Poll for Atheists and Agnostics...
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Agent
Member # 14
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written Monday, May 26 2003 09:39
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We can see the atom, but not with our eyes. True, that's only because the wavelength of light is too large to pick up an individual atom, but we can detect them through other methods. Now if you contest that this is not really 'seeing,' you must consider what is seeing? Our eyes are just picking up radiation and converting it into something for our brains, how is an electron microscope any different? -------------------- Dragyn Bob "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here!"-The Divine Comedy Posts: 1481 | Registered: Thursday, September 27 2001 07:00 |
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Babelicious
Member # 39
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written Monday, May 26 2003 14:03
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Not to put this thread back on the original topic or anything, but I was born and raised in a Christian (Episcopal church) household, and am a nontheist. I don't have any real metaphysical beliefs about God or the afterlife or whatever; I don't think it really matters when you get down to it. It's about living your life on Earth and making the best of it. Philosophies I loosely identify with: taoism, zen Buddhism, Discordianism, Camus existentialism, Epicurianism. Way I see it, if you're not happy and comfortable with your life, you're doing something wrong. -------------------- desperance.net - honestly, no biting. Posts: 1074 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 3015
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written Monday, May 26 2003 14:15
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quote:Absolutly, if your life sucks its your fult and dont look for anyone or anything to come and fix it for you. I was raised jewish but belive that god does not care in this world, this is entertaiment for him/her/it/whatever. This life is all you get, ussualy, enjoy it. "don't worry, be happy" some song from I can't remeber who. -------------------- there is no spoon.-The MATRIX has you... Posts: 45 | Registered: Thursday, May 22 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Monday, May 26 2003 14:53
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I would disagree. Sometimes your life can suck and its absolutely not your fault. A good life, in my opinion, is one that you enjoy without impinging on others' enjoyment, and a great life is one that is enjoyed while helping others enjoy themselves more. —Alorael, who does believe in a God. Since God is almighty and all that, he presumably has a good system worked out for the afterlife or lack thereof. Since there's not much that can be done about it, there's no reason to worry. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 48
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written Monday, May 26 2003 15:20
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quote:Well... after all, a religion can be defined as a set of beliefs- it is not a science, and therefore can't be "supported" or "disproved" using scientific methods. :) There's one interesting link between religion and science, though: many famous scientists in history were, nevertheless, religious. Did anyone of you ever wonder why scientists like Newton, Einstein, etc. still believe in God? :rolleyes: -------------------- "Father, forgive them, for they don't know what they are doing.-Luke 23:34 Posts: 329 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 1506
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written Monday, May 26 2003 15:24
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About as often as I wonder what that has to do with their contributions to society. [ Monday, May 26, 2003 15:24: Message edited by: Hawkgirl ] -------------------- desperance.net -- Come on in, we don't bite. Well, I don't. Posts: 218 | Registered: Saturday, July 13 2002 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Monday, May 26 2003 15:29
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If I discovered more of the laws that keep our universe from spontaneously making absolutely no sense from moment to moment, I'd be pretty impressed by the planning that went into it too. —Alorael, who would say it all comes down to whether you think spontaneous creation or supreme, all-powerful being(s) are more likely. Both are far-fetched ideas, which is why there have been several thousand years of warfare, on and off, over who is right and who is wrong. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Babelicious
Member # 39
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written Monday, May 26 2003 15:37
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Funny you should mention Einstein. Albert Einstein was a man of great genius, but his religion crippled him from time to time -- look up the cosmological constant. -------------------- desperance.net - honestly, no biting. Posts: 1074 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Member # 165
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written Monday, May 26 2003 15:42
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Einstein was religious, but not belonging to any organized religion or even necessarily believing in God. It's a common legend that he was. -------------------- desperance -- je me souviens arena -- et je me souviens de vous Posts: 2449 | Registered: Monday, October 15 2001 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Monday, May 26 2003 16:22
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Asking why Newton believed in God is like asking why John Dalton didn't know about the existence of electrons. Until quite recently, it was difficult to support atheism on scientific grounds. And I'm pretty sure that Einstein's "God does not play dice" comment (which, by the way, is something of a liberal translation of what he actually said) was just his way of saying that he found quantum mechanics disturbing. It's hard to blame him for that. -------------------- I believe there are 15 747 724 136 275 002 577 105 653 961 181 555 468 044 717 914 527 116 709 366 231 425 076 185 631 031 296 protons in the universe, and the same number of electrons. -- Sir Arthur Eddington Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Monday, May 26 2003 16:28
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Alec- You mean he wasn't Jewish? I thought that was why he fled Germany (land of oppressing Gypsies and Jews) for America (land of oppressing homosexuals and minorities w/out mass murder). -------------------- We're all amazed but not amused By all the things that you said you'd do. You're much concerned but not involved by Decisions that are made by you But we are sick and tired of hearing your song, Telling us how you are going to change right from wrong, 'Cause if you really want to hear our views, You haven't done nothin'. Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Monday, May 26 2003 16:52
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Einstein saw himself as Jewish, but he did not affiliate himself with Jewish religious organizations. Still, he was a supporter of Zionism, and he did leave Germany because of Nazism. —Alorael, who remembers learning that Newton believes in God as the being who set the universe in motion and then sat back to watch it. That doesn't match the Judeochristian God very well. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 3015
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written Monday, May 26 2003 17:07
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quote:If that's true then I am the same, I also belive god set the world in motion then sat back and watched. Also there is a book that has an idea of how it realy happaned, it's in the vampire cronicals by Anne Rice it's called Memnoch the Devil. -------------------- there is no spoon.-The MATRIX has you... Posts: 45 | Registered: Thursday, May 22 2003 07:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Monday, May 26 2003 22:08
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Have you ever wondered why scientists like Dirac, Feynman and Dawkins don't believe in God? Making lists of scientists is a pointless game that goes both ways. -------------------- Grammar wenches beware: This is the house that the malt that the rat that the cat that the dog that the cow that the maiden that the man that the priest that the cock that the farmer kept waked married kissed milked tossed worried killed ate lay in. My Website desperance.net - Leave your sanity at the door Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 58
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written Tuesday, May 27 2003 04:43
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There were also times in the past when not publicly believing in a Christian god in Europe either led you to be persecuted or discriminated against. A long while ago. I read a story of a fairly well known scientist in the 1800s (I forget his name) whose Jewish father attended a Christian church just to improve his chances for admission into a university. Posts: 286 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 496
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written Wednesday, May 28 2003 03:44
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Funny how Amon-Ra echoes Beckett: "He doesn't exist, the [expletive]!" It suggests he (I assume the same gender applies as to the Egyptian deity) is unsure in his unbelief. It seems a waste to hate something that doesn't exist, especially with such vehemence. I won't bore contributors with a long discussion of the problem of origin and the problem of evil - both old chestnuts. My concern is that the scientific paradigm that's replaced Judeo-Christianity seems an inadequate basis for ethics. Even a hard-core determinist like Dawkins--who happens to lecture just down the road from me--is embarassed enough by this to equivocate about it in the intros to most of his books. Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Wednesday, May 28 2003 09:00
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Science, with the possible exception of psychology, is amoral, but that shouldn't be a problem since most people don't live their lives by the principles of, say, biology. The problem is that religion provided an ethical code, and the vacuum has not been filled by anything. Society (yes, that vague and omnipresent institution) should be able to replace churches as the moral guide, but most educational institutions seem less and less willing to discuss ethics and morals when hard facts are so much easier to deal with. —Alorael, who supposes certain extremely "devout" capitalists would say that ethics are entirely unnecessary, but social Darwinism hasn't had a brilliant track record so far. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Thursday, May 29 2003 13:24
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Religion only provides a basis for morality if you assume that the fact that a being is omnipotent and created the universe gives it unquestionable moral authority. To me, this does not seem a self-evident assumption even if such a being exists. -------------------- I believe there are 15 747 724 136 275 002 577 105 653 961 181 555 468 044 717 914 527 116 709 366 231 425 076 185 631 031 296 protons in the universe, and the same number of electrons. -- Sir Arthur Eddington Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 1359
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written Thursday, May 29 2003 22:31
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quote:I live my life by the principles of biology. They are, however, only a framework which I build around. -------------------- ~ §øСüm ©ÿªñ¡Ðë ~ Mission Ridge -- All Your Snow Are Belong to Us. Posts: 1277 | Registered: Monday, June 24 2002 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 2581
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written Thursday, May 29 2003 23:29
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Well, theoretically at least, we all build our lives around the principles of biology- you'd soon enough say that you build your daily activities around the principles of physics, that you base your community habits around sociology, or that you studied chemistry once in high school and somehow remember that the chemical formula for water is H2O. They're all true for absolutely everyone. ;) As per the topic goes, my beliefs are perhaps best approximated as Christian-flavored fluff. I like God. If he exists and all this prayery stuff is true, I'd like to claim Jesus as a friend of mine. I like the image of the semi-detached creator, who from time to time sends interesting situations to his meandering creations, just to see how they react... And, of course, if I turn out to be wrong, no big deal in my mind- I wind up as worm food either way and all I might've really missed out on was that one great big nifty concert that I so wanted to go to when I was twelve. Shucks. I figure God would probably be willing to forgive everything else, as that seems to be something S/He is a fan of anyway and I can't possibly be any worse (or any better, really) than anyone else. -------------------- Stuff? Don't mind if I do, thanks. This may, in fact, be a long, rambling post without much bearing on the topic of the thread. Consider yourself warned. Posts: 32 | Registered: Monday, February 3 2003 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 1752
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written Friday, May 30 2003 10:46
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quote:You know, I'm getting pretty damn tired of people assuming that a few blithering idiots (aka, religious zealots) are representative of an entire religion. And if that is the implication here, than whatever respect I had for you, Red Scare, has vanished. Just as Bin ladin isn't a good example of a Muslim, because he is a radical extreamist bent on destruction, where as your average Muslim is not, because Osama is worth millions where as your average Muslim, especially in the Middle East, is not, and because Osama Bin ladin sees nothing wrong with the senseless slaughter of innocents, where as your average Muslim does have a moral code that generally prohibits killing. The same goes for this site. It is stupid and extreamist, and the implication that somehow every Christian, or even (as here) anyone with any religion should go to this site, as a way to convince them to abandon thier religion is not only a clear logical fallacy, it is also an unconcionable misrepresentation. Posts: 24 | Registered: Saturday, August 17 2002 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 496
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written Friday, May 30 2003 11:06
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Er, actually I think this thread was started by a Christian as an attempt to challenge the unbelief of atheists and agnostics. Why do you feel the need to defend your faith? What we don't believe is our loss, surely? Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00 |
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This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 147
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written Friday, May 30 2003 12:17
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TM is not Christian. And Landover Baptist Church is not a serious website. And you are gullible. Very gullible. Posts: 1000 | Registered: Thursday, October 11 2001 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 1169
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written Friday, May 30 2003 12:41
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I've never understood why people are always trying to "save" Atheists and agnostics. I mean, most of them don't even think of us as people (Bush certainly doesn't; he made a statement about how Atheists shouldn't be considered citizens or patriots because this is "one nation under God"), so why bother with our misguided souls? We're evil and deranged. Do Christians believe that for every soul they "save" they get bonus points in heaven or something? I used to be Christian, myself. When I was eleven or so, I realized how far-fetched and hypocritical it was and renounced it. I don't think that there's a God in the sense of the trinity, and I don't believe Jesus was divine, or that there were any real prophets. I suppose I believe more in a being who set the universe in motion and then left us to fend for ourselves...I can't exactly justify full-blown Atheism, because I figure something had to have started the Big Bang. I guess I believe that if there ever was a god, it isn't there anymore, or it's completely ignoring us. I'm a pseudo-Atheist. -------------------- "Man hands down misery to man. It deepens like a coastal shelf. Get out as early as you can, and don't have any kids yourself."--Philip Larkin, "This Be the Verse" Fear the wrath of the Grammar Wench, lest ye be cut down by the Glistening Scythe. Posts: 1150 | Registered: Friday, May 17 2002 07:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Friday, May 30 2003 12:47
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Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that was the older Bush (who has no idea how to sensibly name a child) -------------------- Grammar wenches beware: This is the house that the malt that the rat that the cat that the dog that the cow that the maiden that the man that the priest that the cock that the farmer kept waked married kissed milked tossed worried killed ate lay in. My Website desperance.net - Leave your sanity at the door Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |