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Right then... I'm somewhat back. in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #1
Hello. :rolleyes:
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Guess who's back. Back Again in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #6
I think it charming and commendable that Zingoleb has overcome his or her electronic wallflower status and has initiated a topic, however unimaginative or interesting it may perhaps be. We await future, improved contributions to discussion.
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Poll for Atheists and Agnostics... in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #96
Er, actually I think this thread was started by a Christian as an attempt to challenge the unbelief of atheists and agnostics.

Why do you feel the need to defend your faith? What we don't believe is our loss, surely?
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Announcement on the status of Scorpius and Ed Lemur in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #126
Once upon a time, it was legal procedure to 'treat' gay people in an attempt to turn them straight - usually aversion therapy where they'd get shown nudey pics and electroshocked or not depending on their reaction to them. Actually, this happened to an old boy I know who was nicked for cottaging once. It's something he still does 40 years later, it's just that he hates himself for it now. Adding in Christian guilt--and they're past masters at it--would surely only make matters worse.

On a slightly different topic, David does raise questions about limitations of tolerance. I really doubt he has a deep-rooted hatred of homosexuality or even particularly strongh views on the subject (I know, 5 pages later - but he'll argue at such length about anything) - it's just that his faith opposes it and he has to defend such received opinion. Homosexuals are a minority, but respected as such, as they should be. Strangely, creationists, snake-handlers and suchlike (not suggesting that David is necessarily one)--also effectively harmless minorities--would get a lot less respect on these boards, more inclined to ridicule than a tolerant 'do your own thing as long is it doesn't bother me' reaction.

BTW, glad the Victorians hadn't read their Romans(quoted above) with any attention. For reasons largely to do with queen Victoria's sexual ignorance, lesbianism wasn't recognised and legally persecuted in UK (and I guess through the Empire) during the 19th century.
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Announcement on the status of Scorpius and Ed Lemur in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #99
wychenthal: iDavid is being polite and trying hard to argue rationally, rather than giving in to his inner Oral Roberts and ranting madly about hellfire and bodily pollution. You should show similar courtesy, however frustrated you are by him and however strongly you feel about your own arguments. :(
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Poll for Atheists and Agnostics... in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #90
Funny how Amon-Ra echoes Beckett: "He doesn't exist, the [expletive]!" It suggests he (I assume the same gender applies as to the Egyptian deity) is unsure in his unbelief. It seems a waste to hate something that doesn't exist, especially with such vehemence.

I won't bore contributors with a long discussion of the problem of origin and the problem of evil - both old chestnuts. My concern is that the scientific paradigm that's replaced Judeo-Christianity seems an inadequate basis for ethics. Even a hard-core determinist like Dawkins--who happens to lecture just down the road from me--is embarassed enough by this to equivocate about it in the intros to most of his books.
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Announcement on the status of Scorpius and Ed Lemur in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #95
So what, hypothetically speaking, if people choose to be gay? Or choose to experiment sexually with bondage gear, shoes, blow-up GW Bushes, or whatever? Why is that anyone's business but their own, if not because it makes them an object of arbitrary prejudice, which is really someone else's problem?

I might add that though laws againt so-called sexual deviance might have been harsh in previous centuries, typically they were only used as an add-on in accusations of doctrinal unorthodoxy, more as offences to God than Nature (as if any sexual act is strictly 'unnatural' anyway!) and people tended to do as they pleased as long as they didn't make an issue of it (i.e. their faith rather than their sexuality was consiered key in defining their identity).

As to a 'normal' sexuality, check out anthropologies like Malinovski's venerable 'Sexual Life of Savages' for what is approved of in other societies and the perceptive reader will pretty soon be asking what all the fuss is about...
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
the truth in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #8
Beyond the realms of gimmckry and spin-off marketing, I thought they issued the playing cards because the troops couldn't pronounce the names of those they were pursuing nor bother to find out how. You know, like they're that conversant with the culture they're subjugating....

BTW, I heard this morning on the BBC that even Rumsfeld is trying to explain away the lack of Iraqi WoMD by saying they were destroyed before the invasion. About 12 years before, when the student paper that provided the basis for Colin Powell's acclaimed intelligence assessment to the UN was written, perhaps...?

Additional BTW re. another thread: The 'Iraqi gold' documents supposedly from the Iraqi Ministry of Information toted around by the 'Telegraph' and 'Christian Science Monitor' in an attempt to discredit George Galloway have now been examined by experts (inc. one ex-MI6 operative) and have been ajudged "crude forgeries" - just like those submitted to the Un about Iraqi acquisition of African yellowcake.

Anyone noticed how many high Iraqi officials now are surnamed al-Tekriti? So much for 'regime change'. I'm fussing about this now as Rumsfeld is pulling the same bogus intelligence stunt v. Iran as he did v. Iraq, mainly because he doesn't want Shia rule in the newly-conquered territories. As previously predicted, US troops are already shooting those that cheered them (or at least their statue demolition efforts) scant months before as 'rioters' because they were demonstrating for majority / theocratic rule.
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Announcement on the status of Scorpius and Ed Lemur in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #55
Odd how the Bible bans same-sex sex but not mother-son sex - or where did everyone come from if not from Eve + Cain or Abel?
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Home of the Free in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #50
With ue respect, it's remarkable how many of these cops also manage to shoot themselves or each other. There must be some sort of eugenic principle in play here....
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
What do you think I should do? in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #19
Hey, it sounds like he does the same sot of work as in 'Lawn Dogs'. You could develop an untaxed sideline as a gigolo with cutomers you meet through your regular work. Can't be bad, eh?
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Announcement on the status of Scorpius and Ed Lemur in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #5
When's the wedding? Am I invited?
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Bham. in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #20
Can you say "play with yourselves" on SW boards? I'll be using it a lot in future, if so. ;)
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Poll for Atheists and Agnostics... in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #23
We're damned by our unbelief, Khoth, obviously. Like you're worried. ;)

One very interesting one to note is fundi rage against New Age stuff. I'm inclined to agree a lot of New Age stuff looks pretty cobbled together, but never figured out the fundi's quasi-witch hunting rage again it until I realisd most of their kids go on to be New Agers.

BTW, I thnk there's been a thread on Agnes Bordescu already. Don't even go there - they go sort of crazy. :rolleyes:
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
'Wut do u look like?" in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #213
Phew!
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Home of the Free in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #40
There is a total handgun ban in UK, even at gun clubs. When othr firearms are transported, the firing pin and ammunition have to be kept seperately. And it's locked cabinets otherwise.

As I understand it, apart from upgrading replicas, the main source of firearms in UK is imports from the former Eastern Bloc. You'd laugh at what you can get through Customs here!
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
In this thread, I take off my pants in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #19
Nominally though of course the Democrats started out as the slave-owners' party (Lincoln, a Republican, abolished slavery).

Actually, I have time for Carter. Who else would have the bottle to sack half the CIA with detente and the end of the Vietnam War?
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
death, or something like it. in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #35
The circumcission might prove off-putting!

Hey, this reminds me of this story. When Thatcher (generally no judged a nice person, even by her supporters) was running UK, this guy was nicked rushing into Parliament armed with two butcher knives. Asked "If you had reahced the prime minister, would you have stabbd her?", the frustrated assassin responded: "Well, anyone would". Nowadays, politiians prefer opinion polls to rate their popularity. :D
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Farewell in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #36
God's a big boy, Darkwind - He can take it! And, assuming he exists, all the blasphmers go to Hell anyway, so I find it hard to understand why you find something so much harder to deal with than your presumed creator.
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
What World Leader to like best. in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #59
I suppose I should add that he ate them too, but surely not as disgusting as the Milwalkee he washed them down with.

Are 'reasons of state' god reasons? Or are they as insane, driven by politicians obsessed with petty advantage or a 'place in history' rather than commonly-understood human concerns? How does GWB compare to Jeffrey Dahmer?
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
'Wut do u look like?" in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #204
Sorry, Ghost - but are you all really that desperate to see him, especially as he was probably still in short trousers when the pic was taken?
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Home of the Free in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #12
I should point out that in UK, gun-related murders are 1/200th of those on the US - or 1/40th, adjusted for population. I think only about 400-odd people were murdered by any means in the entire country despite the 'English genleman' being long dead. Here even possesion of knives over 4" long is banned and they're talking about adding BB and imitation guns to the list!

I thought the lower murder rate was just down to the reduced lethality of weapons available - more people get stabbed, bludgeoned and booted over here (re. the sword comment above, machetes are actually very popular here) than in the US, it's just they more rarely die of it. Then I saw Michael Moore's 'Bowling for Columbine' and his citing Canada as armed to the teeth too (Switerland too - civil defence requires an assault rifle in every home) and came the surprising conclusion tht guns weren't really the main issue.

If you take away virtally any means to survive except crime (i.e. no welfare, discrimination in education and employment, etc) and have such OTT property laws (allowing lethal force even against trespassers!!!) that criminals have to arm themselves to survive by robbery, then a lot more killings are inevitable. Guns make it easy, but stabbings or beatings don't make it impossible, believe me! Until welfare and opportunity issues are addressed, the US is stuck with a high murder rate regardless of gun control issues.

The psychology of the gun-owner needs addressing too. I get this impression guns are seen as some sort of frontier symbol of freedom and unless that's addressed (e.g. not wildly approprite to modern urban enviromnments), the current 'dialogue of the deaf' will continue. (I do think there's a 'penis extension' lement to this to, acquiring a gun being as much an initiation into manhood as acquiring a driving licence - but that's another story....) Part of this is commendably down to 18th century liberal opposition to a standing army in peacetime as tyrannous (and a waste of tax-payers money), but I regret some of it is also down to the former Southern plantocracy's fear of servile insurrection. One thing Moore said (so take it the a pinch of salt) is that the NRA had no objection to gun control for former slaves when it was founded, just Southern Whites. So both in terms of stereotypes of Uzi-totin' Black gangstas and the lack of opportunity that forces them into crime, the US still hasn't come to terms with its heritage of slavery.

No doubt this whole debate will generate a lot more heat than light. This is just my two pennies-worth. Abortion or capital punishment next anyone?
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
The Age of Chaos(the book) in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #17
ZT needs to check out BoE to write scenarios, yes. I does sound a pretty short, short story to me.
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
death, or something like it. in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #32
Hey! one and sa half votes for 'm' death, almost up with the sniper now I should say E's illegal, but then sniping generally is too....
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Crossfire in General
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #141
No doubt you've seen all the Sahlins stuff then. A mate of mine knows the Hazda pretty well and says a lot of the time goes on social interaction. Band societies are so much better at it than we are, even if not very industrious chaps.
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00

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