Are Drakons superior beings?

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AuthorTopic: Are Drakons superior beings?
Warrior
Member # 7764
Profile #400
This is beginning to go off-topic

P.S.ambidextrous FTW! ;)

[ Wednesday, April 04, 2007 04:50: Message edited by: Tarrasque ]

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I have a karma of 2!Yay!
Posts: 60 | Registered: Monday, December 11 2006 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #401
quote:
Originally written by Stillness:

What does variety have to do with war anyway?
It's called combined arms. People who use it win wars.

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #402
quote:
Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:

quote:
Originally written by Stillness:

What does variety have to do with war anyway?
It's called combined arms. People who use it win wars.

It's been pointed out that the drakons do just that. He seems to be referring to the appearance of their creations though and not their function.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 8425
Profile #403
quote:
What does variety have to do with war anyway? The idea is efficiency. Any engineer will tell you that they want to use the same materials and resources for as many different jobs as possible. Making something completely new uses energy and is to be avoided.
Very good point, and one that I don't think I can rebutt. So I guess I have to accept it.

quote:
The drakons are the brains of the operation. I can't see how the guy tightening bolts on the incubation vats matters in this discussion.
Yes. Who needs mechanics? I know what a car looks like, I can figure the rest out. Who needs people to build computers? I know what they look like and what they end up doing, so I can figure out the rest.

And at the risk of being labelled politically incorrect, I would have to say that your average Pakinson's sufferer will accomplish less than your average healthy individual, and would be forced by the disease into inferiority by most of the standards used in this thread, by no fault of their own. Please don't flame me.

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The sparrows are flying again.
Posts: 23 | Registered: Sunday, April 1 2007 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #404
quote:
Originally written by Morior:

Yes. Who needs mechanics? I know what a car looks like, I can figure the rest out. Who needs people to build computers? I know what they look like and what they end up doing, so I can figure out the rest.
No, I agree that no man is an island. humans and drakons need others. What we're takilng about is shaping though. The Unbound are designed and shaped by drakons. You need machanics, janitors, metalurgists, etc, but shaping is king and the drakons have mastered that art. They are not inferior to humans. That is my point.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #405
How does being sufficient only in Shaping not make the Drakons inferior? The Serviles do almost all of the menial labor, cleaning, cooking, farming, etc. The Drakons all hold high positions as military personnel, researchers, etc. Without the other creations, Drakons would collapse in upon themselves because of infighting over "It's your turn to take out the garbage!"

With humans, the ones incapable of higher studies support those who are, and are for the most part okay with it. Of course, every peasant dreams of being a Shaper, but they usually realize that it isn't going to happen and carve out a nice little life for themselves. The Rebels are those who were either not recognized for their ability, are incapable of admitting their own shortcomings, or have been morally wronged by the Shapers(Who usually had a good reason to do what they did).

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May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 7298
Profile #406
Well if thats the case you really can't compare Drakons and Humans as far as superiorty. Humans can serve any role in society. Drakons serve in the leadership roles, while the drayks and serviles take other roles of soceity. To be more accruate it should be called Drakon/Dryak/servile/rebel human soceity. As an indiviual I think it depends on 3 things 1 your point of view, 2 what feild you considering, 3 that specific indivuial. My main is that everyone gives to much credit to drakons you forget the role serviles and dryaks play. The rebellion is notjust the drakons. The drakons as a race are not cabale of standing alone.

[ Wednesday, April 04, 2007 12:12: Message edited by: Lord Safey ]

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A rock has weight whether you admit it or not
Posts: 479 | Registered: Wednesday, July 12 2006 07:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #407
And yet the Drakons virtually condemned the human Rebellion to death. They let the Geneforge sit alone and unused in a dusty back room. No human recruiting is taking place, and those that are left are given menial or useless tasks. The Drayks themselves, ancestors of the Drakons, are looked upon as amusing but worthless children. Soon enough, the Drakons will stand alone and die. Some Drayks have already rejected Drakon rule (Somewhere around Northforge, likely to the north).

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May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #408
quote:
Originally written by Spokesman of the Dead:

How does being sufficient only in Shaping not make the Drakons inferior?
First the drakons can't shape, now that's all they're good at. You guys are a riot.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #409
Originally by Nalyd:

quote:
How does being sufficient only in Shaping not make the Drakons inferior? The Serviles do almost all of the menial labor, cleaning, cooking, farming, etc. The Drakons all hold high positions as military personnel, researchers, etc. Without the other creations, Drakons would collapse in upon themselves because of infighting over "It's your turn to take out the garbage!"
The Shapers and their strongest supporters wouldn't survive without serviles to do their menial labor either. How long do you think their society would remain stable without serviles cleaning, cooking, building, working the caravans, farming, and delivering messages?

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #410
It would be less easy, of course, but the humans and Shapers could of course manage it. The Drakons, due to their arrogance and pride, would rather fight and squabble about who does the hard work and who gets to sit back and chew on Shaper bones.

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May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #411
I think this thread is dead.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #412
You're just trying to worm out of it because you're losing. :D

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May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 8425
Profile #413
Dead? But we haven't beat nephil vs. slith yet!

Seriously, it doesn't look good when you try to declare the argument over. It seems like you know you're beat but are trying to save face. I may be misreading your intent, but it does seem like you're giving up.

And you're right. We are a riot. (I never claimed that we were always logical. Just that you weren't.)

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The sparrows are flying again.
Posts: 23 | Registered: Sunday, April 1 2007 07:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #414
Originally by Nalyd:

quote:
It would be less easy, of course, but the humans and Shapers could of course manage it.
Shaper society has been using and abusing servile labor for over 200 years. The Shapers are almost as arrogant as the drakons and have been telling non-Shapers what do to and what not to do for a similarly long period of time. This would not be a simple transition in the slightest. Do you honestly think people like Master Thell and his sons wouldn't argue and cause problems if they suddenly had to start doing their own work, or if they had to pay employees to work the farm for them? He only stops mistreating the serviles because you terrify him.

And if the humans can figure it out, why not the drakons? The drakons have the exact same need to eat and to get filth cleaned up, etc. as the Shapers do. Once they realized food was running low, they would figure something out real quick.

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 7298
Profile #415
drakons have never had to do it so we don't know. Though we do know that humans once did everything themselves and some humans do menial work. Humans have done it before albeit a long time ago. The drakons have never done it. The pass of the duty of meeting with lesser specices of the rebellion like a dead raccon. The only building they do is the heavy lifting (which is closet they every come to meneial work in all of geneforge history) They make good for skilled labor granted but menial work isn't their thing. Plus they like to argue a lot. So I imagine lots of argueing would go on about how do the menial work. I have seen nothing to show drakons would even condier it.

edit: honestly can you imagine a drakon sweeping a floor

[ Wednesday, April 04, 2007 16:46: Message edited by: Lord Safey ]

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A rock has weight whether you admit it or not
Posts: 479 | Registered: Wednesday, July 12 2006 07:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #416
The thing is, the people like Master Thell would either adjust or be forced to do the work themselves. The Drakons would rather fight and die. They have the same exact need, but they don't have the capabilities.

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May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Warrior
Member # 6912
Profile #417
A lot is being said about drakons being left by other rebel divisions, but not all drayks are rebelling and lets look at shapers and you will see the very same internal rebellion.

This rebellion however is where drakons are superior. There is no way in hell shapers will team up with the drayks but drakons teamed up with rebel humans.
Posts: 89 | Registered: Wednesday, March 15 2006 08:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #418
The Drayks that haven't left outright are disgruntled and mistreated. The humans and serviles are pretty much dead. Where do you see internal strife in the Shapers? The Shapers teamed up with a Geneforge warped Servile, if you choose to play as a Servile.

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May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Warrior
Member # 6912
Profile #419
How many shapers switched over to the rebellions side? I consider that evidence of an internal strife. Yes Alwan accepts your character no matter what he/she is but can you imagine the shapers counsel accepting a few hundred drayks as allies?
Posts: 89 | Registered: Wednesday, March 15 2006 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 8425
Profile #420
quote:
There is no way in hell shapers will team up with the drayks but drakons teamed up with rebel humans.
If they knew what the drakons were capable of? After the Unbound? I'll admit that it's less likely to happen than not, but a team-up is possible. You can't just assume that it would never happen. (Of course, the Shapers would probably betray the drayks as soon as the drakons were dealt with.)

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The sparrows are flying again.
Posts: 23 | Registered: Sunday, April 1 2007 07:00
Warrior
Member # 6912
Profile #421
I think shapers would keep their words IF they did ally with drayka, but I highly doubt they would ever consider it. They might team up with an individual drayk, but to ally with a drayk tribe or two…you seriously think that’s possible?
Posts: 89 | Registered: Wednesday, March 15 2006 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #422
quote:
Stillness:
No, I agree that no man is an island. humans and drakons need others.
Humans do not need drakons.

Yes, if the serviles were suddenly gone, human society would go into a panic, and it would take some time to get back on track. The point is, it will get back on track because that's how humanity works. If the drakons did not have creations to do their manual labor, they would likely get very violent at first. Then, it's not certain whether or not they could cope at all with their poor ability to do fine labor like writing. Humans can tighten bolts if they need to, the game hints a few times (shaper ending) that drakons can not.

The point is that drakons need other creations to compliment them, humans do not. Drakons are one-sided, good at only certain things, they were designed to be this way.

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Warrior
Member # 6912
Profile #423
But emp we don’t know this. Yes we are almost certain that drakons would have more problems then humans, but we don’t know it would be that bad. Eventually a drakon or two will figure out that if they start up a farm they can sell the food at high prices and build up their hoard or something like that. Now about bolts…..can’t they just reshape them selves? It won’t be the first time.
Posts: 89 | Registered: Wednesday, March 15 2006 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 7950
Profile #424
quote:
How does being sufficient only in Shaping not make the Drakons inferior?
Thats like saying that Drakons are superior because they are physicaly stronger or because they have claws so they don`t need weapons for fighting. Yes, thats a minus for Drakons but it`s not like Shapers are perfect in every way.

quote:
The Drakons, due to their arrogance and pride, would rather fight and squabble about who does the hard work and who gets to sit back and chew on Shaper bones.

Assuming much?

quote:
Seriously, it doesn't look good when you try to declare the argument over. It seems like you know you're beat but are trying to save face. I may be misreading your intent, but it does seem like you're giving up.
You are blind or something? It`s pointless to argue when opponent ignores your "facts" and uses double standarts.

quote:
edit: honestly can you imagine a drakon sweeping a floor
And i can`t imagine Monarch washing the toilet.

quote:
The thing is, the people like Master Thell would either adjust or be forced to do the work themselves. The Drakons would rather fight and die.
Assuming much without any "facts"?

quote:
You can't just assume that it would never happen.
So we can`t assume that Shapers wouldn`t accept dryaks but you can assume that Drakons wouldn`t do any work? Double standarts?

quote:
But emp we don’t know this.
It`s pointless, he knows better than the game.
Posts: 13 | Registered: Wednesday, January 24 2007 08:00

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