Announcement on the status of Scorpius and Ed Lemur

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AuthorTopic: Announcement on the status of Scorpius and Ed Lemur
Agent
Member # 366
Profile #125
I've been thinking since I last posted and I think we should stop being so hard on David. The poor soul has been brainwashed by his faith, and is no longer capable of rational thought. I appreciate he thinks he's right (as do we all), but I can't imagine the horror of being brought up to be scared of anything the Bible says is "wrong". I could liken it to being chained up in a prison cell, unable to speak of anything unless the powers that be say it's ok. As for the post where he speaks of smartness and maturity, the little lad is only 14! What experience of maturity does he have? There is still time to be saved David! Pull yourself from this madness while you still can and you may yet be redeemed!
So David, I apologise and you have my deepest sympathy. I remember being 14 and how hard it was... I got defensive whenever anyone questioned me, usually because I knew they were right. I used to deny my sexuality because I was ashamed of it. Not because I thought it was wrong, but because I knew others wouldn't understand. Rest assured David, there are people on these boards who understand you! Don't be scared to be true to yourself..We can help you if you let us.

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I say never be complete. I say stop being perfect. I say let's evolve. Let the chips fall where they may.
Posts: 1277 | Registered: Sunday, December 9 2001 08:00
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #126
Once upon a time, it was legal procedure to 'treat' gay people in an attempt to turn them straight - usually aversion therapy where they'd get shown nudey pics and electroshocked or not depending on their reaction to them. Actually, this happened to an old boy I know who was nicked for cottaging once. It's something he still does 40 years later, it's just that he hates himself for it now. Adding in Christian guilt--and they're past masters at it--would surely only make matters worse.

On a slightly different topic, David does raise questions about limitations of tolerance. I really doubt he has a deep-rooted hatred of homosexuality or even particularly strongh views on the subject (I know, 5 pages later - but he'll argue at such length about anything) - it's just that his faith opposes it and he has to defend such received opinion. Homosexuals are a minority, but respected as such, as they should be. Strangely, creationists, snake-handlers and suchlike (not suggesting that David is necessarily one)--also effectively harmless minorities--would get a lot less respect on these boards, more inclined to ridicule than a tolerant 'do your own thing as long is it doesn't bother me' reaction.

BTW, glad the Victorians hadn't read their Romans(quoted above) with any attention. For reasons largely to do with queen Victoria's sexual ignorance, lesbianism wasn't recognised and legally persecuted in UK (and I guess through the Empire) during the 19th century.
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
Profile #127
I will respond to the other posts later, sometime, because I don't want to risk screwing up once again because of my quick temper.

PR, you officially have my utter hatred and disgust. I don't know if that post was inspired by wych's condescending little assessment of myself or just something spawned from your own brain, but I can tell you I would rather have you here beating me with a stick than talk about me like that. You're probably going to take this as "proof" about your little "defensiveness when challeneged" thing, but right now, I couldn't care less. Brainwashed? Incapable of rational thought? All this shows is that you can't even attempt to see any point of view but your own. Chained in a prison?? You talk like you are the keeper of infinite wisdom, and I am simply a robot. You are so God damn conscending and falsely righteous, not to mention insanely stupid. Pull myself from the madness? You will FORGIVE me??? Good Lord, the last thing I want right now is to be in your favor! A wee lad, sunken into the abyss of being able to see all points of view and then deciding which is most corr - wait, I meant brainwashing. Don't be scared? Let you HELP me?? If you're trying to get me to run from Spiderweb screaming, you're doing a damn good job of it. All I can say is, never talk to me like that again.

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And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it.
-The Last Pendragon

TEH CONSPIRACY IZ ALL

Les forum de la chance.

In case of emergency, break glass.
Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00
Babelicious
Member # 39
Profile Homepage #128
Hey, PR, talk to him like that again.

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desperance.net - honestly, no biting.
Posts: 1074 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1506
Profile #129
Well. I was going to apologize for my rude behavior...

Actually, I'd still like to apologize. Now that I think about it, I'm probably least tolerant of people like David, while I prefer a "live and let live" basis with most everyone else. However, I still reserve the right to bash David if he manages to say something outrageous. It's the Way of the Internet. :P

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desperance.net -- Come on in, we don't bite. Well, I don't.
Posts: 218 | Registered: Saturday, July 13 2002 07:00
Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
Profile #130
I'd much prefer all the bashing you can heap on me than another post like PR's...

And X, thank you.

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And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it.
-The Last Pendragon

TEH CONSPIRACY IZ ALL

Les forum de la chance.

In case of emergency, break glass.
Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1506
Profile #131
I believe X was saying the same thing as PR, actually. Whether this lends respectability to Princess Ruth's post or takes away from X's is up to you, David.

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desperance.net -- Come on in, we don't bite. Well, I don't.
Posts: 218 | Registered: Saturday, July 13 2002 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 1823
Profile Homepage #132
Ow, it's pretty damn hot from th flames in here.
Anyway:
This may be of interest (well, most of the threads here seem to be about homosexuality):
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=7

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Riot Shields
Voodoo Economics
It's just business
Cattle prods
And the IMF

I trust I can rely on your vote
Posts: 530 | Registered: Sunday, September 1 2002 07:00
Agent
Member # 366
Profile #133
Haha, online sarcasm really doesn't come across too well at all...
But I did apologise for being hard on you.
Nevermind.

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I say never be complete. I say stop being perfect. I say let's evolve. Let the chips fall where they may.
Posts: 1277 | Registered: Sunday, December 9 2001 08:00
Triad Mage Banned Veteran
Member # 165
Profile Homepage #134
re. Djur: You think you have it bad at 6'2"? I'm pretty sure by the time you're considered an adult, you'll be around average. Being taller than 6'8" is just a chore. :P

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desperance -- je me souviens
arena -- et je me souviens de vous
Posts: 2449 | Registered: Monday, October 15 2001 07:00
Agent
Member # 1169
Profile #135
Actually, Sir David, PR's attitude towards you is the way a lot of us here feel. I, for one, am usually disgusted by you, but I feel sorry for you as well...I tend to think of people like you as brainwashed as well, too blind to understand anyone but those with similar beliefs. I mean, what would you know about homosexuality? You've never experienced it. You only have one friend who's a lesbian, and I doubt you've ever tried to hear her side of the story, just condemned her--oh, I'm sorry, "disagreed with her"--for being "wrong."

Obviously, you know absolutely nothing about the things you so readily condemn. How would you? You aren't gay. You believe that it's wrong because the Bible says it's wrong, but the men who wrote the Bible probably knew nothing about it either. They wrote what the opinion of the times swayed them to write. How many of the Apostles do you think were gay, Dave? How many of them had firsthand experience with homosexuality--in other words, how many of them were qualified to condemn it?

I pity you, Dave, I really do. You talk about things you know absolutely nothing about, and are convinced you're right simply because a book written thousands of years ago implies that you are. I can't imagine being that close-minded, I really can't.

As for you being too young to understand--I'm not sure about that. I'm 15, only a year older than you, and my beliefs on these issues are pretty much the same as they were last year. I don't think it's that you're too young to understand...I think it's just that you choose not to, because you're afraid of the truth.

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"Man hands down misery to man. It deepens like a coastal shelf. Get out as early as you can, and don't have any kids yourself."--Philip Larkin, "This Be the Verse"

Fear the wrath of the Grammar Wench, lest ye be cut down by the Glistening Scythe.
Posts: 1150 | Registered: Friday, May 17 2002 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 1823
Profile Homepage #136
I do find it ironic that those preaching tolerance are so intolerant of other people's beliefs. If you wish people to be tolerant of others, practice what you preach, no matter how wrong the other person's views are, because it's really starting to p*** me off.

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Riot Shields
Voodoo Economics
It's just business
Cattle prods
And the IMF

I trust I can rely on your vote
Posts: 530 | Registered: Sunday, September 1 2002 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2669
Profile Homepage #137
Infidel! How dare you question the cause?!? Report to the pyre immediately.

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Posts: 647 | Registered: Wednesday, February 19 2003 08:00
This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 147
Profile #138
Y'know, David does seem to be winning this argument. Mainly because some people can't accept that HE DOESN'T HAVE TO LIKE HOMOSEXUALITY IF HE DOESN'T WANT TO. He doesn't use violence in his disagreement. He merely says that his scriptures, which he believes are God's teachings, say that it is wrong.

RoR, he said that he disagreed. He also counted the person as a 'friend.' That suggests it's not some massive personal crusade for him. Grow up. If you want to win the argument, you must use logic, not wild sweeping statements.
Posts: 1000 | Registered: Thursday, October 11 2001 07:00
Agent
Member # 366
Profile #139
I accept that he doesn't have to like it, I just think his arguements are flawed. He doesn't seem to have an opinion that he's worked out himself, but justifies everything with "the bible, the bible, the bible".

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I say never be complete. I say stop being perfect. I say let's evolve. Let the chips fall where they may.
Posts: 1277 | Registered: Sunday, December 9 2001 08:00
Agent
Member # 1169
Profile #140
Look, I have every right to be offended by what he's saying. He's telling me that I'm wrong and sinful for liking women. Of course I'm going to try to push tolerance on him. He's harming people with his insistence that homosexuality is wrong, because he's telling us that we're inferior to heterosexuals because of the way we feel. I'm not harming anyone by trying to persuade him to accept people for who they are.

I understand that by doing that, I'm not accepting Dave for who he is, and therefore being hypocritical. But I believe that if someone's beliefs go so far as to harm and degrade someone else, then that person's beliefs should be argued with, and the person should be brought to reason.

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"Man hands down misery to man. It deepens like a coastal shelf. Get out as early as you can, and don't have any kids yourself."--Philip Larkin, "This Be the Verse"

Fear the wrath of the Grammar Wench, lest ye be cut down by the Glistening Scythe.
Posts: 1150 | Registered: Friday, May 17 2002 07:00
Guardian
Member # 2476
Profile #141
quote:
he's telling us that we're inferior to heterosexuals
No, I don't think that he believes this. He sees it more as a handicap that God does not approve of. You therefore have to fight your own nature to do God's will, meaning you have to live chaste. Such a choice would make him think very highly of you, and you would have his deep respect and support. If I understand him right, he feels that it is a burden or a cross you have to carry.
Divinity, as David sees it, is an authority who rules out a moral behaviour code for humanity.

I cannot agree with this vision. If that makes me unchristian, so be it.

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Polaris
Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00
Agent
Member # 366
Profile #142
"Judge not, lest ye be judged"

Also, according to the bible, we're all sinners anyway. No-one lives a completely pure life. and no sin is particularly worse than another.
At least my sins involve lots of naked, hedonistic pleasure.
I love my life, I'm a responsible, kind, generous person and never intentionally upset anyone. I think I'm basically a good person and the only person I'm likely to hurt with my sex games is myself.

[ Sunday, June 01, 2003 12:37: Message edited by: Princess Ruth ]

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I say never be complete. I say stop being perfect. I say let's evolve. Let the chips fall where they may.
Posts: 1277 | Registered: Sunday, December 9 2001 08:00
Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
Profile Homepage #143
quote:
Originally posted by Princess Ruth:

At least my sins involve lots of naked, hedonistic pleasure.

I wish mine did. You've got me jealous now. :)

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Grammar wenches beware:
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desperance.net - Leave your sanity at the door
Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
Profile #144
I was actually thanking X for a post he made before, but part of his most recent post reminded me of it.

As for the rest of you, I don't know what it is about my post but it certainly seems to have made some of you (Rnatallion-ish people, not RoR) see me a little mroe accurately. A flaming post is a strange way to do that, but hey...

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And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it.
-The Last Pendragon

TEH CONSPIRACY IZ ALL

Les forum de la chance.

In case of emergency, break glass.
Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00
Guardian
Member # 2476
Profile #145
You would not have met so much flaming, if you hadn't projected your moral code on others. It's quite alright to say: my belief doesn't permit this, so I will not do it. Please acknowledge that what you believe in is not the one and only truth that is. What you perceive as God's will can be worlds away from other people's perception of the divine.

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Polaris
Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3026
Profile #146
I'm sorry, but he's complaining about condescension?

Um... "you can overcome homosexuality, if you try hard enough..."

Again, if I logged on here and started talking about how I believed heterosexuality was bad, and relating heterosexuals to people who had to overcome big obstacles in life, and so on, how would you treat me?
Or if I logged on here and said the same about Christianity, Dave, what would you say?

Um, David, you can overcome your Christianity if you try hard enough.

Nonchristians: Aren't Christians sad? Pity them and their sorry little beliefs.

I can't help my orientation, Dave, any more than you can help your religion. You really believe in the teachings of the bible, I really believe its okay to be gay. Grow up.

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And this was very odd because
It was the middle of the night
- Lewis Carrol

well well well aren't we resilient

Oh the fun

Most generalizations are, unfortunately, true.
Posts: 212 | Registered: Sunday, May 25 2003 07:00
La Canaliste
DELETED
Member # 21
Profile #147
Oh dear. I think this is an example of an issue that is seriously overblown by our society.
We are all very hung up on sexuality, but ignore the much larger emphasis that the bible puts on social justice for example.
And if we really want to argue about biblical laws, how many evangelical Christians are standing by Peter's judgment that we refrain from eating blood? That juicy steak is in direct contravention of the commandment that non-Jewish Christians should refrain from immorality and eating blood.
If we wish to live by biblical teaching, then we have to take it all, and this includes "judge not that ye be not judged", "let whoever is without sin cast the first stone" and Paul's comment that all he had to preach to non-Christians is "Christ, and him crucified".
So... specifically Christian morality cannot apply to non-Christians, because they do not accept the basis on which it is predicated. Christians have to answer to their conscience and to God, realising that every one of us is a sinner and falls short of the glory of God, but that we are all called to grow to the full stature of Christ.

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KazeArctica: Oh yes.
KazeArctica: Oh YES
Posts: 93 | Registered: Sunday, September 30 2001 22:00
One Thousand Slimy Things
Member # 66
Profile #148
Here you are ranting about religion and poofs, but have we seen any pictures of the happy couple? HMM?

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Saundersw3: And bitter is better!
Posts: 995 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
La Canaliste
DELETED
Member # 21
Profile #149
quote:
Originally posted by ArcticFoxxy:
Here you are ranting about religion and poofs, but have we seen any pictures of the happy couple? HMM?
If "religion and poofs" are the happy couple, I am sure Khoth could find a few.

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KazeArctica: Oh yes.
KazeArctica: Oh YES
Posts: 93 | Registered: Sunday, September 30 2001 22:00

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