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G4 Beta testing stories (SPOILERS) in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #31
I did Mystithus after the change as a Servile and I died the first time. The images scatter after the first time I did spray crystal to determine the real one. I used crystals to track down the image each round.

As a lifecrafter with 4 hasted creations it wasn't too bad in the changed form. I misses it the first time through as a pure Rebel since I couldn't keep fighting the other creations after one calls for help.

Did anyone else go all the way to the end of the Forsaken Lands Shaper Camp? I did after starting Chapter 5 with an army of creations. Finding out about the endless source of summoned and therefore no experience creations made me not even try to get out alive after I searched the whole area.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Factions in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #1
From a strictly experience point of view being an amoral mercenary and trying to help both sides gets you access to the most quests and item rewards. You have to be careful in order to maximize this because the cost for spell training from the Shapers depends upon your current score.

Some Rebels and Shapers won't help you if your score leans too much in one direction or towards neutral.

Betray the Shapers for both of the major quest in Chapters 2 and 3 and they cut you off completely. The Rebels are somewhat more desparate and will still help you to make the next area.

The pure Rebel path will prevent you from getting several quests and make it almost impossible to visit some areas. You need to do some Shaper quests in Chapter 2 in order to gain the Aziraph Pass to visit Shaper Camp Gamma.

Doing the main quest for the Shapers in Chapter 4 will restrict access in Chapter 5 to Khima-Uss.

Update - doing too much for the Shapers can cause you not to get the Kill Infiltrators quest in Chapter 4 until you do enough for the Rebels. Thur in Chapter 2 won't join you if you have helped the Shapers too much and check out the scripts for his reactions to you helping the Shapers if he joins you first.

[ Thursday, November 23, 2006 20:05: Message edited by: Randomizer ]
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Trainers in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #1
In Chapter 3 at Rebel Camp Aziraph there is a trainer, Captain Archibald. He trains melee weapons, missle weapons, quick action, and parry.

There are some people that with enough leadership or fulfilling a quest will increase spellcraft.

The Chapter 1 training in spellcraft is expensive and usually it takes until Chapter 2 before you get enough money for both points. By then I think it's too late to sell him out for the reward from General Crowley.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Genforge 1 Factions in Geneforge Series
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #6
The walkthrough at this site will give you the information you want. You can join all the factions to milk them for their benefits by doing so one at a time.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Trainer for more living tools? in Geneforge Series
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #2
While it's possible to get by with low mechanics, having mechanic around 10 by the middle of most games will help a lot. It reduces the number of living tools that you use and will allow you to disarm traps.

Also some items will increase your mechanics and you can swap them when you just need to do locks and traps. Tinker's gloves and bauble, and infiltrator items.

[ Wednesday, November 22, 2006 17:48: Message edited by: Randomizer ]
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
A1: Demonslayer Bug? in The Avernum Trilogy
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #3
It's worse in the Windows version of Exile where the diagonal keys in the numeric keypad weren't read by the program and I had to use the mouse for all diagonal movement. You wouldn't believe how far I got before I found that diagonal movement was possible.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
SYNERGY LIST: GF4?How To Forge Stuff And What It Does in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #4
I forgot about that one. The essence infused skin is in a chest or jar in one of the summoning platform rooms. It's hard to get to since you really need to kill everything to have time to explore.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Electrified Fields in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #1
They appear to be flavor text. I tried the different dialog options with no discernible result. They give so information about Rocky Point and some other areas, but nothing useful.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
G4 Beta testing stories (SPOILERS) in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #25
For the Windswept Farm the first time I killed all but the rotgroths in stasis. Jeff made it harder after I told him that. For a lifecrafter I just plugged the door with high health creations and spine shielded them. It was easy to fire over my wall of bodies and sometimes the Eyebeast never got to flee.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Slartanalysis: Attack types in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #5
In the opening screen you see a wingbolt curled around a pillar in the upper left of center. The first time you can see one is in Chapter 2.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Slartanalysis: Creations I in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #8
I tried most of the regular creations as both a fire shaping and magic shaping lifecrafter. Fyora are the cheapest and easiest to get for starting characters with the bonus that they never run out of missle attacks.

Jeff improved it some, but kyshakks and wingbolts both suffer terribly when they run out of spell energy in long hasted fights. The wingbolt's melee attack with poison is better than the kyshakk or even a gazer.

Vlish are just a shadow of their overpowered self and I prefer an artila with a little extra essence for strength. Glaahks are okay but they are only a stop gap. Wingbolts and gazers are still great but you have to watch their spell energy to switch over to melee.

If you have helped the Shapers enough in Chapter 2 then you can gain access to Shaper Camp Gamma at the start of Chapter 3. This gives you a chance to get kyshakk and wingbolt ahead of the Rebels. By the time you could get them in Chapter 4 they already have at least 3 levels of experience.

Kyshakks are just meat shields with decent attacks. Drayk, cryodrayk, and drakon are all better for attacking although the cryodrayk can run out of spell energy.

War tralls are underpowered for their level. Unless you have a Shaper bias against barred creations go with a drakon or gazer.

Attacking the new creations -
I found that drayk does the best damage versus wingbolt for cost. Kyshakks are fairly resistant but force them into melee and they are weaker. War tralls are overgrown battle alphas and are usually destroyed in a few rounds. Drakons are the hardest to kill with the new creations so you are better off using drayks, cryodrayks, or drakons against them.

Charged creations are upgraded pyroroamers. Kill them from a distance and try to get them to provide collateral damage to monsters that are around them. In the expert area a few well placed shots can kill a whole pack so they never can attack you.

[ Wednesday, November 22, 2006 17:38: Message edited by: Randomizer ]
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Slartanalysis: Attack types in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #1
There are some special monsters in Chapter 5 that are resistant to magical and the whole FEC type group, but take physical. The Maddened trall in Valeya Ruins is the best example.

This is a list of all the creations, but some of the essence costs maybe off since they came from different betas and I didn't always remember to copy the saved game over to the current one to recheck, Battle creations have only a melee attack except for the war trall and its creation level 3 counter part, Creation level 3 monsters require a higher shaping level than the base creations.

Creations

sh lvl lvl base Int+2 missle melee
Fire shaping
Fyora 1 2 8 11 fire bite
Roamer 2 10 28 35 acid bite
Drayk 3 24 60 75 fire bite
Kyshakk 3 25 125 152 lightning aura bite
Drakon 3 32 183 fire bite

Battle shaping
Thahd 1 4 12 17 physical
Clawbug 2 10 30 39 poison
Battle alpha 3 20 55 68 physical
Rotgroth 3 28 125 152 acid
War trall 3 32 175 212 physical physical

Magic shaping
Artila 1 4 12 17 acid bite
Vlish 2 12 32 41 acid/curse magical
Glaahk 3 20 60 75 physical/stun
Wingbolt 3 28 125 152 magical poison
Gazer 3 32 180 219 energy magical

Level 3 creations

Fire shaping
Cryoa 2 7 25 32 cold bite
Pyroroamer 3 4 15 20 fire bite explode
Cryodrayk 4 28 90 111 cold bite
Burning kyshakk 5 28 160 195 lightning aura bite charged
Ur-drakon 6 35 220 267 fire bite area attack

Battle shaping
Unstable thahd 2 12 25 37 physical charged
Plate bug 3 16 50 63 poison
Battle beta 4 26 80 99 physical
Corrupted rotgroth 5 37 160 181 acid charged
Shock trall 6 33` 230 279 physical physical charged

Plated artila 2 12 40 51 acid bite
Charged vlish 3 12 75 92 acid/stun physical charged
Ur-glaahk 4 30 80 99 physical/stun
Unstable wingbolt 5 28 140 171 magical poison charged
Eyebeast 6 38 240 291 magical/stun magical
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Radiance in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #1
it's supposed to be a bonus versus undead, I'm guessing some increase in damage. I'm trying it out now on the road to the Forgotten Ones. Using all 4 items and it doesn't seem to be significantly better.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Discussion about what should go in Strategy Central in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #0
Since the game is still only been officially released yesterday it's a little early to start a Strategy Central similar to the one in GF3. Still the beta testers have enough experience to make a list of possible threads and start discussing what to call the different character styles.

I didn't know how effective terror was until I read Delicious Vlish's description. Having been underwhelmed by the earlier game versions I just used daze and destroyed everything starting with the ones that resisted.

So let's get started so we can have a central thread and several specific threads related to the five classes: warrior, servile, shock trooper, infiltrator, and lifecrafter and the different attack methods: melee, missle, spell, mental, etc.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Haakaa p??lle! in General
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #44
Extremism in defence of literacy is no vice. We must have clarity otherwise we will be overrun by chaos. Some of the questions in the game forums need to be translated before they can be answered.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Losing Your Sanity... in General
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #16
I came to meet other gamers and get information on Avernum 4. The analysis really help.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
G4 Beta testing stories (SPOILERS) in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #20
Spine shield is great for attacking golems, glaahks, and rotgroths since they do more damage to themselves then you usually can.

Mental spells are the way to go. Get them all. Daze from the start and strong daze if you can get it from the Shapers in Chapter 3. Essence shackles with mental magic at 9 will slow down the Titan to almost a crawl. Mass madness or madness gems for the group fights. In Northforge Warrens I got almost everyone to fight on my side.

Even before Jeff made them more effective I used mass madness against the Southern Sentinel to convince his enslaved cryodrayks to come over and fight for me. The madness gem in Valeya Ruins got the Guardian's creations to mostly fight amongst themselves. Most monsters will first attack charmed ones ahead of you.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
SYNERGY LIST: GF4?How To Forge Stuff And What It Does in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #1
Purified essence is located in Circle of the Drayk to southwest of the drayk after you kill him and it's hard to find the path. The other is in the Sealed Catacombs lab.

Only one essence infused hide in Khima-Uss.

Only one crystalline fibers in Matala's Workshop.

You missed -

Sunstone belt - recipe added to Grosch Pits in revised beta
perfected belt+deep focus orb+unmelting ice
Armor +14%, +40 Radiance (undead bane),
+20% Fire res, +20% Energy res

[ Tuesday, November 21, 2006 17:08: Message edited by: Randomizer ]
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Slartanalysis: Classes in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #5
There are more items to raise Fire shaping than any other shaping class. Between the Shaper's cloak (+1 in all shaping classes) and the shaping artifact (+2 in all shaping classes) it's not that hard at the end to make whatever creation that you want after Chapter 4.

Lifecrafters can easily make an army. I sent Jeff a generic lifecrafter that could wait until finishing the first 9 areas to decide upon shaping class since there is a creation available that will accompany you near the start. So you can have decent mechanics (8) and leadership (6) skills with high intelligence and shaping skills to when you choose. By Chapter 3 when you get tier 3 and 4 creations you can have shaping at 10 and intelligence over 12 for plenty of essence. Seeing a kyshakk with over 800 health in Chapter 3 is awesome since you don't need to augment him for combat.

I finished the game at level 42 with an effective 22 intelligence and fire shaping at 15 when I wanted to create. 1000+ health kyshakks and only 3 level behind drakons make a terrifying army. The creation buffing items can add 8 or more to creation strength.

Having too few creations makes it tough to run a lifecrafter. Push intelligence all through the game and it doesn't matter that your endurance is 1 for most of the game. The extra essence will make enough creations to kill most everything that you can't daze.

Serviles are almost gods in the game. Strong fighting skills and health plus almost as good magic make them nasty. You can easily switch from melee to missle as needed. They have better to hit for missle spells like essence shackles (slow) than lifecrafters or infiltrators. Shaping is weak, but you can easily get the minimum for fire shaping from equipment so all you need is essence.

Mental spells are the most important category. Starting with daze and ending with mass madness this is one category to get almost all the spells. A servile doesn't need battle magic since he can fight and blessing spells can use Captain's Shiv for +2 when needed to get the higher level spells for buffing. Some healing spells are nice to preserve pods for during combat.

I wasn't too thrilled with the Vampiric touch items but I'll wait to try the full set. You get some health back from time to time in combat.

[ Tuesday, November 21, 2006 14:44: Message edited by: Randomizer ]
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Mechanics and Leadership in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #1
Jeff thought that my mechanics at 15 in Chapter 2 was high (3 from items). High mechanics can easily add 3 to 4 levels to your character and reduce the rate of using living tools. It takes more mechanics to replace one living tool than in previous games.

The highest locked/trapped chest in Chapter 1 is difficulty 12 but mechanics of 8 will do nicely for starting out in Southforge Citadel to get most items except for a difficulty 10 and 12 chest in Upper Southforge Citadel. The highest difficulty chests in Chapter 2 are also 12.

I found in replaying the game that mechanics 10 was the maximum needed level using skill points. There is a canister for mechanics and enough items to raise Mechanics to effective 17.

In Chapter 2 you need mechanics of 10 and items can raise it to 14 which is the highest difficulty needed in Eliza's Bunker. Tinker's gloves (mechanics +2) are available in Chapter 2 and 3. There is a difficulty 12 trapped chest that allows you to steal an Infiltrator's tunic (mechanic+1). Tinker's bauble (mechanic +1) is a quest reward in Chapter 2 and buy from Shapers in Chapter 4. Infiltrator's cloak (mechanic +1) is in Thornton an area that is hard to explore unless you help the Shapers.

Chapter 4 has a canister and the Infiltrator's charm (mechanics +1). Chapter 5 gives you the last part of the artifact Cloak of Shadows (mechanics +2) but there is much need for it by then.

You can use mechanic at level 17 to shut off power spirals in the Titan's Hall but you can avoid the damage with only 14 and some care.

The highest difficulty trap is 30 in Northern Grosch and Grosch Pits. You'll find out how to get that high when you are there and it really isn't worth it except for completeness.

Leadership of 8 seems to be fine and the Infiltrator's tunic and cloak can raise it to help. You need leadership of 5 in Southforge Citadel. Leadership 6 for Chickweed Bridge. Leadership 7 in Chapter 2 and to recruit in Chapter 3. I think Leadership of at least 8 for the rest of the game. If you get a control baton then you need at least leadership 7 to effectively use it.

There is supposed to be an Infiltrator's shelter in I think Chapter 5.

[ Tuesday, November 21, 2006 14:21: Message edited by: Randomizer ]
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
W.T.N.T.B.D. in General
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #4
See you back here soon. You won't regret buying GF4 since your favorite guardian equivalent is better than ever.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
G4 Beta testing stories (SPOILERS) in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #15
In hasted mode under the new combat system you can attack, use 1 or 2 items at 3AP each and then attack again. So for instance you can daze, attack with a crystal or use a pod/spore, and attack anything that wasn't dazed. The retreating after an attack is still possible if you only use crystals but there aren't as many as in earlier games.

The old tactics still work but you need to modify them. Also batons were restored to their former deadliness so it's easy to do over 100 points in damage with moderate dexterity and missle weapons skill.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Items to Keep in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #3
Most of the items for artifact recipes are valued at 0 so you can't sell them. The only ones that will give you trouble are the quest items since not all the ones from previous games are needed this time.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
G4 Beta testing stories (SPOILERS) in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #8
I reran the Monarch fight as a servile and missle attacks are slow but sure way to kill him. I tried melee to speed it up and found that he repeatedly slowed me so the fight was a lot closer than usual.

My first lifecrafter barely finished the game because he used almost every essence pod up in chapters 3 and 4. I found the revisions to chapter 5 helpful since I could replay most of 4 and all of 5 and conserve essence pods to slowly let me play more of the game.

Mental spells are way more powerful than they used to be. Essence shackles when you can hit can slow even the Titan to barely an attack, Mass madness can switch most of your enemies over to your side and make fighting armies relatively painless.

[ Tuesday, November 21, 2006 02:12: Message edited by: Randomizer ]
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Episode 3: A New Game in General
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #602
I'm more inclined to go with the face saving viewpoint. Still it might be true. Only the next chapter will tell, although that is more likely to be about the other forums.

Ephesos - I think death or near death has changed you. After all you got worked up enough about it in this thread.

I'm happy to be getting more lines as a faithful mage flunky to the establsihment. It beats element summoning in Episode 2. Although this will probably mean less time than ET will get with his plots to take over the boards.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00

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