Avernum V
Pages
| Author | Topic: Avernum V |
|---|---|
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 549
|
written Friday, March 17 2006 15:40
Profile
What is with this "demons are bad villains because they're inherently evil" thing? Need I remind you that the demons were in Avernum long before it was discovered by the Empire and that the Avernites were the aggressors who killed their lord and drove them from their homeland? Maybe demons are inherently more prone to evil than other species but their drive to murder wouldn’t be their only motivation in attacking Avernum, they want their freaking home back. Posts: 227 | Registered: Thursday, January 24 2002 08:00 |
|
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
|
written Friday, March 17 2006 15:51
Profile
Oi. I don't CARE if they have a good motivation or not. Rentar-Ihrno had a perfectly good and reasonable motivation, and people weren't fond of her comeback in A4. Motivation or not, demons trying to SMUSH AVERNUM is a really, really bad idea for a new game. (No offense, by the way :) ) -------------------- But I don't want to ride the elevator. Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00 |
|
The Establishment
Member # 6
|
written Friday, March 17 2006 16:11
Profile
quote:Again, we are back to the tired old paradigm of some group trying to take over/destroy something. True, they might have more motivation than sheer evil, but it would be revenge at best. Essentially, we have Rentar-Ihrno in a different form. Why was she not well received? Not because of her inherent lack of motivations, but that her motivations and actions are so classic, so mundane, so predictable. Yes, it followed logically, but too logically. A4 has no real surprise (other than the Darkside Loyalists) in it. By the end of the demo, we pretty much know who the bad guy is and exactly what is going to happen in the end. That's the main critique of the A4 plotline and the same critique the demon plotline as it stands would apply. Not saying that the demons cannot be used, they can, but should be done so in a novel way. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 549
|
written Friday, March 17 2006 18:07
Profile
If demons are to be A5’s main villains, it does not mean it has to be "demons smash, demons crush." I'm sure demons are very fond of excessive and unnecessary violence but they are also very intelligent, cunning, and adept at deception and coercion. They enslaved Sss-Thsss’s tribe. Both Grazahd and Rentar-Dumbo made deals with demons which undoubtedly ended up favoring the demons. The demons wouldn’t even have to attack directly at all. They could just fuel the hatred that already exists between the various factions, whisper dark thoughts into the ears of leaders, supply both sides during wars and collect the souls of the dead. Posts: 227 | Registered: Thursday, January 24 2002 08:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 247
|
written Friday, March 17 2006 18:43
Profile
Homepage
I like the idea of being sent or say teleported somewhere at the beginning of the game, and not being able to return to Avernum until the very end. Basically being trapped in a strange land. And Demons could still play some role, But no more than a small sidequest. [ Friday, March 17, 2006 18:44: Message edited by: VCH ] -------------------- The Knight Between Posts. Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 4574
|
written Friday, March 17 2006 18:46
Profile
I say that Avernum stops being so passive. All they ever do (A1 in exception) is wait for there enemies to attack. Thus my whole "Avernum attacks the demon world thing". This and I want to see what Jeff shows as the demon world. Now, about the Vahnatai, I would like to see there view on all this. I also like the Darkside Loyalists, plotwise. Make them allies with the demons or something. Hmmm. I've probably said to much. I've got this phrase running through my mind, "Join the Darkside Loyalists, we have cookies!" -------------------- Pass the sauerkraut and chips please. Posts: 1186 | Registered: Friday, June 18 2004 07:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
|
written Friday, March 17 2006 20:57
Profile
Homepage
I've got an idea... let's have A5 span all the continents, including Avernum, Upper Avernum, and Vahnatai Lands! And let's resurrect every major villain from the plots of games past, and have you fight them! Even Geneforge villains! And you'll be able to play as humans, slith, nephilim, vahnatai, dragons, undead, giant slimes, and Celts! And if you unlock the easter egg, you can play as the First Expedition, and even die like they did! And you'll be able to buy houses on every continent, and open businesses, and do courier runs between continents for huge amounts of cash that you'll never use! And there won't be boats! And plagues! Lots of plagues! Demons, cockroaches, and giant slimes! Heck, let's throw in dragons and vahnatai as well! How about some legendary weapons that you can resell and buy back for as many copies as you want! Let's lose the character editor, lose the plot, and throw in fifteen extra Xian items! And you know what, when you finish, you won't be able to continue! And even better, let's use another new engine!!!! Why not?!!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!?? (heavy breathing) Or, we could just leave it to Jeff, like we always have. I prefer that method. -------------------- Thuryl: "Runescape: for people who are too stupid to save their games." Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 4574
|
written Friday, March 17 2006 21:03
Profile
I like the first idea better. :D But seriously, chances are only the very intelligent things are going to have any chance of making it. So let's just leave it to Jaff and make this thread the "Wild Speculation" thread. -------------------- Pass the sauerkraut and chips please. Posts: 1186 | Registered: Friday, June 18 2004 07:00 |
|
Warrior
Member # 6508
|
written Friday, March 17 2006 21:30
Profile
i like the avernum triology engine better than the geneforge engine....so i would like A5 to have the avernum triology engine. -------------------- Spiders,webs and software is great but Spiderwebsoftware is the best. Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, November 27 2005 08:00 |
|
Guardian
Member # 6670
|
written Friday, March 17 2006 21:37
Profile
Homepage
Vicheron, your demon ideas are so similar to the BoA trilogy I'm tentatively planning that it's scary. (Puts on tin foil hat). Where is this "Wild Speculation" thread? I must find it and post my ideas on the upcoming Giant Intelligent Friendly Talking Fluffy Turtles... -------------------- Be mildly uncomfortable. Be VERY mildly uncomfortable. Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 1115
|
written Friday, March 17 2006 22:49
Profile
Homepage
It actually would be rather interesting to see the Avernum nation go on the offensive. The problem is that the only other two nations in the world are a) friendly, and b) much more powerful. Avernum's the Poland of the Spiderverse. [ Friday, March 17, 2006 22:50: Message edited by: Derakon ] -------------------- "Don't take life so serious, son. It ain't nohow permanent." -Porkypine Derakon's Library Posts: 287 | Registered: Thursday, May 9 2002 07:00 |
|
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
|
written Saturday, March 18 2006 02:01
Profile
They could decide to destroy the monsters once and for all. Okay, that's a bad idea. Avernum smashing things, while a good deal better than things smashing Avernum, invites way too much hack & slash to be a good premise. Maybe a series of side quests where there's an offensive agaisnt the sliths or something. -------------------- But I don't want to ride the elevator. Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00 |
|
The Establishment
Member # 6
|
written Saturday, March 18 2006 07:49
Profile
quote:Then who is the France of the Spiderverse? -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
|
Apprentice
Member # 6931
|
written Saturday, March 18 2006 20:52
Profile
I have a question... If Avernum created a precedent as an area of the Empire breaking away and becoming sovereign, why aren't there any other instances of sovereignty disputes? Now that Avernum has shown that the Empire can be beaten, there should be more groups, somewhere, demanding their own nation. And I definitely support a return to the Avernum Trilogy game engine. Posts: 1 | Registered: Saturday, March 18 2006 08:00 |
|
Councilor
Member # 6600
|
written Saturday, March 18 2006 20:55
Profile
Homepage
There are a few rebels in the prepackaged BoA scenarios, so it is something to think about. Dikiyoba. Edit: Typo. [ Saturday, March 18, 2006 20:55: Message edited by: Dikiyoba ] Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
|
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
|
written Saturday, March 18 2006 20:56
Profile
Homepage
quote:It's already been done somewhat in A Small Rebellion. Mind, having done something before doesn't seem to to discourage Jeff from doing it again... -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
|
Warrior
Member # 6912
|
written Saturday, March 18 2006 22:36
Profile
i dont think u can beat the empire if the fighting is on its own terf....not only did avernum have tactical advantage over the Empire it also had the Vanahtai...i dont think many rebels will be able to come up with that. I do however have a question for exile/avernum vets. If the empire can teleport soldiers why would it be an advantage for some one to be on an island??? That bothered me in the small rebellion. This is question more towards the development crew of A5 (jeff) So the whole A5 will be underground??? no hopes of seeing green grass or an empire dervish? Posts: 89 | Registered: Wednesday, March 15 2006 08:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 335
|
written Saturday, March 18 2006 23:30
Profile
Homepage
We know that the Empire can set up major portals. We also know they're a big deal, judging by the portal set up in A2. Given the necessary investment and the fact that they only set up one, I think teleporting soldiers onto an island is simply more difficult than sending more troops by boat. Avernum has the advantage of being a group of people already antagonized by the Empire. They're not a small rebel group on their own territory, they're everyone in the caves. They've also got more than their fair share of powerful banished wizards. Remember, the Hill Runners don't win (if you help them) because they have superior numbers. They win through terrorism and assassination. —Alorael, who suspects that the portal bottleneck is Avernum's main advantage. It makes the Empire's supply lines ugly, reinforcement relatively slow, and generally makes life difficult. An island can have a similar advantage, although probably not if the Empire decides to send a serious naval force out to break blockades and land troops. On any mainland the Empire can simply throw bodies at problems until they go away. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
|
Apprentice
Member # 6924
|
written Sunday, March 19 2006 10:23
Profile
Homepage
quote:I think you forgot the Slith empire as well. That's four empires in total (The Empire, Avernum, Vahnatai and Sliths. Posts: 30 | Registered: Friday, March 17 2006 08:00 |
|
Warrior
Member # 6508
|
written Sunday, March 19 2006 10:46
Profile
whell....the nephile had an giant empire ones. -------------------- Spiders,webs and software is great but Spiderwebsoftware is the best. Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, November 27 2005 08:00 |
|
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
|
written Sunday, March 19 2006 12:57
Profile
Homepage
The Empire and Avernum are two political entities. The sliths have many individual bands, but no one empire (unless one counts whatever may be going on in the slith homeland). The vahnatai also have many clans, one of which (Rentar-Ihrno's) is large enough to be significantly influential. The nephilim have many clans, also, one of which (the Ratbane clan) was once influential but is no more. I still count only two real major political powers. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
|
written Sunday, March 19 2006 18:50
Profile
Starting over in a new area will mean fewer preconceived ideas of what to expect. No more familiar terrain that has been revised to no longer fit the older games. I would like to go back to the A1 to 3 terrain style. Now that characters have more slots and virtually unlimited carrying capacity, we can have battle screens pop up in the wilderness. The problem in the older games was losing treasure due to too few slots and a maximum weight. This is especially true when there seems to be a limit to total treasure in the game. The only way to get more treasure is to kill off the townspeople and ones like Sleater. The game could be like the Khazi (?) Run where you start out in a safe area and after building up strength take off for the unknown. You fight safe places to rest and sell items, but you need to keep going in order to achieve an ending to the game. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
|
written Sunday, March 19 2006 21:09
Profile
Homepage
quote:First, Za-Khazi. Second, no. That kind of structure would simply echo many other RPGs which already exist. Just hack, slash, and stab to the next save point (Dungeon Siege leaps to mind... never did get the momentum to finish it). Spiderweb's games are unique in that they defy that structure. -------------------- Thuryl: "Runescape: for people who are too stupid to save their games." Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
|
Apprentice
Member # 6924
|
written Monday, March 20 2006 06:48
Profile
Homepage
quote:Exactly! That's definitely supposed to be a (big) nation. quote:Doh, you're right on this one, my bad. So that makes 3 big nations then, plus several smaller ones, e.g. Vahnatai clans, large Slith/Nephil/etc clans. Posts: 30 | Registered: Friday, March 17 2006 08:00 |
|
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
|
written Monday, March 20 2006 07:54
Profile
Homepage
Well, we don't actually know anything about what has happened in the slith homeland in the past couple of centuries up to A4. The sliths were banished at least one hundred and probably two hundred years before A1, which is many, many decades before A4 (although it varies, depending on who you talk to). Empire do fall, from time to time. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |