after effect of the brain process."
-Kripke

"One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly."
-Friedich Nietzche
Posts: 333 | Registered: Saturday, May 20 2006 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 7298
Profile #433
Trakovite ending shows that drakons need the other speicces of the rebellion. Since the humans invented shapeing it is safe to assume they existed without creations and could do so again. The drakons have always had other creations augment them. In all their time they neveeer once tried to modify themselves to do otherwise. I remeber once your pc comes across a tribe of battle alphas thats not doing so well becuase all they reall know how to do is fight. Your pc tells them how to do menial work and they take right too. The drakons can't even do that. For all their might they are stopped in their tracks when the rest of rebellion refuses to help them.

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A rock has weight whether you admit it or not
Posts: 479 | Registered: Wednesday, July 12 2006 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 8425
Profile #434
quote:
quote:
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edit: honestly can you imagine a drakon sweeping a floor
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And i can`t imagine Monarch washing the toilet.
ET has already pointed out the fallacy in this, but I'd like to add that this seems suspiciously like double standards to me. If we pointed out one war-crazy drakon to prove that all drakons are war-crazy, you'd (rightfully) shout us down. When you do the same things to humans, not a peep from your side.

Also, if we make a mistake, we're ignoring facts. If you make a mistake, you're- actually, you haven't even tried to justify it yet, or admitted your mistake. It's as if it never happened.

I'll admit that if their survival was at stake, drakons probably would eventually stoop to menial labor. (Although the transition would be smoother with humans.)

quote:
Shapers would not accept drayks, there is no assumption here. The facts are that their existence is illegal.
So are the Awakened, but if you run from Sucia Island in G1 without doing anything to Goettsch or Trajkov, the Shapers ally with the Awakened. And the Awakened never change their beliefs.

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The sparrows are flying again.
Posts: 23 | Registered: Sunday, April 1 2007 07:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #435
Originally by Morior:

quote:
So are the Awakened, but if you run from Sucia Island in G1 without doing anything to Goettsch or Trajkov, the Shapers ally with the Awakened. And the Awakened never change their beliefs.
But there is plenty of evidence in G4 that the Shapers still do not accept the drayks.

General Alwan about Shorass: "Of course, he is a drayk, so he is marked for death no matter what he believes. Drayks are Barred. He must die."

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 8425
Profile #436
Something I did not know. Thanks.

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The sparrows are flying again.
Posts: 23 | Registered: Sunday, April 1 2007 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 7298
Profile #437
If you go with the trakovite ending the drakons abilty to make the unbound are destroyed. The want to make the unbound desperately but because they can't/won't do menial work and the rebellion is willing to provide it. They can't build it. Also you can make a list of things that are beneath a drakon(due to pride) sumbiting to a human(or lesser creation),menial work (with exception of heavy lifting and only then if benfits them directly). Their are example of a drakon killing himself before doing some of these things (when you duel that upstart drakon and you come close to controling him)prehaps. I think you under estimate the drakons level of arrogance.

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A rock has weight whether you admit it or not
Posts: 479 | Registered: Wednesday, July 12 2006 07:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #438
The duel suicide is understandable. The Drakons fought hard for their rights to be independent, and they wouldn't give that up for anything.

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May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 7298
Profile #439
It is, put it shows how far they will go to avoid something they find distastful. Prehaps they wouldn't take as extrem measures to avoid stuff that isn't distastful. The point is someone need to due menial work of repearing the creation vats for the unbound. As desperate as the drakons where to do that they found it couldn't be done with out the rest of the rebellion. In my opinion this makes them most inferior sapient species on the game. SErviels can serve all roles of soceity, humans can, even dryaks can, and to leaser degree so do gazers. These species can exist by themselves drakons can not.

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A rock has weight whether you admit it or not
Posts: 479 | Registered: Wednesday, July 12 2006 07:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #440
And Gazers don't need to worry about menial labor because they are, presumably, telekinetic. Look in the Gazers workshop north of Agent Yngrid.

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May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Warrior
Member # 7764
Profile #441
quote:
Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:

IMAGE(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:aln68b4Xgs6vcM:http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/images/covers/sieg.jpg)
What's that a picture of anyway?

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I have a karma of 2!Yay!
Posts: 60 | Registered: Monday, December 11 2006 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 7143
Profile #442
I think its some sort of German victory poster...

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"After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one."
- Cato the Elder (234-149 BC)

"The mind, if it exists, is nothing but an unfortunate after effect of the brain process."
-Kripke

"One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly."
-Friedich Nietzche
Posts: 333 | Registered: Saturday, May 20 2006 07:00

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