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Singleton party in Avernum 4
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #95
Singletons in Torment

Damaging monsters is faster than using a herringbone, but you have to use spells and the right one to maximize damage by matching type. I spend a lot of time going back to recharge.

I finally got all my singetons through the Tower Colony. After finding since the start 10 Wisdom Crystals/Knowledge Brews (including the one behind the Dispel barrier in the honeycomb).

HumanPSEW is at level 30, Nephil PSDT and NMDT are at 28. Natural mage meant I can use more armor options and boost armor to 101.

I like the extra damage of the Oozing Blade but have gone with the Ghostly Knife for its defense abilities and lower weight. I've been using the Girdle of Avoidance (DEX+2) to boost dodging. The Crystal Talisman and Incantor's Ring have given my PS singletons two extra levels of mage spells so I'll cap them at mage spell level 9.

Now it's on to Almaria and R-I's trap. This will give me levels to boost dodging in my PS's and finally get resistance in my NM.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
2 questions - Camping and quick looting in Avernum 4
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #4
Be glad you have more slots and no maximum weight encumberance. At least you can haul everything of value back without having to watch the weight.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Singleton party in Avernum 4
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #91
Try fighting Nodicaus with a singleton before leaving the Eastern Gallery. You can't dodge his attacks and there are only so many invulnerability potions available. That is a real challenge to do it without burning up too many magic items.

The game isn't as hard for a singleton as Jeff would like, but you have to make sacrifices that restrict what you can do during the game. No looting every cache until the end when all they are good for is extra money and knowledge brews.

Torment mode gives the monsters a decent chance of hitting you as opposed to easy where you can just stand there a kill monsters leisurely.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Coolest thing about Avernum 4? in Avernum 4
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #11
I like that the magic system brought back area effects. In A1 to A3 the only way to truly hit an invisible monster was with a fighter and they were hard to locate without being hit by them.

Now if Jeff will bring back Exile's Shockwave to replace Arcane Blow the mages will have an attack like Divine Retribuion. This will keep spellcasters and archers from hanging back from combat.

The unlimited arrows for bows unbalances the game. It just is worth training in thrown weapons because they weigh so much for a little extra damage. I only used the razordisks versus Nodicaus because a nephil divine touch can do almost as much damage as lightning spray.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Character Choices in Avernum 4
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #2
I agree that there should be more choices even if we use the old graphics.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Minor Bug? in Avernum 4
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #1
Check the job board in Formello. Scavenging rats are one of the jobs. They repopulate in certain storerooms.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Rate Avernum 4. in Avernum 4
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #10
I'll give it an 8 because the spell system brought back true area effects and they don't zap friendly party members like in Exile. The game does run too much like Genforge and the singleton games pretty much devolve into shaper, guardian, or agent style of play.

I miss the puzzles and especially the mind ones in Exile where you had to think and not just hack. The money limit (no carrysomething from where it is cheap to expensive) also forces you to prioritize what you buy so you can never max out something for the entire party.

I hope A5 goes back to A1 and 2 in that you have more choice in what you do next instead of this forced linearized plot line. At least in the Eastern Gallery you can choose a path until you are ready to slay Nodicaus.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Singleton party in Avernum 4
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #84
Singletons in Torment

After reading this topic, I decided to try one of my own in torment mode. This has eventually become three different singletons with each one emphasizing a something.

The first was a human pure spirit elite warrior (HPSEW) with only a 30% experience penalty. I thought that this would give me more levels than Synergy's nephil divine touched elite warrior. It appears that this will only give 3 or 4 more levels at the end.

The second was a nephil pure spirit divine touch (NPSDT) with a 55% penalty and damage avoidance through dodging. He still gets hit, but I think that is a result of torment mode. Boosting dodging means sacrificing spell levels and arcane lore.

The third was a nephil natural mage divine touch (NNMDT) where I tried for damage resistance through hardiness with the goal to get resistance skill and damage resistances above 100%.

I wanted to get Dispel Barrier and other spellbooks so I bought Arcane Lore from Cecil in Cotra and trained with 10 skill points in the Eastern Gallery to get Arcane Lore 6. This gave me Smite, Cure Poison, Haste, Unlock doors, Minor Heal and Heal, Enduring Shield (2 levels), augmentation, and Lightning Spray. After Tower Colony and 8 more skill points I now have Arcane Lore at 8 and went back to get another Heal, Repel Spirit, Summon Shade, Unshackle Mind, Call Beast, Minor Summoning, Mass Healing, Terror, and Prismatic Shield. Going up to Arcane Lore 12 will have to wait.

First Aid is not worth training and Nature Lore will have to wait until the end. At Nature Lore 15 (2 bought in Fort Duvno, 1 in Fort Dranlon quest, Explorer ring for 2 more, and 10 trianed at 30 skill points) there should be enough ingrdients in caches to generate more Knowledge brews than I used up to get there.

Tool use needs to be trained to level 8 in order to open all doors and locked boxes around Fort Monastary and Grindstone. I usually started with 5 to get a most of the places at the start. Tinker's Bauble and Gloves give 3 more levels, but I will need to raise it again after Alamira to a natural 12. Open Doors spell helps if you have enough health points to survive the traps. For instance under Grindstone needs 60 to get to the piercing crystals and Skunky Joe's needs about 80.

That all the different singletons have survived shows that it is the player's style that should determine the form. I relied on spell damage to get rid of monsters and used weapons only against much weaker monsters that could't hit me. Summoned Shades helped against Hrickis and I couldn't have defeated Nodicaus without them. Otherwise I had to find the most effective damaging spell type versus the monster to slay it without running out of spell points. For example, spellcasters tend to waste time if you slow them and then damage them with Acid Spray.

This will give you some indication of what the singletons can look like and how many levels they will have as they progress. I would do it a little differently if I did this again. I was too slow building up dodge ability in my NPSDT.

The initial singletons were:
All started with Mage Spells 5 and Priest Spells 5

HPSEW - Strength 2, Dexterity 3, Intelligence 2, Endurance 4, Spellcraft 1, Tool Use 5,and Luck 1

NPSDT - Str 2, Dex 2, Int 2, End 5, TU 8

NNMDT - Str 2, Dex 6, Int 2, End 3, Luck 1

I found that Blademaster 2 at Str 2 allows you to slap a goblin for 10 to 11 points damage with your bare hand. I ran out of spellpoints when I was suprised by a goblin and slapped him to death. You shouldn't sell all your weapons to buy spell before getting the Shielding Knife.

When you have EW instead of DT you need Spellcraft to makeup for not getting Magery. EW does increase carrying capacity and give you parry to block damage.

Entering the Eastern Gallery after using 5 Wisdom Crystals/Knowledge Brews:

HPSEW is at level 16 - Str 2, Dex 6, Int 4, End 5, Mage 6, Priest 7, Spellcraft 5, TU 8, Luck 4

NPSEW is at level 15 - Str 2, Dex 5, Int 6, End 6, Mage 6, Priest 7, TU 8, Luck 4

NNMDT is at level 15- Str 2, Dex 7, Int 5, End 6, Mage 7, Priest 6, TU 8, Luck 2

Leaving the Eastern gallery after 2 more WC/KB and buying and quest rewards Nature Lore and First Aid 3:

HPSEW is at level 25 - Str 2, Dex 7, Int 5, End 5, Mage 7, Priest 9, Spellcraft 5, Arcane Lore 5, Hardiness 2, Defense 7, TU 8, Luck 4

NPSDT is at level 23 - Str 2, Dex 7, Int 6, End 6, Mage 8, Priest 8, Spellcraft 2, Arcane Lore 6, Hardiness 2, Defense 3, TU 8, Luck 4

NNMDT is at level 24 - Str 2, Dex 8, Int 5, End 8, Mage 9, Priest 7, Spellcraft 2, Arcane Lore 6, Hardiness 6, Defense 1, TU 8, Luck 2

The extra level appears to be because having Lightning Spray earlier I went after the Sliths across from Fort Dranlon a few levels earlier to get more experience points for the encounters. I didn't have enough money to get an extra level in Defense.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Quick Note About Graphics in Avernum 4
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #39
I didn't get A4 for the graphics. I wouldn't mind going back to A3 graphics if it would speed up production of A5 after Gen4 is released.

Having started with text based games like Crothers and Woods' Adventure, graphics are nice but not necessary. A lot of the first games like Ultima, Wizardry, and Might and Magic had static graphics but great plots and gaming systems.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Windows version in Avernum 4
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #61
I preordered A4 Mac version when I saw it was coming out. I just sent a check for the CD and hint book. That way it came in the mail when Jeff was ready and I didn't have to keep checking the news. Of course I had to download the revised version and patch.

I wouldn't send in too early and you do have the delay in shipping.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
A4 Bugs in Avernum 4
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #68
In version 1.0.2, it is now possible to get and use Enduring Shield (priest spell level 6) at only priest level 5 in Formello. It's a nice bonus but it never happened in the early versions.

The mangy cur near Fort Monastary now no longer follows you after the first time that you feed him.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Moral dilemmas in Avernum 4
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #18
I was watching a game of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons (2nd Ed.) where a good aligned party was slaughtering a clan of mountain dwarfs in their lair. Another watcher asked the player running a good cleric why they were doing it.

The cleric said, "Because they're evil." The Gamemaster pointed to the monster manual page where it showed the alignment was lawful good.

The watcher so that and asked, "Are you sure that they're evil?"

The cleric said, "Of course they're evil. They're keeping us from they're treasure, aren't they."

That type of philosophy help me get through most of these types of quests. The need for experience and treasure overrides moral considerations most of the time,
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
buying of avernum 4 in Avernum 4
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #4
I ordered the CD when I saw the game was coming out. If I had known that the revisions would appear so soon, I would have downloaded the demo and waited on buying. But at least one more sale will encourage the next game after the Windows version is debugged.

The demo is fun, but you reach the end soon enough and with Avernum 4 there isn't even the possibilty of random encounters.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Moral dilemmas in Avernum 4
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #16
The adventurers near the Bandit Keep are mentioned by Corin as an earlier hire when you get the quest. If you are careful you can move around them from the north to explore the south and west sides to loot the two bodies. Approaching form the west lets you get some more stuff.

Jeff ought to restore the reputation from earlier Avernum games but use it for morality. Then you can choose to play the game as good or evil with your actions tied to that choice. The major quests would still be there but given by different people and for different reasons and rewards. The evil side would be eliminating a future competitor. In A4 that would mean eliminating the shades as bad for business, etc.

Also there could be some quests that could only be done by good or evil. This would make for a different game for each type.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Spellbooks and Arcane Lore-Dispel Barrier is AL 5 in Avernum 4
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #7
Here is the update to the spellboks with the original message clarified. I haven't been able to find this info in the scripts, so I had to do it by reading each book when I find them.

For the total party Arcane Lore level you can read the following spellbooks. PC means a piercing crystal is needed for the barrier blocking access. DB means only Dispel Barrier will work.

Arcane Lore 3
Smite - Fort Draco under Hrnak's potion shop as reward for slaying hellhound.

Arcane Lore 4
Cure Poison - Forello upstairs in church
Icy Rain - Motrax's cave lower level in SE corner after defeating Kravit-Bok
Smite - Metris under church
Unlock Door - Bandit Ruins in Eastern Gallery upstairs NE corner after defeating Hanvar

Arcane Lore 5
Daze - Lord Bragg's goblin castle lower level E side behind barrier (PC)
Haste - Hrickis upper level after defeating him.
Enduring Shield - Fort Duvno upstairs in Walner's shop
Enduring Shield - Eastern Gallery under Reptile Island after defeating dragon
Dispel Barrier - Tower Colony upstairs above Kelner as reward for slaying demon

Arcane Lore 6
Minor Heal and Heal - Bandit Ruins in Eastern Gallery upstairs in NW corner above lizards (PC)
Lightning Spray - Skunky Joe's hideout in NE part of Eastern Gallery

Arcane Lore 8
Heal - West Cotra Potionary store in backroom
Mass Healing - Eastern Gallery Chitrach tunnels north of Fort Dranlon access and then east past cavewindow spiders and undead (PC)
Minor Summoning and Call Beast - Eastern Gallery Chitrach tunnels north of Fort Dranlon access and then west past Aranea and in NE corner
Repel Spirit, Summon Shade, and Unshackle Mind - Nodicuas beyond bedroom
Steel Skin - Tower Colony upstairs west staircase SE corner door after defeating demon to get key from Kelner (DB)
Terror - Bandit Keep in Honeycomb lower level north side after defeating bandits
Prismatic Shield - Tower Colony main level in X's ruined office (DB)
Lightning Spray and Mass Healing - Athron's Lair (PC) and Mertris Spiral quest completed

Arcane Lore 10
Mass Curing and Mass Healing - Tower Colony upper level west staircase NW corner beyond lost automation and slimes (DB)

Arcane 12
Prismatic Shield - Fort Avernum after getting Whispering Shard
Summon Aid - Athron's Lair (PC)
Fireblast - Tower Colony upper level west staircase in center near lost automaton and demon room

For singleton parties it is possible to get Arcane Lore up to level 8 in the Eastern Gallery without hurting your other abilities. It helps to buy two levels in either Formello or Cotra and then it only requires 18 more skill points.

[ Saturday, March 25, 2006 09:32: Message edited by: Randomizer ]
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
A4 Causing Crashes in Tech Support
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #7
I have an iBook G4 with 1.25 GByte memory. I get screen freezes requiring a full reboot with no other programs running. It seems to be worst when I put the computer to sleep for a quick break although it sometimes happens just as I move the cursor. It has gotten better with A4 version 1.0.1 beta.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Spellbooks and Arcane Lore-Dispel Barrier is AL 5 in Avernum 4
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #5
After reading the whole post on running a singleton and how Synergy tried but forgot about Dispel Barrier only being obtainable from a spellbook, I wanted to try it myself. Playing in torment mode I finally reached the Tower Colony and got to the book. I was suprised that my Arcane Lore level 8 character could read it when level 12 is needed at Fort Avernum. So I got a different singleton that had completed the Eastern Gallery and ran him down through the demon encounter to find that AL 5 would work. Then I hunted through old files to find I had an AL 2 singleton that I could use. I finished the quest and trained him up until I could read the book and confirm that it was AL 5.

I spent several hours tracking down the minimum Arcane Lore level total for a party to read each spellbook, There is one book in Athron's Lair and two upperstairs in the Tower Colony near the demon's room that need between 9 and 12 to be read. It will
be a few more days before my party of four will have completed the Mertis Spiral and Tower Colony so I can find out what they are and their levels.

I am sorry for the misunderstanding, but I wrote this after a sleepless night of playing in order to get the information out to anyone wanting to try a singleton party. It doesn't pay to get Arcane Lore until the end of the Eastern Gallery. The best spells are Unlock Door, Minor Heal, Heal, and Lightning Spray.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Spellbooks and Arcane Lore-Dispel Barrier is AL 5 in Avernum 4
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #3
AL 3 means Arcane Lore 3 which costs 2 bought levels and one level trained with 2 skill points (or if you have the 7 points just train up). This is the total level needed in the party, so the cost is less if spread out over more than one person. I am sorry for the confusion.

If you are running a singleton, most people hold up on raising arcane lore since they think you need level 12 to get the all important Dispel Barrier. There are a lot of useful spells available for a singleton including Steel Skin that can be gotten before it can be bought,

I forgot to include a AL 8 Prismatic Shield that is available in Tower Colony in X's old office behind a dispel barrrier only barrier.

I left off some information about locations so people would have to do some work to find them.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Spellbooks and Arcane Lore-Dispel Barrier is AL 5 in Avernum 4
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #0
After days of running singletons around to different spellbooks, I have compiled the following list of spellbooks, locations, and arcane lore level needed to learn. For those of us running singletons, especially in torment mode, this means that Dispel Barrier is available at AL 5 (two levels bought and 7 skill points).

PC means piercing crystal required to reach spellbook
DB means dispel barrier required

AL Spell Location

3 Smite Fort Dunvo
3 Smite Mertis

4 Cure Poison Formello
4 Icy Rain Motrax Caves
4 Unlock Door Bandit Ruins (Hanvar)

5 Haste Hrickis
5 Daze Lord Bragg - PC
5 Enduring Shield Fort Dunvo and Reptile Island - Dragon

6 Lightning Spray Skunky Joe and Athron's Cave - PC
6 Minor Heal & Heal Bandit Ruins (Hanvar) - PC
6 Augmentation Eastern Gallery - NE Chitrach tunnels

8 Heal West Cotra - Potionary
8 Mass Healing Eastern Gallery - NW Chitrach tunnels after undead
8 Minor Summoning & Call Beast
Eastern Gallert - NW Chitrach tunnels after aranea
8 Repel Spirit, Animate Dead & Unshackle Mind
Nodiacus
8 Terror Bandit Keep - Honeycomb
8 Steel Skin Tower Colony - DB and key from Kelner

12 Prismatic Shield Fort Avernum

also at AL 12 I think another Prismatic Shield, Summon Aid, and Fireblast are available between the third box in Athron's Lair and behind DB barriers in Tower Colony.

It takes 18 skill points and two bought levels to reach AL 8
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
A4 Bugs in Avernum 4
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #45
First there is a design flaw. If you are using a laptop, F3 and F4 are reserved for sound control.

Second, Elite Warrior adds to strength at a moderate rate, but this only appears in the carrying capacity.

In version 1.0.1 beta, Hrickris appears as soon as you attack the skeletons on level 2. He slows you through the wall.
If you are in fight mode some of the messages appear at the wrong times. Eastern Gallery - young ogres' message never appears asking for money.
Submission fungi and spraying plants are only damaged if you are in their attack range in spite of the damage message,

In the original CD version:
Nodiacus can shoot through walls. He nailed my singleton hiding in the altar room with the door closed.
Eastern Gallery - Chitrach queen room - while waiting for an egg sac to hatch, it said, "Pit Ghoul waits"
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00

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