Singleton party
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Friday, December 30 2005 13:45
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Question: Traps CAN just be set off, can't they? I know some of them have rather disastrous effects, but couldn't you find ways to survive via buffing, in the worst cases trading 1 invulnerability potion for a trap you really want to get past? -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, December 30 2005 14:06
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Yeah, I suppose so. In some cases, traps (usually the second of two), summon monsters to fight. The second trap on the way to Mr. Knowledge Brews summons a golem if you trigger it, for instance. I have no idea how hard it is to survive later traps, because I've never set one off. I suppose there are ways to survive them if necessary. Kel, I know Alorael's method for handling that cave, which may be what I will do. I also bet I could probably just run out of there too, if I work it right. -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Friday, December 30 2005 23:24
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It suddenly occurs to me that Enduring Shield and Armor are supposed to increase your dodge rate. According to the manual, "At higher skill, provides more protection for longer." Wowzers. I wonder how much difference skill makes? (Synergy, any ideas?) If it's at all significant, suddenly a priest-tank becomes very ideal. If it's enough of a difference, you can even pump priest skill enough to cast Retribution et al. quite well without feeling guilty about abandoning defense! -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Saturday, December 31 2005 00:23
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I never did any testing on it, but I never really noticed a huge difference in my dodge rate late in the game with and without Enduring Armor. By no means does this say that it does not do that, but I believe its effect is small. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Saturday, December 31 2005 00:51
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Enduring Shield and Enduring Armour don't even do the same thing, despite the misleading description. They give different status effects, and Enduring Shield doesn't increase your maximum HP; however, Enduring Shield and Enduring Armor don't stack with each other (i.e. if you already have one effect on you, casting the other will have no effect). I'm not entirely sure whether the Enduring Armor effect also encompasses all the benefits of Enduring Shield. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Saturday, December 31 2005 01:03
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I definitely noticed a difference between having Enduring Shield and not having it when I first got the spell. By the end it made less difference, but it was still a noticeable and helpful difference. Then again, none of my characters were really built as tanks. Casting Enduring Armor while you have Enduring Shield active replaces the latter with the former. Casting Shield with Armor active does nothing. Armor may increase dodging more than Shield, but the obvious advantage is extra health. The health is nearly as much as Augmentation and stacks, which means that the two together add more than 100 hit points for about 70% increase in health. Very nice. —Alorael, who recalls that Kel had a solution to the Flats cave that was both much easier and much more dependent on abusing the engine. He can't actually remember what the solution was, though. A refresher would be nice. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, December 31 2005 04:16
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I'll tell you what I did with my singleton. I killed the guys upstairs first and went back to Fort Samuels to replenish. I went down below and took out all the pylons one by one with acid from a safe distance till they were gone from all three areas. I went to the far SW room and activated the monster vats, came out and took out the creepy crawlies from around corners and with lots of in-your-face melee. This was all very easy compared to doing both at once, obviously, which I had always done before. The first time one plays, or if one plays as if ignorant of what comes next, one gets to face all that and then the nasty party upstairs just to escape. That's a lot of energy potions and/or invulnerability potions for a singleton in particular. This method, which occurred to me on the spot, but might be what Alo meant he did a while back (but I never quite understood) required none of either, thanks to the replenishment birdbath provided. I don't get the impression that Enduring Shield/Armor contribute a whole lot to dodging ability. I had a very high level priest for my two previous games, and him casting Enduring Armor onto my party did little to make them unhittable tanks. It would be good to find the actual stats on these, now that you've pointed it out. [ Saturday, December 31, 2005 04:28: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Saturday, December 31 2005 07:43
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I'm gonna look into this. Incidentally, I also looked up the arcane lore details. Almost all spells can be had with 10 lore, and very few take more than 12 (just Host and Blow at 15, I believe). Retribution only takes 12, and if you want to wait to finish Lark's quest, that one seems to take no lore at all. I say "only" because you can pump lore by 6 from using the right items. These may not show up until late, I'm not sure, but between those and Cecil, it's an investment of only 10 skill points to get to 12 arcane lore... I have been trying to get the game to spit out pile of dirt details to me, since they aren't stored in the scripts. That's harder, though. I've gotten it to do so, but only when starting a game or teleporting and only for nearby piles, so that's not much help at all. Meh. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, December 31 2005 08:34
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I don't know, man. I was just talking about cutting out Tool Use as a way of reducing spent points, and adding 10 Arcane Lore would be a wash at best, if one foregoes the Tool Use. Dispel Barriers WOULD be nice, though, for sure. More loot to be had that way, if nothing more. UPDATE: My solo nephil is now at level 33, basically at end-game level for four PC's. Due to training and gear, he has 6 Strength, 5 Dex, 4 Int, 6 End, 6 Quick Action, 4 Quick Strike, 5 Lethal Blow, 6 Parry, 11 Sharpshooter, 12 Magery, 5 Gymnastics, 2 Anatomy, 17 Blademaster, 9 Bows,. I'm still at 7 Luck, and 11 Tool Use. Priest Spells are up to 10, which is good for Divine Fire, thank God (picture nephil on bended knee whilst incinerating pesky bandits). My basic stats (the first four) are pretty lame. You can see why I regret the 8 or 9 points I misinvested in Mage Spells as well as why I am thinking that I could have foregone 11 Tool Use (something like 55-60 SP there). I could have been DONE with priest spells now, or I could have 10 Arcane Lore instead, or I could have beefier defense (trainable Gymnastics, more Dex and Parry and Luck) as well as more Quick Action, of which I really should have some more. Being at such a high level, I have 122 Health Points and 147 Spell Points from leveling up (I only have 4 Intelligence). This gives me a bit to work with in protracted battles already which is helpful. I've got lots to go yet, though. I'm about 3/5 through this game, I'd say. I am scooting about on errands around the Castle and Patrick's Tower. I cleaned up the demons under Patrick's Tower. The main baddie was no big deal, but the "lesser" one off to the east a bit was a hassle, till I figured out an easy, but tedious way to take him out, and fortunately, it didn't require Invulnerability. It did take about four or five energy potions though. This should work for any size party. All it requires is that every single turn you slow Bozo down once. He will spend every turn hasting himself and his beloved four pylons up. So acid and whittle the pylons one by one (starting with the Restoration Pylon), while slowing the big bad boy and finally douse him with liberal helpings of Repel Spirit. It took a while, but man, did it beat the alternative of going Invulnerable and dealing with reams of summonings, though it was fun to break out the Madness scrolls for that failed attempt. What IS annoying my singleton are all the Writhing Mass goos which love to harrass me on the way out of a cave after a draining battle. They have an annoyingly high number of hit points, and while not a grave threat, are a big pain. Fortunately, I have most of the tunnels mopped up now. I'm getting anywhere from zero to low double-digits for kills...basically, similar levels on and off since the Eastern Gallery. In fact, it's been better for some time than it was way back there when I was levelling up so fast around Fort Draco and Formello where you hit your first severely diminishing returns. I've got more money than I know what to do with. I have like 20 fine leathers sitting around. I have a big pile of wands. I have been stashing many of the unique items, so I couuld have a lot more loot if I ever needed to cash in. Once past the Eastern Gallery, the only thing I have bought or trained in is Bows, Sharpshooter, and Quick Strike. It's a ways off before I can kill the shades (wonder how THAT will go?) and get acces to Parry and Blademaster—why would I need more of Blademaster? I'll buy it anyways. Is there a damage cap on swords? I bet I'm already at it. I'm getting up to 50-something on sword hits at present, more than I ever used to get with my party of four dedicated melee man. Resistance and Magical Efficiency are still a ways off, and I dread what I have to do first to get them. I'm getting hit about half of the time at this point. I want to be more dodgy. I'm not sure how many more levels I'm going to get out of this game. I need like 9 levels worth of SP to get my Divine Retribution, I think. Yikes. [ Saturday, December 31, 2005 08:52: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, December 31 2005 21:07
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Regarding traps: I just set one off with my singleton, unintentionally (I blame the port wine) and received all of 8 fire damage from it, in Dharmon. Tool Use looks more dispensible for singletons all the time. Oh, except that there are four traps in sequence in order to acquire Demonslayer. I supppose it might be possible to endure them with an Invulnerability potion and fight the summons on the last one. Demonslayer is useful against the Final Foe, but not really very beefy or necessary otherwise. I use the Oozing Blade most of the time. [ Monday, January 02, 2006 03:47: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Saturday, December 31 2005 21:11
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Amazing how our base 10 number system gives us some sense of significance of a new millennium. At any rate, Happy New Year. :D -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, December 31 2005 21:53
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What''s the matter, Stareye, did my ruthless self-editing strand your reply in a baffling fashion? ;) -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Monday, January 2 2006 06:04
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Here is an update on my singleton venture. I am at Level 40, just shy of 41. I’ve cleaned out the Great Cave entirely, except I just remembered I forgot to pay a little visit to the savage slith lands from the tunnel near the Castle, so I’m heading back now. The shades are destroyed, and none required more than 2-3 attempts. For one I used Invulnerability potions (the one in Blosk was particularly pesky), but the others succumbed readily to my tank magician. The Bow of Decay and Oozing Blade in combination are proving a deadly duo of weaponry on the offense. I get to acid and poison many of my foes and the acid is especially brutal after 2-4 hits from my bow. On foes who riposte or otherwise damage me back on strikes, I just acid bowstrike them at close range instead. A strategy I am using often is getting up next to foes to keep them from using spells or archery, but still using the acid bow along with the poisoned sword. I got Captain Call in Silvar to train me in Blademaster and Parry after killing the shades. I’d already gotten Quick Strike much ealier (in Almaria I think), as money is not a problem. I have 10,000 left over at the moment. I had over 20, 000 not long ago. I made it to the Basalt Fortress and survived the final confrontation there—it took two attempts, and I was only able to save one of my friendly assistants out of the four I started with (I have no Mass Healing, though, come to think of it, I have the money...I should go get it to Mass Heal friendly helpers hereafter.) I patiently destroyed seven pylons to carve a clear and easy path in, then mopped up everything on the way out and on a couple return visits (I can only carry so much as a singleton, alas). I liberated the Spire in a lightning ninja assault run, which was great fun. Killing the final foe took a while, but was not diffficult. I hightailed it after that right up to Bargha where I could finally buy two levels of Divine Retribution. Yay! I put it immediately to good use on some Spire rebel scum, and it clocked in at 136 HP against an archer. Not too shabby. I also have gotten 110 HP out of my Oozing blade against an archer, unbelievably, though normally, I’m getting 20’s-80’s from the blade, depending on defenses of foes. In my previous two complete games with parties of four, I was getting 20’s-40’s out of melee strikes typically. Perhaps the 22 Blademaster I have now is helping, you think? I got some lovely Answering Gauntlets made for me in Bargha (the first thing I’ve had made for myself in a long long time in this game.) The riposte and parry bonuses from those gloves are making a very noticeable difference. It is very gratifying to watch a warrior bounce 45 HP of damage back onto himself. I have finished all of the Testing site battles now with little trouble with any of them. Anything with freezing power like basilisks, (except pylons) have no effect on me. I just run up and acid/poison them to death at my leisure. One of the Spire Arena foes cast Terror on me and I ran off for a bit, but that is the first mind control experience I’ve suffered in quite some time. I am not using bonus AP gear, but have opted for my most tanklike defenses since my defenses aren’t quite as good as I would like stat-wise. I am just starting to add more Dexterity now and will add Gymnastics when I get it trainable. I am done with Priest spells FINALLY (at 15 for DR). I have 10 Bows and 13 Sharpshooter, 4 Quick Strike, 12 Parry (!), 3 Anatomy, 8 Gymnastics, 3 Riposte, 5 Lethal Blow, 14 Magery, 2 Resistance. Most of these are from natural bonuses, gear bonuses, and two levels trained where possible. I am not trainable in any of these (excluding Bows) yet. I have 223 HP when augmented and 175 SP, still with only 4 Intelligence. Magery is making my spells very potent now. I haven’t touched Spellcraft except for the two levels I could buy. My Strength is only 7, barely enough to carry the minimal gear, potions, and alternate weapons I like to have along. Every single battle or challenge I have been worried about has proven surprisingly manageable. My toughest battle so far has been the east demon under Patrick’s Tower, because of his four pylons. That was hard work and took 3-4 attempts to manhandle. I agree a Divinely Touched nephil with Pure Spirit would probably make the most potent and affordable combination, though my nephil here with DT and Elite Warrior is doing mighty fine, having great melee and Bow ability for his EW status. He can walk in just about anywhere tanklike and hack away, keeping magic for healing, shielding, hasting, and the occasional Daze, Icy Rain, Divine Fire, and now...Divine Retribution!!! DR is a priest’s best friend, and easily the most gratifying spell to employ in the whole game. My luck is only at five, since I’m not using the Clover Boots anymore. The defensive/resistant properties of the accidentally over-factored Gazerskin Sandals are too good to pass up. I have 108% armor, and 79-94% in everything else except Mental, which is a paltry 27%. My mage spells stopped at 9, but could have stopped at 8 (just enough for Lightning Spray was all I needed, and even that could be foregone probably, considering it is not a true area spell). If one chose to forego LS and maybe even Augmentation (which is really not necessary often at all and can be done with potions as Slarty suggests), then the Warrior Priest could add just enough Mage spells to get Unlock Doors, which is, what...only 6 in Mage Spells. My verdict is still out on whether or not Arcane Lore is necessary. I am doing quite nicely with only level 2 spells in everything. If one chose to forego thieving abilities and AL, then one could either get some decent Nature Lore to help ward off pesky critters and uncover more herbs and loot in caches. This is what I miss most, being able to open caches, well, that and dispelling barriers. If one chose to forego AL, TU, and NL, then one could have a mightily defensive, dodgy fighter and priest. I think any one of these variations would work. Mine is far from optimal, and is still kicking butt nonetheless. NEXT: teach the uppity sliths a lesson or two, then carve a beeline to Craftmaster Strine and see how many Knowledge Brews I can chug. [ Monday, January 02, 2006 07:25: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Monday, January 2 2006 08:16
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You know... that could be another way to do it. Pump armor and all of your resistances as high as possible, instead of pumping dodge. A few points into Endurance, a lot into Hardiness, Luck, and Resistance. Boost with Steel Skin and Prismatic Shield (and Protection), although getting the spell skill points for both of those would suck. I wonder how much damage you can prevent with high enough armor/resists? I've already seen goblins hit me for zero damage, and my armor rating was only around 30 at the time. All those stat boosts plus Charmed Plate, Gazerskin Sandals, and so on... that's a lot of resistance! -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Monday, January 2 2006 08:27
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quote:On one of my parties in the beta, I had a character with Demon Slayer, a ton of hostile resistance items, steel skill, buffing spells, etc, that would frequently get hit for zero damage. It's possible to hit around 100% hostile effect resistance with items, if my memory serves me right. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Monday, January 2 2006 09:13
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Yes, but does 100% resistance actually prevent 100% of damage? -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Board Administrator
Member # 1
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written Monday, January 2 2006 10:28
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"Yes, but does 100% resistance actually prevent 100% of damage?" Nope. I tried to, for the first time, actually provide an explanation for how this works. It's in the docs, I think in the combat chapter. Basically, each piece of armor eats a percentage of the remaining damage. I love this system and wish I thought it up years ago. It makes balance MUCH easier. It is the main factor that helps me keep the game a challenge at higher levels. - Jeff Vogel -------------------- Official Board Admin spidweb@spiderwebsoftware.com Posts: 960 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Monday, January 2 2006 10:47
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quote:Steel Skin is a priest spell I picked up on my way up to Divine Retribution, and is used before any significant confrontation. I cast Enduring Armor the moment I set foot outside any town. I haven't really had any problem not having Prismatic Shield. I have been charmed or terrified in about three or four battles during this singleton game, with no dire results in any situation. Well, my first attempt on Kolokh before I got a strategy down was lethal once he terrified me and laid waste to me while I was dumbly running into the wall instead of wisely out of the room. And the ghosts in the Giant Lands scared my nephil for a few turns, but you'd be scared too if you saw a roomful of ghosts. I think a good mix of dodginess and resistances works well, but it could be fun to focus strongly on just one or the other and see how it works. The game does seem to reward balance quite well, rather than extremes. I predict I will finish this game soon with little serious difficulty. I am thinking another run as a singleton on Tricky or Torment with a Priest/Melee nephil with some Nature Lore, but little to no Tool Use and no Arcane Lore. -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Monday, January 2 2006 10:54
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Does armor always apply the largest percentage first (Take away 40% of damage, then 20% of remainder, then 5% of the remainder of that) or does the order depend on the type of item (first armor, then shield, then boots)? —Alorael, who will take advantage of having the man himself checking in while he can. It's very nice! Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Monday, January 2 2006 13:03
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"Basically, each piece of armor eats a percentage of the remaining damage. I love this system and wish I thought it up years ago. It makes balance MUCH easier. It is the main factor that helps me keep the game a challenge at higher levels." Ooh, thanks for the answer. That *is* a great system. Teach me to read the readme! Hmm... so basically, those Poor Leather Helmets are completely useless... One more question: are character-innate resistances (say, from being a Slith, from Luck, from Hardiness, from Endurance, etc) all lumped together and applied as one? And does this mean that an Endurance of 20 will *actually* make you immune to Poison and Acid? (Or, more to the point, that 10 Hardiness and 20 Resistance will give 100% immunity?) [ Monday, January 02, 2006 13:38: Message edited by: Slartucker ] -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Monday, January 2 2006 13:54
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quote:From looking at the manual, it the formula is the damage times all of the block percentages. So if you would normally take 100 damage with no armor and have three pieces of armor for 30%, 10%, and 5% you get: 100*(1-0.3)*(1-0.1)*(1-0.95) = 60 damage approximately Multiplication, last I checked, was commutative so it should not depend on any order. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6632
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written Monday, January 2 2006 13:56
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quote:That shouldn't matter. If I understand it right, the math is 0.60 * 0.80 * 0.95 = 0.456, meaning 54.4% of the damage is stopped, as opposed to 65 which it would be in most systems. Question: which (if any) is displayed on screen? /Miv, who probably will play a full pary when the windows version is released. Posts: 50 | Registered: Monday, January 2 2006 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Monday, January 2 2006 14:56
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quote:The number displayed for your armour in the character info screen is simply the sum of all the percentages. Which means that having a displayed armor value of something ludicrous like 108 is actually somewhat misleading, since you'll still only be blocking most of the damage rather than all of it. [ Monday, January 02, 2006 14:57: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Monday, January 2 2006 15:08
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quote:At the risk of repeating myself, I will, er, repeat myself: I agree wholeheartedly. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Monday, January 2 2006 15:58
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Well, my singleton game is rapidly drawing to a close now. I am down to the final confrontation, or I should say series of confrontations in the north Remote Lands. Lack of Dispel Barrier is a serious bummer. Slarty or others trying singletons, make note: If you want to use Craftmaster Strine to get Knowledge Brews or get into the upper part of Erika's ruin or raid the Castle treasury or enter any other of a couple dozen barrier-guarded locations, you're going to have to get Dispel Barrier. The path under the river to Strine is blocked by a half dozen barriers which do not respond to Piercing Crystals. Basically, once you leave the Eastern Gallery, about the only thing that a Piercing Crystal will break is the barriers to the test sites. Otherwise, they are worthless. I'm really really bummed not being able to pay a little visit to Strine. I have a LOT of wasted herbs. I think I could have made about 15 Knowledge brews. That would have been good for some Dex and Strength I wish I had right now. I'm pretty much stuck with what I have at this point for the rest of the game, unless I earn one more level on my way into the ruin. I'll give one more report and some conclusions when I finish. Color me Highly Disappointed just now. Being singleton has been wonderful in many regards, and kind of a drag missing out on spellbooks, caches, and everything behind barriers on the other hand. -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |