Avernum V
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Warrior
Member # 6912
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written Wednesday, March 15 2006 14:18
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i am a noob at the forums...what the hell are the GIFTS Posts: 89 | Registered: Wednesday, March 15 2006 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Wednesday, March 15 2006 14:30
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Giant Intelligent Friendly Talking Spiders -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Cartographer
Member # 995
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written Wednesday, March 15 2006 14:44
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Buttercup: what about the GIFTS? Westley: Giant, Intelligent, Friendly, Talking Spiders? I don't believe they exist. Spider: Oooo, humans! Cute! <pounces on Westley and adoringly strokes his hair with a pedipalp> Posts: 206 | Registered: Thursday, April 18 2002 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 6652
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written Wednesday, March 15 2006 14:45
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quote:The shades in A4 were interesting because they were NOT a "Hey, let's hack through several billion minor monsters in an underground cavern before we get to the spawner-type boss!" There is also the issue of motivation. A whole game based around the idea "An enemy is attacking because it's evil. Kill it." is a weak game, no matter how well the atmosphere or the fights are done. Demons in particular are prone to this. Give them a motivation, make them interesting, and don't throw millions of imps at us in every corner, and maybe. -------------------- But I don't want to ride the elevator. Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Wednesday, March 15 2006 15:17
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What I liked about the shades was that they conveyed the proper sense of awe and majesty. They had noticeable effects on the atmosphere (no one will talk to you when they're around) and they'd take you down if you attacked them too early in the game. They were kind of anti-climactic at the end, though, when they were so easy to kill. I wish that the final fight against each one had been more elaborate. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6912
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written Wednesday, March 15 2006 15:28
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ok so demons are admitebly a little 2 dimentional but what else is there to threaten the empire??? well...the vanahtai but i think we all agree that having them as main bad guys is getting old and about hack and slash when it comes to demons...i think the scenario was called The Curse of Being Famouse and i dont think that and the main demon (much like a shade) was involnurable till you do a seriouse of quests to get his charm In that scenario rebels actualy tried to control and use demons to fight the empire. I think that was a pretty cool idea that should be exploited in A5 exept it would work this time ---halfbreed idea: half man half demon...small resistance to all magic and edged weapons bonus (45% exp penalty) Posts: 89 | Registered: Wednesday, March 15 2006 08:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Wednesday, March 15 2006 15:42
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quote:It's Avernum we are worrying about, not the Empire. Jeff could come up with a lot of things, an undiscovered Slith kingdom, a powerful magical being, a natural occurrence such as a massive cave quake that disrupts order, etc. In other words, tons of things as long as you don't restrict yourself to the monster plague/evil bad guy out to take over the world mentality. I'd just like to see something else, like a game based on survival or escape. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Wednesday, March 15 2006 16:25
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The Darkside Loyalists seemed like a good story to go with, but they were kind of reduced to a minor mystery role when they could have been so much more. I've also always envisioned Commander Johnson going crazy upon reaching the surface and getting an army of Exiles to attack the Empire and you trying to stop him. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6912
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written Wednesday, March 15 2006 16:28
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hey what ever happend to buying a house i liked that in A3 it gave you neat mini quests why wasnt that in A4 but to expand the idea a bit i think you should be able 2 buy a business in A5 and do quests making ur business profitable...reward being money of course...this is a pretty rough idea does any one have anything 2 say about it Posts: 89 | Registered: Wednesday, March 15 2006 08:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Wednesday, March 15 2006 18:17
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Capitalization and punctuation are good, rantalot, it's very difficult to read your posts. The house and quest aspect is cool, but I'd rather see a well developed and original main storyline first before adding any frills. If I ask for anything, that's what I ask for first. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6912
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written Wednesday, March 15 2006 19:02
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There is no agreement on the main story line. Most of us are tired of the vanahtai villans and demons are boring. Most of us want to know more about vanahtai but the developer doesnt. Thus we might as well talk about the lesser aspects(like side quests) which are more...agreeable [ Wednesday, March 15, 2006 19:19: Message edited by: rantalot ] Posts: 89 | Registered: Wednesday, March 15 2006 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Wednesday, March 15 2006 20:57
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What I would like to see, but this would be 5 or more years away for the grahics to catch up, is the sliths have gotten fed up with Avernum and gone home. Going back to Avernum 1 and that lost city in the Giant Lands, the sliths have found a way through that doorway. The party would be all sliths with maybe that old Exile intelligence bonus scouting out the route from that city through an all new landscape. We could have elevations again, although I'm hoping they'll be back in Avernum 5. The game could end with an epic battle of sliths versus demons or some new hostile force. Make it ten times larger than the ziggurut one in Avernum 2. It will be something to watch for hours. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Wednesday, March 15 2006 21:04
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The ziggurut fight is plenty large. It's very exciting and I like it, but it takes so long to move that it is annoying. I don't have the patience to enojy something much larger. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Wednesday, March 15 2006 21:06
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Randomizer, meet Bahssikava. (Hint: play BoA.) -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 1115
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written Wednesday, March 15 2006 21:25
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Honestly, what I'd like to see is a world-building/tactical game based on the Avernum series. Play as the original founders of Avernum as they fight to clear the caves of dangerous creatures. Protect towns as they get built to your specs, attracting shopkeepers to equip and train your soldiers. Build up the Tower of the Magi to get protection from the magical beasts. Forge alliances with the friendly nephil and sliths. Ultimately take down Grah-Hoth and bottle him up for a bit. Sure, the plot is known and completely flat, but the gameplay could be interesting. And I chose that scenario because it seems to fit well, but there's no reason that Jeff couldn't create an entirely new scenario instead. Avernum decides to go expansionist into some new caves in the northwest tunnels, for example. -------------------- "Don't take life so serious, son. It ain't nohow permanent." -Porkypine Derakon's Library Posts: 287 | Registered: Thursday, May 9 2002 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6632
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written Thursday, March 16 2006 08:16
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The description of an early miniboss in A4 says that each Nephilim baby has a chance to become a Nephar, bigger stronger and sterile. Posts: 50 | Registered: Monday, January 2 2006 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 5517
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written Thursday, March 16 2006 09:09
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I have a couple ideas for new villains AND new species. Villains- A Avernite/Empire Arch-Mage(super sorcerer) trying to become a god by collect the spirit or essence of the most powerful NPC's in Avernum and the Empire. At the end, you can decide to release the collected spiritual energy(could be in a giant jar or a spire or something) or absorb it A giant revolt of monsters and bandits in Avernum, forcing the survivors to the surface. You have to gain the trust of a general or two to be able to go below-ground. You have to reinfoce the few Avernite-controlled cities and outposts, and retake some major positions, clearing the area for the Alliance army(Avernite, Empire, Vahnati, whoever else)The revolt leader turns out to be a demon of great power, and you have to kill him/her/it. Species/Charecters- A secret sub-race of magical-intuned humans is found. They get bonuses casting mage spells, get a bonus mana, and have like a 15-25% exp penalty A race of wolf-men. They look partly human and partly like wolves. They get more action points in combat, and get a point or two in quick action, and I think like a 25-30% exp penalty would be sufficent. Posts: 49 | Registered: Friday, February 18 2005 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6508
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written Thursday, March 16 2006 09:57
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mmmm.....maybe the mian bad guy in a5 should be that demon lord from A1(cant remember his name) and from the first expedition.....maybe it shold be the first lor of avernites. -------------------- Spiders,webs and software is great but Spiderwebsoftware is the best. Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, November 27 2005 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Thursday, March 16 2006 10:34
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No... Grah-Hoth was killed/banished in A1. So was Adze-Haaki. So it won't work. And Glafna, more races won't help anything. You've basically suggested werewolves and vahnatai minus the body shape. Neither sounds particularly good. EDIT: I believe this is post #1300. Yay. [ Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:39: Message edited by: Ephesos ] -------------------- Thuryl: "Runescape: for people who are too stupid to save their games." Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 6670
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written Thursday, March 16 2006 10:35
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The main problem with a drop-in villain, such as demons, undead, or now the Vahnatai, is that they are seldom developed. Vahnatai as villains had potential: they aren't pure evil, just their schewed honour system lead them to evil acts. Why should demons be treated different? I'm making a small BoA trilogy, and eventually the villains will be demons. And I'll (gasp!) actually be giving each individual demon a character, a purpose for attackng, and 'redeeming' qualities. I'm curious to find out whether they will be seen as more or less evil than before. EDIT: By Ephesos: quote:So says you... (Don't worry, Grah-Hoth won't appear in my scenario). -------------------- IF I EVER BECOME AN EVIL OVERLORD: I will not turn into a snake. It never helps. [ Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:36: Message edited by: Dintiradan ] Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 549
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written Thursday, March 16 2006 10:58
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Are people forgetting that three powerful dragons have sworn terrible vengeance against the Empire? And they're breeding, possibly with other dragons who are still living on the surface. The dragons don't even have to be the villains. The Empire could be trying to hunt them down before their children grow up and become a much bigger threat. That's worth at least a very big side quest. Vahnatai PC would be way too hard to balance. They'd have natural bonuses to dexterity, intelligence, endurance, magical abilities, and Vahnatai lore. That's like a 60% experience penalty even if they're given extreme weakness with prolonged exposure to sunlight. Oh and not all demons are evil, there are some that are more or less neutral. Plus Avernum once belonged to the demons, there obviously weren't that many people there for the demons to torment before the Empire started sending people down. [ Thursday, March 16, 2006 11:07: Message edited by: Vicheron ] Posts: 227 | Registered: Thursday, January 24 2002 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 5517
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written Thursday, March 16 2006 11:13
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wht about my villain ideas? Any comments or personal additions/subtractions? Edit: The idea for dragons as a sort of side-quest is a great idea, Vicheron. I have a little addition though. The dragons and thousands of weakers monsters have been incited to attack the Empire and some parts of Avernum. The 3 elder dragons could be bosses put in between the middle of the game and the end. [ Thursday, March 16, 2006 11:19: Message edited by: Glafna ] Posts: 49 | Registered: Friday, February 18 2005 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Thursday, March 16 2006 11:20
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The soul-collecting idea is... well, quite frankly, it sounds kind of weak. Going off of the idea that any "capture soul" spells thus far have required crystals, any villain capable of that would probably be vahnatai, particularly if they're able to easily overwhelm the most powerful NPCs in Avernum. The giant monster/bandit rebellion... it sounds like A4 again. Haven't we killed enough chitrachs yet? :P EDIT: quote:Gah!!! No!!! Anything but that! It just screams, "I've got hordes of progressively harder monsters for no apparent reason!" [ Thursday, March 16, 2006 11:21: Message edited by: Ephesos ] -------------------- Thuryl: "Runescape: for people who are too stupid to save their games." Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Thursday, March 16 2006 11:25
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I agree with Ephesos. You have to free yourself of the monster plague and evil/vindictive powerful being paradigms. A natural disaster, for example, can serve as much of a plot motivator as any bad guy. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Thursday, March 16 2006 11:44
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Grah-Hoth isn't so fully banished that he didn't try to return in A3. He's still out there, but he's also still more of a natural disaster than a detailed character. Now a different (and equally implausible) idea. With greater ties between Avernum and the Empire, greater administrative oversight of Avernum becomes possible and good. Avernum becomes nearly as repressive as the Empire. Some rebel takes up arms and tries to overthrow the Avernite government to return to Avernum's libertarian roots. You get to pick your side. It's like A Small Rebellion all over again, only underground! And then an earthquake collapses some caves, opens up some new ones, and disrupts Avernum, the Empire, and the rebels alike. You get to pick up the pieces. —Alorael, who would not in fact like his plot as stated. It is, however, a plot that should involve two detailed sides, real decisions, and that neat survival/exploration element. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |