Avernum V ideas
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Apprentice
Member # 7216
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written Monday, June 26 2006 14:04
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quote:I agree that this would be helpful, although I haven't had a problem with lighting myself... I was wondering if anyone had talked about adding another race of character? It would be more logical that all of the different races encountered could become adventurers, not just humans, sliths, and nephils. Having said this, I have an official disclaimer: I don't believe this needs to be done in any way, shape or form, but it is an interesting thought... -------------------- Apple.elqqA Posts: 18 | Registered: Monday, June 12 2006 07:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Monday, June 26 2006 16:02
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quote:Yes, many times. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Monday, June 26 2006 16:09
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Originally by Micro Phage: quote:Given the number of people who have complained about how difficult it is to see things, even with their monitors turned all the way up, I think that would be a very good idea. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Monday, June 26 2006 18:21
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You don't need to adjust the light level if you pick better colors for the backround versus items. Black and dark colors don't contrast enough with bodies and a few other items. In Geneforge 3 I originally missed an item because the 3D wall blocked my view and I only found it by accident when the mouse cursor lit it up. This happens in A4 near the Tower of the Magi where the Tinker's gloves are on a body in an arachnea lair. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 7213
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written Monday, June 26 2006 22:17
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quote:How can you do this from within A4, (or G3 for that matter) without manually adjusting your monitor? Or were you suggesting that as a new feature in A5 Options? Background colors customizing? [ Saturday, July 01, 2006 19:53: Message edited by: Micro Phage ] -------------------- Aide: (tugging at General's pant leg from ground..) "Sir! Please get down!" General: "What!?! They couldn't hit a Giant from that dist..." Posts: 181 | Registered: Monday, June 12 2006 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Tuesday, June 27 2006 04:34
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quote:I believe Randomizer meant that perhaps Jeff will pick better, more contrasting colors for backgrounds when he makes A5. The problem isn't something that we could solve from this end without some form of hack. -------------------- Thuryl: "Runescape: for people who are too stupid to save their games." Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3513
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written Tuesday, June 27 2006 08:20
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I've probably said this before, but I want potion making back, and also made more useful. For example, in addition to the stock healing/blessing/curing/whatever potions, you should be able to make poisons and acids to apply to your weapons, or exploding potions useable as weapons. -------------------- Nobody appreciates me. It's all "Igor! Fetch some wine!" "Igor! Clean up this experiment!" or "Igor! Bury this in the garden, we're leaving town in 10 minutes!" —Alorael, who tried to become a deivore once. The priest gave him a funny look after the third wafer. Posts: 301 | Registered: Thursday, October 2 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, June 27 2006 14:06
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Poison can be concocted by alchemy in Exile, but I don't think anyone uses alchemy to make poison. —Alorael, whose sole use of poison comes from the Major Blessing spell, and if he could save a couple of spell points by omitting the poison he'd do so without a second thought. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Tuesday, June 27 2006 15:23
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Now if poison would actually be useful...that would be different. Combat would need to be long enough for it to take effect. Also, if it would temporarily weaken stats, that would be help a lot. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 7261
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written Wednesday, June 28 2006 02:18
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Hi, everyone, first post... the following's been bugging me for a while and this thread seemed to be the perfect place to put it. So... "one" thing I'd like to see in the next Avernum game, which has been brewing in the back of my mind for the past couple days since I first gave it any thought... More "traditional Avernite" Stone Age weaponry. It seems really weird to me that, for instance, the sliths who only live underground would be good with full-length polearms - where does the wood for the shafts come from? And why make a stone short sword (a real-life version of which might snap if you gripped it too tightly) if an axe head secured to a sturdy femur would most likely do far more damage without losing its (admittedly dull) edge? So, as a rough list of the things that would be totally awesome... Knives: I'd like to see these get a little more prominence. A culture that emphasizes the importance of the simple, all-purpose knife - be it stone, bronze, or steel - could really help give Avernum the "resourceful frontier folk" feel. Whips: short, long, barbed, studded with little obsidian bits, made from the business end of an ooze crawler, it's all good. Probably paired with an off-hand knife, the whip both defending and making openings for the knife to strike. I think this kind of fighting would work very nicely for the nephilim. Clubs/hammers/maces/axes: Head and femur mentioned above. Possibly throwable. Flails: I'm imagining three main components: a 2' handle of bone or wood, a 1' strap of braided leather, and a knobby tin or copper ball hollowed out and filled with lead. Bronze or steel rings might fit the pieces together on more expensive models. Nunchaku: Pretty much the same as flails. Slings: I'm a bit surprised these disappeared after Nethergate or so, since they seemed to be the perfect cheap Iron Age underdog's equalizer. There are enough rivers in the caves to provide the stones. Bolas: Leather straps and rocks. Could be string, too, but I'm still assuming some limited plant fibers at the time they'd become popular. Staffs: Bone or bronze nine-section whip. Possibly secured with spider silk. Bows: The image in my head is perhaps best described by the neologism, "mongolpunk". A twisted, ponderous thing of bone and sinew made from the parts of a who-knows-what, far stronger than the Empire's wood contraptions, usually firiing tragically misshapen bone-shafted arrows. Properly-shaped (and longer!) wood arrows would be a rare and deadly treat. Of course, this would really change the "feel" of bows to be more like something associated with sliths than nephilim... Mini-spears: The sliths are much taller than any of the races except the Vahnatai, so they've still got a reach advantage even if they don't have super-long polearms. Two to three feet plus a sturdy leather shield with barbs to catch the opponent's weapon should be enough to allow for a thrust-based fencing style not dissimilar to the kind taught by Fabris (and the tails would help them lean even further forward than a human can!) Darts: Say, weren't these in the Exile games? Sorta like a micro-javelin, but a bit easier to carry in large numbers. And easier to fit onto an atlatl. Advantage over bow and arrow? Portability, I suppose - and less reliance on heavy pulling. EDIT: But then again, considering how long these things actually are, they could still get pretty expensive... On a side note, I'd really like to see those neat single-edged falcata-like weapons pictured in places like the Avernum 1 splash pic ingame. EDIT: And yeah, poisoning weapons (and botching) was pretty fun in Exile, if not quite the most practical thing in the world... would hate to put acid on any weapon, though. [ Wednesday, June 28, 2006 02:29: Message edited by: Vaecrius ] Posts: 19 | Registered: Wednesday, June 28 2006 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Wednesday, June 28 2006 06:50
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This all sounds interesting, but... why would anyone care? I mean, weapons in Avernum at this point are just damage rolls — the kind of weapon only matters for skill purposes. Introducing many more kinds of weapons seems sort of silly unless they introduce new tactical complexity to the game, and I'm not sure how these weapons would do that. Welcome to Spiderweb, by the way! -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Wednesday, June 28 2006 07:15
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Well, as long as combat is being revamped in the series, I don't see why some of these wouldn't be half-plausible. Really, what I'd like to see more than any of that is to give some advantage back to human PCs. There's nothing to balance them against the clearly superior nephils and sliths. I mean, race-specific weapons/abilities, trait balancing, whatever it takes. -------------------- Thuryl: "Runescape: for people who are too stupid to save their games." Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 7261
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written Wednesday, June 28 2006 12:00
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Kelandon: Thanks for the welcome. As for why anyone would care... immersion, suspension of disbelief, another little extra bit that keeps the player engrossed in a surprisingly detailed world. Same reason why the world is filled with pickupable pieces of trash and household objects that you never actually use. Or quest-giving NPCs that reveal very human motivations in their dialog, rather than just "bring X to Y after killing Z" and you never deal with them again. As for mechanical effects... I never really gave it much thought when I wrote that list. ^^; I suppose the bola would be more valuable for slowing down a target rather than hurting them directly, and shields might be more common as more weapons are one-handed. Ephesos: I personally like the balance as it is now. Most of my characters (almost all of whom are human) have XP penalties ranging from 20-40 anyway thanks to the traits. It's a bit like the choice between "X class" and "Custom" - you can get a bonus you know has been tested to work, or pick something more basic that you can experiment with. Of course, it could just be that I don't really know how to use the non-human advantages correctly... [ Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:02: Message edited by: Vaecrius ] Posts: 19 | Registered: Wednesday, June 28 2006 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Wednesday, June 28 2006 13:45
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The problem is that sliths get a few nice benefits and nephils get absurdly useful benefits. Both outweigh the modest penalty, especially because the experience and leveling system reward experience penalties and disproportionately punishes disadvantages that should increase experience. —Alorael, who also wishes Avernum's primitive and frontier-like atmosphere had been played up, especially on the literal frontiers. Now it's too late, though. Normalized trade (presumably) with the Empire and relatively free flow of good and people means that nobody should be stuck with crude goods. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Wednesday, June 28 2006 13:55
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quote:I agree with this. An solution could be if different attacks use different amount of AP or have a varying percentage of multi-attacks. Things like knives would be useful if they allowed more speed and had a chance of doing double attacks based on dexterity. This would make it a valuable weapon for a thief like character. I agree about the need to rebalance races. One way would be to give Nephil and Sliths penalties rather than just an XP one. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 7213
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written Tuesday, July 4 2006 10:50
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I've noticed that trying to use ANY offense spells in A4 on a friendly or neutral NPC doesn't work and puts you in combat mode and even if you selected spell first then "attack" it will use whatever weapon is in hand and not the spell, killing the NPC and make anyone in sight hostile (if not the whole town). Also, you can't use any heal type spells on anything hostile. Such as heal or unshackle mind to try and revive a dazed hostile, or even heal a foe to make the battle last longer. What about the ability to use Mage/Priest spells on friendly/neutral characters without going in to combat/attack mode? Maybe even some more spells to do just that? It would be kind of cool to Daze or temporarily Blind a character if you want to do something in front of them without them going hostile and not resorting to cheat codes? Another thing possible would be able to use healing spells on sick, injured NPC's and actually have them recover? A4 allows you to "heal your party and near by friendly characters" but if you are in a slum or refugee camp text says they were healed but they really aren't. They don't leave and move on. Then you could run into them later and have an instant ally who "owed you one" or something. This does happen to a degree in A4 but is usually quest based. (freed prisoners, etc.) The poor guy Kasas in Fort Saffron is still sick after you complete the quest to heal/cure him with 3 Elixirs. He's still in the same place sick later in the game. (Man, eternal nausea and diarrhea. Bummer!) [ Tuesday, July 04, 2006 18:40: Message edited by: Micro Phage ] -------------------- Aide: (tugging at General's pant leg from ground..) "Sir! Please get down!" General: "What!?! They couldn't hit a Giant from that dist..." Posts: 181 | Registered: Monday, June 12 2006 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7252
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written Thursday, July 6 2006 02:37
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hmmm.. maybe a vahnatai race.. it would be cool.. if those freaks.. would reallllllyyyyy... help you out this tym.. nd a new character class.. dn please.. no necromancers.. they belong to.. diablo.. some people like.. Avernum for what is it.. bringing back the.. character editor.. nd having new spells.. i mean not just the.. mage nd priest spells.. nd bringing back.. simalcrum.. now that is a RIOT!!! PS:this is not a poem i lyk typing this way -------------------- Oh you're a cute Adze-Haakai you are.. Posts: 732 | Registered: Saturday, June 24 2006 07:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Thursday, July 6 2006 03:54
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Please write in complete sentences. Ellipses use three periods, by the way... Jeff has already said the Vahnatai will never be a playable race. Also, it is highly unlikely another playable race will be implemented in Avernum. In all seriousness, I doubt it would add that much anyway other than a new, neat option. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Thursday, July 6 2006 13:01
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Avernum doesn't have character classes, so a new one would be quite a trick. —Alorael, who doesn't want them, either, thank you very much. Geneforge is already more classy than he likes. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 7261
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written Thursday, July 6 2006 16:28
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quote:- I'm pretty sure he meant those pre-gen "classes" that you can use if you don't want to go full custom on everyone. That said, I don't think a necromancer would be all that playable anyway. I could imagine the whole summon/create undead thing leading to some Geneforge-like play, but it would seriously hurt the main game of building up your adventurers that the Avernum games are so much about. Other combat bonuses might apply too, but do you really want an adventurer who only really shines when fighting one specific kind of enemy? I suppose such a character could also talk to the dead, but that would lead to having to create a whole new set of dialogue and scripts that a player could easily miss every time (or force the player to pick up otherwise useless necromancy skills). But an entire game (or BoA adventure?) about necromancy... now that would make it worth it! Alorael: Don't mind me asking but it seems like you have a different name every other post... what's up with that? Posts: 19 | Registered: Wednesday, June 28 2006 07:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 5663
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written Thursday, July 6 2006 17:42
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The Avernum necromancers are always wimpy nerds living in caves out in the middle of nowhere, I think graverobber would be a better class. They'd be fast from running away from guards when caught, self-trained in stealthy skills to avoid being caught, and and skilled in pole weapons from all of the shovel handling. Also, it fits in with the other classes in that there is always some criminal background involved. Necromancers seem to be thought of as a bit too criminal for Avernum (you always get sent to kill them) and would probably be sent to the Abyss. [ Thursday, July 06, 2006 17:44: Message edited by: Mister Fox ] -------------------- I'm drunk as think as you not am I. Posts: 64 | Registered: Sunday, April 3 2005 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Thursday, July 6 2006 18:33
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I change my publically displayed name daily and have done so for two years. It started as a protest of the fact that I reached 10,000 posts without a custom title. Now it just matches my stylish signature. —Alorael, who is a walking, talking gimmick and likes it that way. Others disagree, as is their right. He can editorialize about it in his signature better than they can, though! Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 6670
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written Thursday, July 6 2006 18:59
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The Necromancer wouldn't work for role-playing purposes either. Think about it: would you, as a quest-giver (a.k.a. Bob), give a heroic quest to a creepy guy whose illegal and inherently evil compatriots continually drop pieces of their putrid remains on your waiting room carpet? I didn't think so. The only thing that would work worse than the Necromancer would be some sort of demon summoner. By Alorael: quote:Warning: Gimmick conflict. -------------------- IF I EVER BECOME AN EVIL OVERLORD: I will provide funding and research to develop tactical and strategic weapons covering a full range of needs so my choices are not limited to "hand to hand combat with swords" and "blow up the planet". Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 7261
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written Thursday, July 6 2006 21:34
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Mister Fox: Yeah, that's one of the odd things I've found about necromancers in Avernum. I would've thought it was something exile-worthy, as long as you weren't actually killing people for the bodies, unless the culture of the Empire had some issues about the dead... which is odd given you never have the option as adventurers to give the bodies you find (and loot) anything like a dignified burial. Alorael: I see. Dintiradan: I could imagine Bob doing such a thing if he were desperate or the adventurers had some other mitigating factor about them (e.g., if the Big Bad is a fellow necromancer, knowing the enemy better than anyon else available)... but I suspect that would play out much, much better on an Avernum tabletop game. (Speaking of which... has anyone tried such a thing?) One thing I'm reminded of that I'd really like to see in a future Avernum game: the dissolution of the eight-legged invertebrate. It would be awesome if you could have a formation and the PCs would sorta roughly stick to it, occasionally moving out of it when it makes sense (e.g., one PC stepping towards another to transfer an item between them). Might make certain states like confusion and encumbrance be relevant outside of combat as well... [ Thursday, July 06, 2006 21:56: Message edited by: Vaecrius ] Posts: 19 | Registered: Wednesday, June 28 2006 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7252
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written Thursday, July 6 2006 23:58
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*i sorry about typing that way.. hmm..i wish the "hi" and "hey" the spiders say when u talk to them was returned..you know, the one in exile two..mehn i almost drop down dead while playing it..then the friendly talking spiders came..it saved my lyf..LOL..i agree with the eternal diarhea thing..if u help someone who says can be helped to relieve his/her sickness..but after playing the game for the nTH hour..is still the same..would really be disappointing.. [ Friday, July 07, 2006 00:15: Message edited by: Valcrist ] -------------------- Oh you're a cute Adze-Haakai you are.. Posts: 732 | Registered: Saturday, June 24 2006 07:00 |