Singleton party
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Monday, January 2 2006 16:00
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quote:Which is why I am making a duo. I have no desire to be bummed out. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Monday, January 2 2006 16:08
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Well, I'm not saying I am disappointed with my game. It's been a lot of fun, gratifying, and remarkably successful. There is something really appealing to me about only operating one character at all times. What has been disappointing are the details I have forgotten before I got there...barrier locations, and the fact that Dispel Barrier comes from a spellbook, and not teaching by Kelner. Those have been two big Oops in my game, to no ill effect, but to my annoyance. I would strategize my PC construct differently knowing what I know now. Thing is, I'm not sure what that is now, because of the need for Arcane Lore and Mage Spells high enough to get Dispel Barrier. I'd have to rethink this now. -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Monday, January 2 2006 16:11
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Well, I have some doubts, but could a pure mage with no priest spells make it through the game? Seems like it might work. Of course, that means dealing with Arcane Blow and it's stupifying 25 damage. Oooh! Aaah! Bah! -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Monday, January 2 2006 16:36
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If you don't mind waiting a bit, you can get 3 points in Mage Spells just from equipment. That means only buying 8 points, which is doable. Heck, I've already bought 6 for Unlock, so maybe I will end up getting Dispel Barrier after all. Certainly it's worth it, if you get 15 knowledge brews out of the deal, and perhaps some extra equipment on top of that. Someone else said they had about 35 brews at the end of their game, which suggests Nature Lore gets you about 20 brews. 40 skill points is only about 12-14 points of Nature Lore, though, so it seems like Nature Lore is a losing proposition for singletons after all. Bummer. Are there any other cool items buried in the dirt, besides the Heartstrike Bow? Update, btw, on my singleton: I just got Enduring Shield -- I forgot you could get that in Formello! Everything has become ridiculously easy now. Even missiles have very low hit chances against me now, turrets for example at about 10%. (Excuse me... not turrets, "fungi.") -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Wednesday, January 4 2006 08:15
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Well, my singleton adventure has drawn to a close, and I can now officially state that a singleton game is entirely doable, at least on Easy level. I think Normal would have been nearly as easy. I think Torment would be a challenge...mostly of one’s patience, if nothing else. Just whittling away that insanely rock-like Vahnatai Lord in Rentar’s Keep at the end is more annoying that anything else, especially since his Terror spells overrule Mindshield scrolls about 1/3 - 1/2 of the time, at least with my singleton’s relatively low intelligence. The only thing that does any significant damage to him really is Smite. Even worse, though, is the Vanhnatoi Rentar summons at the end. Not even worth the bother trying to kill it as NOTHING does above about 10 damage to it. I was just shy of Level 45 at the conclusion. I had 24 Blademaster and 17 Magery from DT/EW, 11 Bows and 14 Sharpshooter. For all four of these, all but two of each came as free bonuses. I had 3 Blademaster bonuses from gear, which means DT/EW give 19 Blademaster levels to a singleton by level 44. I was doing some terrific, er, wonderful, er awesome damage with melee, unlike any previous game where I thought melee was a bit wimpy. Spells all worked fine at two levels only, though I did notice some of them wearing off more often than normally with higher levels. With Tool Use 11, I was able to unlock a difficulty 28 door. The giant fight in the Dark Lands which Thuryl (I think) was concerned about, my singleton was so rock-like, that even the one turn they got to chuck a few stones at him did little damage. By four rounds of DIVINE FIRE!!! they were no more. That was especially gratifying, watching all those bodies drop at once. It took a long time to kill the Hakaai at the bridge. I also destroyed every last pylon before going into the Keep, in a vain attempt to gain one more level. I kept one Vahnatai escort alive up to the Mindreaper Lich just before facing You Know Who in the final chamber. I suppose if I had tried a little harder, I could have had company in the final fight too, but it really was almost more bother than help. I used a hella lot of Energy potions for the last set of battles, making up something like 30 of them when I found I couldn’t get to Craftmaster Strine without Dispel Barrier. I had a Divine Retribution field day. I used 2 or 3 Invulnerability potions in all of the last battles in total, but didn’t really need to use any. It was quite fun playing with a singleton, but having to sacrifice two or three skills to make him work is kind ofa drag. Tool Use, Arcane Lore, Nature Lore...two of these are going to suffer or be axed entirely to make it work Maybe Slarty will prove otherwise, but getting Arcane Lore and Mage Spells high enough to get Dispel Barrier means Tool Use and Nature Lore almost surely have to be left behind. I wouldn’t want to play without Dispel Barrier as a singleton again. It would be nice to get at a lot of those other spellbooks with the Arcane Lore necessary to get Dispel Barrier too. Caches are dispensible. They mostly contain herbs, crystals, helms, and the occasional piercing stones, and maybe a wisdom crystal or two...oh yes, and one with zero Arcane Lore requirements under Patrick’s Tower which amusingly enough contains a skull, heh. Nice touch, Jeff. Too bad it didn’t talk or otherwise entertain me. I think that I will try a duo game next, on Torment, like Vlish is trying. I want to be able to do everything in the game if I’m going to play once more. Eventually, someone will do Singleton on Torment. I see no reason it can’t be done. My nephil is pretty tired after doing so much by himself. He’s relaxing in semi-retirement at the Geyser Inn now with a very nice female nephil who hangs on his every word by the fireplace on cold evenings. Mrrrrrrrrr. [ Wednesday, January 04, 2006 08:25: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Wednesday, January 4 2006 10:09
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Grats on finishing. *cheers* -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Wednesday, January 4 2006 10:18
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Thanks! I'll watch with interest how your singleton venture progresses. Do keep us updated. -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Wednesday, January 4 2006 12:23
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My torment game is like chiseling away at a mountain with a needle. I'm doing it, but damn. Two people are just not producing enough damage for it to be done in a timely manner. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Board Administrator
Member # 1
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written Tuesday, January 10 2006 13:25
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Very interesting stuff. Thanks for posting that report. I am happy that singletons are workable with lots of care and thought. It's one way for the really jaded, super-skilled Avernum players to still find a challenge. - Jeff Vogel -------------------- Official Board Admin spidweb@spiderwebsoftware.com Posts: 960 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Thursday, March 2 2006 18:30
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Singletons in Torment After reading this topic, I decided to try one of my own in torment mode. This has eventually become three different singletons with each one emphasizing a something. The first was a human pure spirit elite warrior (HPSEW) with only a 30% experience penalty. I thought that this would give me more levels than Synergy's nephil divine touched elite warrior. It appears that this will only give 3 or 4 more levels at the end. The second was a nephil pure spirit divine touch (NPSDT) with a 55% penalty and damage avoidance through dodging. He still gets hit, but I think that is a result of torment mode. Boosting dodging means sacrificing spell levels and arcane lore. The third was a nephil natural mage divine touch (NNMDT) where I tried for damage resistance through hardiness with the goal to get resistance skill and damage resistances above 100%. I wanted to get Dispel Barrier and other spellbooks so I bought Arcane Lore from Cecil in Cotra and trained with 10 skill points in the Eastern Gallery to get Arcane Lore 6. This gave me Smite, Cure Poison, Haste, Unlock doors, Minor Heal and Heal, Enduring Shield (2 levels), augmentation, and Lightning Spray. After Tower Colony and 8 more skill points I now have Arcane Lore at 8 and went back to get another Heal, Repel Spirit, Summon Shade, Unshackle Mind, Call Beast, Minor Summoning, Mass Healing, Terror, and Prismatic Shield. Going up to Arcane Lore 12 will have to wait. First Aid is not worth training and Nature Lore will have to wait until the end. At Nature Lore 15 (2 bought in Fort Duvno, 1 in Fort Dranlon quest, Explorer ring for 2 more, and 10 trianed at 30 skill points) there should be enough ingrdients in caches to generate more Knowledge brews than I used up to get there. Tool use needs to be trained to level 8 in order to open all doors and locked boxes around Fort Monastary and Grindstone. I usually started with 5 to get a most of the places at the start. Tinker's Bauble and Gloves give 3 more levels, but I will need to raise it again after Alamira to a natural 12. Open Doors spell helps if you have enough health points to survive the traps. For instance under Grindstone needs 60 to get to the piercing crystals and Skunky Joe's needs about 80. That all the different singletons have survived shows that it is the player's style that should determine the form. I relied on spell damage to get rid of monsters and used weapons only against much weaker monsters that could't hit me. Summoned Shades helped against Hrickis and I couldn't have defeated Nodicaus without them. Otherwise I had to find the most effective damaging spell type versus the monster to slay it without running out of spell points. For example, spellcasters tend to waste time if you slow them and then damage them with Acid Spray. This will give you some indication of what the singletons can look like and how many levels they will have as they progress. I would do it a little differently if I did this again. I was too slow building up dodge ability in my NPSDT. The initial singletons were: All started with Mage Spells 5 and Priest Spells 5 HPSEW - Strength 2, Dexterity 3, Intelligence 2, Endurance 4, Spellcraft 1, Tool Use 5,and Luck 1 NPSDT - Str 2, Dex 2, Int 2, End 5, TU 8 NNMDT - Str 2, Dex 6, Int 2, End 3, Luck 1 I found that Blademaster 2 at Str 2 allows you to slap a goblin for 10 to 11 points damage with your bare hand. I ran out of spellpoints when I was suprised by a goblin and slapped him to death. You shouldn't sell all your weapons to buy spell before getting the Shielding Knife. When you have EW instead of DT you need Spellcraft to makeup for not getting Magery. EW does increase carrying capacity and give you parry to block damage. Entering the Eastern Gallery after using 5 Wisdom Crystals/Knowledge Brews: HPSEW is at level 16 - Str 2, Dex 6, Int 4, End 5, Mage 6, Priest 7, Spellcraft 5, TU 8, Luck 4 NPSEW is at level 15 - Str 2, Dex 5, Int 6, End 6, Mage 6, Priest 7, TU 8, Luck 4 NNMDT is at level 15- Str 2, Dex 7, Int 5, End 6, Mage 7, Priest 6, TU 8, Luck 2 Leaving the Eastern gallery after 2 more WC/KB and buying and quest rewards Nature Lore and First Aid 3: HPSEW is at level 25 - Str 2, Dex 7, Int 5, End 5, Mage 7, Priest 9, Spellcraft 5, Arcane Lore 5, Hardiness 2, Defense 7, TU 8, Luck 4 NPSDT is at level 23 - Str 2, Dex 7, Int 6, End 6, Mage 8, Priest 8, Spellcraft 2, Arcane Lore 6, Hardiness 2, Defense 3, TU 8, Luck 4 NNMDT is at level 24 - Str 2, Dex 8, Int 5, End 8, Mage 9, Priest 7, Spellcraft 2, Arcane Lore 6, Hardiness 6, Defense 1, TU 8, Luck 2 The extra level appears to be because having Lightning Spray earlier I went after the Sliths across from Fort Dranlon a few levels earlier to get more experience points for the encounters. I didn't have enough money to get an extra level in Defense. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Thursday, March 2 2006 18:43
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Is beating the demo with a singleton worth bragging about in any way? Because I'm not likely to register. EDIT: On Torment, of course. [ Thursday, March 02, 2006 18:45: Message edited by: Ash Lael ] -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Thursday, March 2 2006 19:03
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My impression is that it is not. It doesn't get hard until the clawbugs in the Eastern Gallery, and that's past the demo barrier. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Thursday, March 2 2006 19:12
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Yes, the bugs are bad. Did anybody bring the Raid? -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Thursday, March 2 2006 20:29
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Okay. I'll have to do it without magic or only using one hand or something... -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Friday, March 3 2006 14:11
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Or just make it your goal to loot every cache and dispel every barrier. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Friday, March 3 2006 14:17
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I don't think there's any way to truly make the beginning difficult short of not spending any skill points whatsoever. —Alorael, who has managed the normal difficulty demo handily with no casters, all mages, all priests, and all archers. It would be tougher on torment, but he's not amazingly skilled like a certain Ash. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Saturday, March 4 2006 04:02
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Try fighting Nodicaus with a singleton before leaving the Eastern Gallery. You can't dodge his attacks and there are only so many invulnerability potions available. That is a real challenge to do it without burning up too many magic items. The game isn't as hard for a singleton as Jeff would like, but you have to make sacrifices that restrict what you can do during the game. No looting every cache until the end when all they are good for is extra money and knowledge brews. Torment mode gives the monsters a decent chance of hitting you as opposed to easy where you can just stand there a kill monsters leisurely. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Saturday, March 4 2006 06:33
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quote:Torment Mode does a heck of a lot more than that. Some enemies... It's like chopping down the mightiest tree in the forest... With a herring! -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 6670
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written Saturday, March 4 2006 08:55
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I'm so sad; no more Nephil archer on Torment. In BoA, it was Nephil archer with Fast on Feet & Brittle Bones, with a disgusting amount of DEX, Bows, and Sharpshooter. Worked pretty good (APF was weird though). I change him to FoF & Deadeye in A4, and I'm feeling pretty good after mowing down a couple goblins. Then I run into baddies I can't drop in one shot. Stupid eight moves per round. Stupid changing Attacks of Opportunity into "slowing down" (NO! 9AP -> 1AP!). I renounce all claims I made on how I liked the new combat system. Oh well. Maybe I'll try "Hard" instead of "Torment". Hmmm. I'll continue the trend with MP. -------------------- ANOTHER SHUBBERY!!! - The Knights who say Ni (Quest for the Holy Grail) Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Saturday, March 4 2006 09:20
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quote:New combat system is different, but not bad. It forces you to play tactically on higher difficulties. Run and gun is just as important as before. Archery is, still, hands down, the most powerful combat skill in the game, for reasons that will be made all to clear later. Oh, and try Divinely Touched on a nephil. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Saturday, March 4 2006 15:30
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Singletons in Torment Damaging monsters is faster than using a herringbone, but you have to use spells and the right one to maximize damage by matching type. I spend a lot of time going back to recharge. I finally got all my singetons through the Tower Colony. After finding since the start 10 Wisdom Crystals/Knowledge Brews (including the one behind the Dispel barrier in the honeycomb). HumanPSEW is at level 30, Nephil PSDT and NMDT are at 28. Natural mage meant I can use more armor options and boost armor to 101. I like the extra damage of the Oozing Blade but have gone with the Ghostly Knife for its defense abilities and lower weight. I've been using the Girdle of Avoidance (DEX+2) to boost dodging. The Crystal Talisman and Incantor's Ring have given my PS singletons two extra levels of mage spells so I'll cap them at mage spell level 9. Now it's on to Almaria and R-I's trap. This will give me levels to boost dodging in my PS's and finally get resistance in my NM. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Tuesday, March 14 2006 18:28
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Well after a lot of cutting with a herringbone and three days lost when I overwrote a character's file, I got all three singletons across the Sulphorous Flats, through the inadequate trap, cleared Camp Samuels, reached the Castle, and visited the nicer parts of Almaria. All that only got me two more levels. Heading south to get rid of two more bandits and the fourth test pushed them up another one. I'm putting the human PS EW and nephil NM DT on hold for now. The first is being hampered by not having the intelligence to boost magery for a few more levels so my damage is less than I would like. The Natural Mage is going to need almost every point in his remaining levels to get priest spell up to 15 and tool use over 12. I need an accurate count of the number of wisdom crystals and knowledge brews that I can get before confronting the shades, Meanwhile the nephil PS DT is slogging his way through the slith lands for extra money. I can't buy anymore spells until I get more spell levels. I'm using up more energy potions than I want to when I get swarmed. Fight and retreat to town for recharges is going to be very boring. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Monday, March 27 2006 14:26
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Singleton in Torment Well I finally had enough time to run my Nephil PS DT through the Great Cave and adjacent areas. I'm now going through the tunnels west of Fort Remote. I reached level 38 and have used 23 wisdom crystals/knowledge brews. Missed 2 crystals because I haven't found a fine waveblade for Grall-Ihnro's quest. Haven't used the 5 crystals/brews that are marked NY. I'll save sangging those for later. At this point I've got a strength 4, dexterity 8, intelligence 6, endurance 8, melee weapons 2, bow 10, thrown weapons 10, quick action 2, mage 9, priest 14, arcane lore 12 (I want spells), spellcraft 2, hardiness 3, defense 5, tool use 12, nature lore 3, first aid 3, luck 5, quickstrike 2, blademaster 10, gymnastics 4, magery 13, resistance 2, magical efficeincy 8, and sharpshooter 12. I found that pylons are worth 9 to 10 experience at level 25 and drop to 4 for level 38. Oh well, at least the provide nice treasure. Next post will be after the Basalt Fortress and the shades. I'll have enough to get another priest spell level and divine retribution. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 878
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written Monday, March 27 2006 14:57
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Actually, you get 2 points of mage spells from equipment fairly early on (incantor's ring and clarity talisman), and I don't thin the enchanters robe was all that late either (great cave I believe). -------------------- Warning: Posts may contain misspellinks and typo.s Posts: 409 | Registered: Sunday, March 31 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Monday, March 27 2006 16:07
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This isn't counting equipment. I've got all three, tinker's gloves and bauble for tool use, and a bunch of other neat stuff that I switch to help out in certain occasions. That was base stats from using skill points and buying training. I'm just giving people an idea about what a singleton will look like at different stages so they can plan how to spend the money and points. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |