Avernum V ideas

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AuthorTopic: Avernum V ideas
Shock Trooper
Member # 549
Profile #25
I think that fighters should be able to do more. Mages and Priests have always had a large variety of spells to cast but fighters only have two options, bash or shoot. It would be nice if fighters could learn some techniques like blind enemy or shield friend.
Posts: 227 | Registered: Thursday, January 24 2002 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 6857
Profile #26
MAN! I love suggestion threads. Avernum V should have it's own forum IMO.
Let's start.

quote:
Hmmmm, I think a good idea would be where your players have an age
No! I'm sure that most people wan't to explore the game universe as much as possible and don't want their characters to suddenly die at ageing.

quote:
Race:Orc
The Avernum world is unique. It should not be spoiled with mass-fantasy races.

About specific items: I'm not sure if we should invent a magical items. It should be Jeff's job. It's not cool to know already what secret magical items there are in the game. They must be surprises.

quote:
IMHO, I think the reload system with the batons in the GF series was quite cool. So maybe in A5 you can have ammo again, and you can carry as many arrows as you like. However, you can only carry a certain amount in your current quiver, and you have to either reload when it runs out, or manually reload whenever you feel like it.
Yeah. Give back the arrows. Then there is more options wich to choose. Though carrying hundreds of arrows with you isn't very realistic. That quiver idea is good, IMO.

quote:
I think that fighters should be able to do more. Mages and Priests have always had a large variety of spells to cast but fighters only have two options, bash or shoot. It would be nice if fighters could learn some techniques like blind enemy or shield friend.
Yeah! In A4 the fighters were able to lower the enemy's aps by hitting them hard. That was a good invention. They should get more things like that. Parry and riposte were cool. But what about disarm? Or ability to strike enemy to ground?

Now here's some thoughts of mine:
Bring back the bashing weapons.

Also potion making should be brought back. But potions should be more effective. It's not very realistic that you carry around dozens of healing potions.

Separate place for bracers and gauntlets. In A4 you couldn't have gloves if you had bracers. It doesn't make sense!

Looks. The character's looks should relay on what he is wearing. If he has helmet, you should be able to see him wearing helmet. If he has greatsword, he should have such in his hands. This means lots of work with graphics. But it looks so stupid that halberd looks like spear and greatsword looks like normal sword. A4 didn't even have shields!
And no more monsters that look like the player's characters with differend colours.

EDIT:

Bigger and more original enemies. All the A4's enemies were damn small and not so spectacular. Drake was smaller than a normal man! That was an outrage!
If there is an ogre with specific model, the "ogre badass" must not be only the same model with differend colour for Erika's sake!
Making differend graphics is hard and time consuming work, but I appreciate a work that is done well, even if it takes more time.

I remember the pleasant surprise when I encountered that HUGE alien slime in A3. I really didn't expect anything like that.

[ Saturday, June 03, 2006 08:04: Message edited by: avv ]
Posts: 18 | Registered: Sunday, March 5 2006 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 6908
Profile #27
Was it only in Exile series, when during an encouter your enemies started to flee when heavily outnumbered? I can't remember such thing in Avernum series except for casting terror. I think I miss the feeling of chasing the prey from Exile.

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9 masks sing in a choir:
Gnome Dwarf Slith
Giant Troll Troglo
Human Nephil Vahnatai
"If the mask under mask to SE of mask to the left of mask and to the right of me is the mask below the mask to the right of mask to the right of mask below me is the same, then who am I?"

radix: +2 nicothodes: +1 salmon:+1
Posts: 203 | Registered: Tuesday, March 14 2006 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #28
I've never had enemies run in Exile. Outdoor wandering encounters disappear without a fight if your level is high enough (like high Cave/Nature Lore in Avernum) but you can never shout boo and watch your foes panic.

—Alorael, who doesn't understand how one could wear bracers and gauntlets. Unless gloves and bracers get one slot each and gauntlets fill both, which would be a pain, it's not really worthwhile. And there aren't any bracers in Avernum anyway. Changing sprites for equipment are simply too expensive to happen.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
Profile #29
And Jeff is going to keep using color shifts unless he dethrones EA. Graphics are expensive.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Guardian
Member # 6670
Profile Homepage #30
I don't know about Exile, but enemies did run away from you in some of the Avernums; BoA and A4, at the least.

Most of the time they ran away when severly wounded, or because they were scripted to. In BoA (and presumably in A4), there's the ability to manipulate a creature's 'courage' (change of running away). So it's possible to create a creature script which periodically checks the number of friendly and unfriendly creatures nearby, and alters its courage accordingly.

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IF I EVER BECOME AN EVIL OVERLORD:
Before appointing someone as my trusted lieutenant, I will conduct a thorough background investigation and security clearance.
Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 643
Profile #31
in A2 once you are down to 1 or 2 weak enemies they tended to run.

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Fine Meal is people!!!
Posts: 289 | Registered: Saturday, February 16 2002 08:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #32
Didn't Exile have a Fear spell? And some kind of Morale stat?

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #33
Yup.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Agent
Member # 4506
Profile Homepage #34
The Exile Trilogy had a spell for just about everything. I think everyone misses the old spells, but since Avernum's combat is so much easier, there's no need to make the enemies run away...
Posts: 1370 | Registered: Thursday, June 10 2004 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 6908
Profile #35
quote:
Originally written by Nigh For Dinner:

I've never had enemies run in Exile. Outdoor wandering encounters disappear without a fight if your level is high enough (like high Cave/Nature Lore in Avernum) but you can never shout boo and watch your foes panic.
That's weird. Because I'm pretty sure they did run. The question is do they run in Exile 2 and 3, since I remember for sure only the Escape from the Pit for that option. When you fight some brigands with evil priests e.g., when all Archers,Melee fighters are dead it is 100% the priest is moving to the far-from-your-party end to leave. And he does so unless you catch up with him and kill him.
quote:
Originally written by Archmagus Micael:

The Exile Trilogy had a spell for just about everything. I think everyone misses the old spells, but since Avernum's combat is so much easier, there's no need to make the enemies run away...
Eventually the retreat is a good option for any fight, which shows some sort of intellect for your enemies. I didn't see fighting engine for A4, is there a possibility to hide beyond an obstackle (not a wall, but a stone for example), aka sit down move?
I would like to see Rentar retreat in final fight in A3, making another possible storyline for A4 :c)))

[ Monday, June 05, 2006 00:09: Message edited by: Ford Prefect ]

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9 masks sing in a choir:
Gnome Dwarf Slith
Giant Troll Troglo
Human Nephil Vahnatai
"If the mask under mask to SE of mask to the left of mask and to the right of me is the mask below the mask to the right of mask to the right of mask below me is the same, then who am I?"

radix: +2 nicothodes: +1 salmon:+1
Posts: 203 | Registered: Tuesday, March 14 2006 08:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #36
quote:
Originally written by Ford Prefect:

That's weird. Because I'm pretty sure they did run. The question is do they run in Exile 2 and 3, since I remember for sure only the Escape from the Pit for that option. When you fight some brigands with evil priests e.g., when all Archers,Melee fighters are dead it is 100% the priest is moving to the far-from-your-party end to leave. And he does so unless you catch up with him and kill him.
I've seen this behaviour too, in games as recent as BoE. Spellcasters actively move away from the party during combat, and I'm pretty sure they occasionally escape from outdoor fights entirely.

[ Monday, June 05, 2006 05:04: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #37
The earlier engines were alot better in getting the monsters out of there when the going got tough. In A4 the monsters ran up to get whacked and only ran away when they were almost dead. My favorite was to acid spray a monster so it ran up and died at my feet. It saved time in getting their treasure.

In A1, the monsters used to pick up items that appeared when another monster died and if useful they used it. So there would be in the Nephilim castle west of Formello a goblin would pick up a healing potion for it action and use it in the next round if you didn't kill it.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 6908
Profile #38
So? This is just a spam post to up the thread for more ideas. Huh?
By the way, does anybody need them at all? :confused:

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Voices tell me I shouldn't have posted such questions without having a good idea to suggest. Still I tell them, I did already a little. I think.

[ Wednesday, June 07, 2006 22:20: Message edited by: Ford Prefect ]

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9 masks sing in a choir:
Gnome Dwarf Slith
Giant Troll Troglo
Human Nephil Vahnatai
"If the mask under mask to SE of mask to the left of mask and to the right of me is the mask below the mask to the right of mask to the right of mask below me is the same, then who am I?"

radix: +2 nicothodes: +1 salmon:+1
Posts: 203 | Registered: Tuesday, March 14 2006 08:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #39
So that post is meant to bump the thread up again? Jeff doesn't take any player ideas, so these threads are just a place for player discussion. And when players run out of things to discuss, it might be better just to let the thread die.

Dikiyoba is a little late now, but Dikiyoba seems to recall NPCs grabbing and using items in A2, but only very rarely.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 6908
Profile #40
quote:
Originally by Dikiyoba:
And when players run out of things to discuss, it might be better just to let the thread die.
I prefer to disagree to this statement. It is never better. But that's my philosophy.
No new ideas for today, but may be tomorrow. May be we shall make a schedule, when every player on Spiderweb Boards shall put in an idea?

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Voices continue telling me it is time to shut up. Also one voice is asking since when do I have "my philosophy"?

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9 masks sing in a choir:
Gnome Dwarf Slith
Giant Troll Troglo
Human Nephil Vahnatai
"If the mask under mask to SE of mask to the left of mask and to the right of me is the mask below the mask to the right of mask to the right of mask below me is the same, then who am I?"

radix: +2 nicothodes: +1 salmon:+1
Posts: 203 | Registered: Tuesday, March 14 2006 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 7218
Profile Homepage #41
It would be cool if in AVN5 you could duel wield like in Exile. And there should be way more items in AVN5. Also the characters movement is wierd b/c they just stand there and magically teleport to the nearest square while moveing.

AVN5 should have more actions for characters like heal yourself, or mounts.
Also, Spiderwebsoftware should combine the Genefore engine and the Avernum engine even MORE
Example: When you move around in the game, you actually MOVE. (like in Geneforge)
Also when u wear armor or weapons, you should see them on the characteres.
And you should be able to summon kobolds and Basilisks (at high levels)

PS: whats the level cap for avernum 4??? :confused:

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Fish...Hats...Caramel Apples...Its all here ╙j╙
Posts: 4 | Registered: Tuesday, June 13 2006 07:00
Warrior
Member # 5302
Profile #42
quote:
Originally written by Snoflake:

It would be cool if in AVN5 you could duel wield like in Exile. And there should be way more items in AVN5. Also the characters movement is wierd b/c they just stand there and magically teleport to the nearest square while moveing.

AVN5 should have more actions for characters like heal yourself, or mounts.
Also, Spiderwebsoftware should combine the Genefore engine and the Avernum engine even MORE
Example: When you move around in the game, you actually MOVE. (like in Geneforge)
Also when u wear armor or weapons, you should see them on the characteres.
And you should be able to summon kobolds and Basilisks (at high levels)

PS: whats the level cap for avernum 4??? :confused:

You don't need walking animations, nor do you need a paper doll engine. They look nice, but I'd be more interested in interesting gameplay.

I don't see the need for mounts...especially with the way the world is set up now, with no division between towns and outdoor sections.

What I'd like to see is some more interesting combat options for melee warriors- I liked the way you could slow enemies running past you, but it would be nice if they could get a few more options- perhaps using spear should allow you to hit someone two squares away, or a larger weapon could hit them back a square.
Posts: 70 | Registered: Sunday, December 19 2004 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 7216
Profile #43
Hello People!
I just want to know if anyone else didn't like A4 because it was so much like Geneforge. There is probably a reason behind this, but the reason I haven't played A4 in ages is that I don't like the gameplay style. I wish A5 would use the old Avernum modes instead of looking like Geneforge with Avernum plot. :(

So sorry- just ignore me, I don't know what has/n't been said.

[ Tuesday, June 13, 2006 13:41: Message edited by: Green Apple ]

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Apple.elqqA
Posts: 18 | Registered: Monday, June 12 2006 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #44
quote:
Originally written by Green Apple:

I just want to know if anyone else didn't like A4 because it was so much like Geneforge.
My response to you is the same as my response to this guy.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #45
There's no hard level cap for A4, but I think the most experience you can practically get by killing everything that moves and doing every quest with the heftiest experience bonus traits would get you to somewhere around level 45.

[Edit: A slip of the old Freud, wot?]

—Alorael, who wouldn't worry about it. A4 is definitely not a game with a shortage of experience. The problem is the soft cap of diminishing returns.

[ Tuesday, June 13, 2006 17:14: Message edited by: Dilapidation of Duty ]
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #46
Originally by Alorael:

quote:
There's no hard level cap for A5...
That's good to know. So, when do the rest of us get to play it? :P

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 7219
Profile #47
Yes, exile 3 at least did have enemies who retreated when outnumbered in combat, and losing units. Or it mihgt have been ranged units trying to find a suitable range and running offscreen from your party as they were chased. It is just that I remember demons running offscreen, and empire archers ect.

I found the barrier spells of Exile very useful for getting items that were impossible to ever get any other way. I would put up a force barrier, and loot Fort Avernum. This is a n easy way to blind others to your actions, but you must have developed the spell to get accomplish that first. The sheer versatility of the spells in those games allowed you to do far more, such as planting quickfire in Sharamik, and closing the door as you retreated and left everyone to burn after stealing everything. And I think openness is what the Avernum series has over Exile, with far more quests, but less customization of weapon choices and strategies, which is dissapointing.

However, none of us would be here without Vogel's inspired ideas and hesitation to become too mainstream. It is why we love his games. His games, you see, which means if he let anyone's ideas in, it won't be anything random. Plus his living is made out of creating better ideas than we do. We don't have our own games, so what he decides to put in, we play. More spells is an asset, but we'll have to see what happens.

I would like to see tunnel battles and narrow bridge battles and wall battles to give a strategic and tactical feel. Quickfire from off a wall, like destroying was it Smog's den in A2? Creating ruins from cities. The decay of towns over time, like is already in the cities. These give us the sense of reality passing. Days might progress faster though? It seems to me that you can go through so fast none of the timed events really happen. I remember having to wait 18 days or so just to do the quest in A3 in the portal tower. The game can be beat in 30-40 days discounting the wait for the tower, if not faster if you try. Being rewarded for speed would be great, or faster passing time.

I'd like to see the party face a Geneforge style shaper/agent/guardian party, who has been transported through a shaper misshap though, and locked themselves in some vault the party must explore. imagine the tension of players in the know when they find a book describing how people called shapers appeared here after a mishap, and then must fight a guardian, a while later, the agen, and at teh end a shaper. Shaped swords ect. The technicalities arn't too difficult. stranger randomish events have occured. BOOM! I am a Vahnati. Come far below the earth and find me! You see?

Anyway, for my first post I don't want to act like some professional or in any way say my ideas are superior to the game product. My own two cents. I am sure I'll have more to say sometime, but for now, tell me what you think.
Posts: 2 | Registered: Tuesday, June 13 2006 07:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #48
Originally by Valchrist:

quote:
However, none of us would be here without Vogel's inspired ideas and hesitation to become too mainstream. It is why we love his games. His games, you see, which means if he let anyone's ideas in, it won't be anything random. Plus his living is made out of creating better ideas than we do. We don't have our own games, so what he decides to put in, we play. More spells is an asset, but we'll have to see what happens.
Dikiyoba agrees.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
BANNED
Member # 5663
Profile #49
An interesting side quest could be a temporal rift or something of the like that sends the party to an alternate dimension (possibly Exile, with its minute differences from Avernum) with old-school 2D graphics.

[ Tuesday, June 13, 2006 18:31: Message edited by: Mister Fox ]

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I'm drunk as think as you not am I.
Posts: 64 | Registered: Sunday, April 3 2005 08:00

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