Are Drakons superior beings?

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AuthorTopic: Are Drakons superior beings?
Infiltrator
Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #0
A simple question with a (possibly) complex answer. Do you consider Drakons to be superior to all other creations, humans and Shapers? Why or why not?

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 52 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

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VIVE LA TAKERS!
VIVE LA REBELLION!
VIVE LA GHALDRING!
Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #1
Haha, no. But Tullegolar, a drakon can beat a human in a fight. Yeah, well, a polar bear can, too, but who's destroying who's habitat? Drakons don't scare me, they're too busy fighting amongst themselves anyway. They're more arrogant as well, but with less reason to be so.

Drakons seems more powerful because they shape themselves. When humans shape themselves, they're even better. They like to do things like... I don't know... create drakons to serve them.

Also, for those suckers out there who claim compassion makes a superior being, drakons are not capable of compassion, so there's another point for humans.

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
Profile #2
Drakons... Big arrogant lizards.

With tiny bite sized brains. Mmm brains.

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If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish.

Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish.
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00
Infiltrator
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Profile Homepage #3
Emp, are you saying that Drakons can't create even more powerful Drakons of their own?

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VIVE LA TAKERS!
VIVE LA REBELLION!
VIVE LA GHALDRING!
Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #4
When did I say that?

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Too Sexy for my Title
Member # 5654
Profile #5
quote:
Originally written by Delicious Vlish:

Drakons... Big arrogant lizards.

With tiny bite sized brains. Mmm brains.

Exactly!
Posts: 1035 | Registered: Friday, April 1 2005 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #6
Emp:
quote:

When did I say that?

You seemed to imply that Shaped humans being able to create Drakons somehow made them superior to Drakons. I just want to point out that Drakons can create even more powerful Drakons, and that they are far better at it than any Shaped Shaper.

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VIVE LA TAKERS!
VIVE LA REBELLION!
VIVE LA GHALDRING!
Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5566
Profile #7
No humans are far superiour to Drakons. But drakons are second in line, and will soon pass if shapers don't make even better canisters.
Posts: 507 | Registered: Tuesday, March 1 2005 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 3828
Profile #8
Drakons, Cthulu its all one big giant mess.

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Morbo is pleased but sticky...
Posts: 33 | Registered: Sunday, December 28 2003 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #9
quote:
Originally written by Waylander:

You seemed to imply that Shaped humans being able to create Drakons somehow made them superior to Drakons.
It does. Not because drakons can also create drakons, but because drakons can not create humans.

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
Profile #10
It should be noted that Shaper brains are delicious too. Not a walnut sized snack like Drakon brains, but more of a meal.

Canister crazy brains do taste a little funny though. And something about the canister process makes the brain chewy and spongey, almost as if part of it had died off.

I bet Tully's brain would be like eating string cheese. :P

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If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish.

Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish.
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00
Warrior
Member # 8165
Profile #11
No,Drakons are not superior beings,nobody is superior to anyone,everything is equal...of course the Drakons are too arrogant to agree.

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R.R
Posts: 179 | Registered: Friday, February 23 2007 08:00
Cartographer
Member # 995
Profile #12
right. all humans are equal to all drakons. of course. which is why humans don't need tons of advanced magic, armor, and weaponry to face a drakon without being slaughtered.
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but physical superiority isn't the only kind of superiority, as pointed out in this thread. it's just ridiculous to say 'all beings are equal.'

they might be equal in value, and should be treated equally by law, but some beings just have some capabilities they are superior in. I will never be as fast or strong as any athelete. I am not their equal. I'm not necessarily inferior, because of my other talents, but I'm not interchangeable with them.

[ Wednesday, March 14, 2007 10:43: Message edited by: -silver- ]
Posts: 206 | Registered: Thursday, April 18 2002 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 6136
Profile #13
Considering the single being they are obviously supperior to anything, except maybe to eyebeast in power. But they can be powerful but their race will never klast so long as the humasn, because their madness for power will consume them all some day...
Also there is a lot of more humans out there.
Considering that even the drayk race could be supperior.
Posts: 446 | Registered: Friday, July 22 2005 07:00
Agent
Member # 27
Profile #14
IMAGE(http://content.vcommerce.com/products/fullsize/411/465411.jpg)
My opinion in a picture. We all know how this one turns out.
Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #15
Emp:
quote:

It does. Not because drakons can also create drakons, but because drakons can not create humans.

Your logic is flawed and fallacious, something which I have come to expect from you. While Drakons cannot/will not create humans (I fail to see why they would want to, anyway...), neither can the Shapers. Why condemn the Drakons for lacking the ability to 'create' humans, but conveniently ignore the fact that Shapers also cannot Shape humans? Quite simply, you're applying double standards.

No doubt you'll fall back on the argument that Drakons were initially created by Shapers, hence the Shapers are superior, as the 'creator' must always be superior to its creation. I find such logic specious, given that humans are a product of evolution from ancestors that we would consider intellectually and physically inferior to modern day homo sapiens.

[ Wednesday, March 14, 2007 15:36: Message edited by: Waylander ]

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VIVE LA TAKERS!
VIVE LA REBELLION!
VIVE LA GHALDRING!
Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 6816
Profile Homepage #16
quote:
humans are a product of evolution
Exactly, we were not created, we evolved, the drakons were made in a lab.

<loyalist propoganda>And the Shapers say they aren't superior, and the Shapers only say things that are true. </loyalist propoganda>

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i eat serviles for breakfast.
I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.
Posts: 42 | Registered: Monday, February 20 2006 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #17
adal:
quote:

Exactly, we were not created, we evolved,the drakons were made in a lab.

Your observation is irrelevant. I'm not getting into a semantical debate about 'evolve' and 'create'. I'd argue that humans were created... via evolution. The fact of the matter is that evolution is the perfect example of the concept that superior (and more complex) beings/constructs can arise from inferior beings/constructs.

It's presumptious and logically fallicious to assume that the creator is always superior to his creation, or that a descendent is always inferior to his ancestor.

Another fantastic example is AI, which is a product of humanity. Computers are superior to humans in the aspect of calculation power (as Deep Blue proved).

I seriously doubt that anyone here would argue that Eass is superior to Ghaldring, despite the fact that Ghaldring was created by Eass...

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VIVE LA TAKERS!
VIVE LA REBELLION!
VIVE LA GHALDRING!
Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 6816
Profile Homepage #18
Fine, I'll admit created things are not always inferior, or superior, to their creators, but i still believe drakons are inferior to humans.

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i eat serviles for breakfast.
I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.
Posts: 42 | Registered: Monday, February 20 2006 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #19
Waylander, you misunderstand, it's not the fact that drakons can't make humans that makes them inferior, it's the fact that no one can make humans. A human is a complex being, capable of much adaptation, personality, emotion, pursuits, you name it. Drakons were made to be killing machines, it is their entire teleology. They can never know things like philisophy, art... love. If I believed in souls, I would say with certainty that drakons have none.

If humans win this war, they will continue to grow and evolve in a time of peace. Can you say the same for the drakons? Can they really know anything other than destruction? They will turn on their fellow creation, no doubt, then probably each other, until the world is a smouldering ruin. I'll admit they are superior when it comes to destruction, but when it comes to creation, humans are the superior being. And creation is everything.

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #20
As someone who's so eager to use devices designed to turn their users into killing machines, I'd think you'd have a certain degree of fellow feeling for a creature designed from the ground up to be a killing machine.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #21
What, you expect Emperor Tullegolar to show some respect for mere creations?

As a whole, drakons are inferior characters. There are so few named drakons compared to named humans and serviles, and the ones that are named have such similar personalities that they're just less interesting, storywise. If there were drakons wondering whether they were doing the right thing or as shopkeepers willing to tell you a few interesting things about themselves, that would make them better.

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #22
Emp:
quote:

Waylander, you misunderstand,

Then perhaps you should express yourself more clearly?

quote:

it's not the fact that drakons can't make humans that makes them inferior, it's the fact that no one can make humans.

Your assertion that 'no-one' can make humans is an unsupported assumption. For all we know, Drakons can Shape humans, but just don't feel the need to do so.

quote:

A human is a complex being,

And how is a Drakon not complex? Sentience, sapience, an innate ability to Shape, and the ability to rally their fellow creations and fight an organized war against the most powerful known Empire (aka. The Shapers), are all not evidence of a Drakon's complexity?

quote:

capable of much adaptation, personality, emotion, pursuits, you name it.

So is a Drakon. So is a Servile. So is a Battle Alpha. So is a Drayk. 'Adaptation, personality, emotion, pursuits,' and all that other junk have been demonstrated by many species in the Geneforge series.

quote:

They can never know things like philisophy, art... love.

More BS assumptions on your behalf. Just because Drakons aren't demonstrated to have a love for art in the game doesn't mean that they do not. After all, it's never mentioned in the game that Shapers/ordinary humans have a love for art.

quote:

If I believed in souls, I would say with certainty that drakons have none.

That's nice. Too bad it's just another baseless assumption of yours.

[quote
If humans win this war, they will continue to grow and evolve in a time of peace.
[/quote]

Another assumption. Opinion, not fact.

quote:

Can you say the same for the drakons?

Well, actually, yes. In fact, one of the key issues in Geneforge is that Drakons can continuously evolve, becoming better and better.

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VIVE LA TAKERS!
VIVE LA REBELLION!
VIVE LA GHALDRING!
Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #23
Waylander, Drakons can only evolve by exchange. They continue to trade sanity and intellect for raw power. Eventually, they will become the Unbound, only worse.

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May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #24
Alright Waylander, I guess this isn't a real discussion anymore. Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? What you're saying is like someone saying "oh, well, just because monkeys have never written an award winning novel doesn't mean they aren't capable, that's just your opinion." Please, is that the best you can do? I have based all my arguments on what I have encountered in the games, nothing more, nothing less. You wouldn't happen to have any game related evidence yourself, would you?

Edit: Oh, and yes, there was a mention of Shaper art in Geneforge I.

[ Thursday, March 15, 2007 18:00: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ]

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00

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