Regrettable But

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AuthorTopic: Regrettable But
Sir David
Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
 written Thursday, July 14 2005 19:51 Profile #25
Alec, that you think you can use the word "shameful" to describe anything but your own actions and words is mind-boggling. That you and TM are personally attacking Kelandon, of all people, for supporting a candidate other than yourself, is simply inexcusable. If the two of you would stop worshipping yourselves and acting like toddlers with sticks up their asses, maybe you'd be able to win your own election even without biasing it in your own favor. Kel is blameless, as you well know, so accept some responsibility for once, cut your losses, and resolve your own grudges before you make much more of a fool of yourself.

EDIT: Too late. Professional dignity? Blood feud? Cost him dearly? What the hell? Who do you think you are?

[ Thursday, July 14, 2005 20:00: Message edited by: Lady Davida ]

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And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it.
-The Last Pendragon

Polaris = joy.

In case of emergency, break glass.
Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Thursday, July 14 2005 19:55 Profile Homepage #26
The primaries are over; the finals have begun, and it's too late to change who's in them now. Please, let's put an end to this futile dispute before anyone's feelings are further wounded.

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My BoE Page
Bandwagons are fun!
Roots
Hunted!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Thursday, July 14 2005 19:56 Profile Homepage #27
quote:
Originally written by Custer:

quote:
Originally written by Ash Lael:

So complain about the rules and the guy who wrote them.
Forgive me for not foreseeing the abuse of the rules which would remove me from the running. I can assure you it was an oversight, as I would not wish the underhanded tactic used to remove me on anyone.
From where I'm standing, it was an application of the rules, not an abuse. You can't say "A candidate may shift votes given to him to other candidates" and then act indignant when someone does that to get the result they want. Well, you can, but it makes you look stupid.

I find it noteworthy that the two people who have been the most enthusiastic about defending your words are those who like you and hate Kel. I do not find it surprising, but I find it noteworthy.

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
M.
Too Sexy for my Title
Member # 5654
 written Thursday, July 14 2005 20:22 Profile #28
quote:
Originally written by Ash Lael:

quote:
Originally written by Custer:

quote:
Originally written by Ash Lael:

So complain about the rules and the guy who wrote them.
Forgive me for not foreseeing the abuse of the rules which would remove me from the running. I can assure you it was an oversight, as I would not wish the underhanded tactic used to remove me on anyone.
From where I'm standing, it was an application of the rules, not an abuse. You can't say "A candidate may shift votes given to him to other candidates" and then act indignant when someone does that to get the result they want. Well, you can, but it makes you look stupid.

I find it noteworthy that the two people who have been the most enthusiastic about defending your words are those who like you and hate Kel. I do not find it surprising, but I find it noteworthy.
I love Kel, yet I think we are taking this too far. I agree with thuryl, just forget about it (all of us) and move on.
Posts: 1035 | Registered: Friday, April 1 2005 08:00
The Immortal
BANNED
Member # 4
 written Thursday, July 14 2005 21:20 Profile Homepage #29
It's less the fact that Kel "broke the rules", and more the fact that he's being a dick in general. He (and also Zeviz) clearly has no intentions of making the community suck less, which makes his running superfluous- except for the damned feuding.

PS- Stug, get AIM. It's summer, so it's not like you have schoolwork tying your hands together or anything.

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人 た ち を 燃 え る た め に 俺 は か れ ら に 火 を 上 げ る か ら 死 ん だ
Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
For Nathan Ashby
BANNED
Member # 2385
 written Thursday, July 14 2005 21:38 Profile Homepage #30
quote:
Originally written by Frankie Vallium:

It's less the fact that Kel "broke the rules", and more the fact that he's being a dick in general. He (and also Zeviz) clearly has no intentions of making the community suck less, which makes his running superfluous- except for the damned feuding.
Well said.

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I am the apidimy of seven sausages.
The Abyss DEAD.
TEH EVOL STRAWBERY When fruit fights back.
End of World We're definitely going to blow ourselves up.
Posts: 489 | Registered: Friday, December 20 2002 08:00
Custer
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
 written Thursday, July 14 2005 22:43 Profile Homepage #31
quote:
Originally written by Lady Davida:

Alec, that you think you can use the word "shameful" to describe anything but your own actions and words is mind-boggling. That you and TM are personally attacking Kelandon, of all people, for supporting a candidate other than yourself, is simply inexcusable. If the two of you would stop worshipping yourselves and acting like toddlers with sticks up their asses, maybe you'd be able to win your own election even without biasing it in your own favor. Kel is blameless, as you well know, so accept some responsibility for once, cut your losses, and resolve your own grudges before you make much more of a fool of yourself.

EDIT: Too late. Professional dignity? Blood feud? Cost him dearly? What the hell? Who do you think you are?
You know, much like any good stopped clock, you're right every once in a while. Neither you nor anyone else views me with any level of respect, and I don't know whether that's saying more about me or more about the community. Regardless, there seems to be only one option afforded to me, and I am now electing to use it.

Consider this goodbye. I do not intend on returning, so if you'd mind not pissing on my ashes I'd appreciate it. Thank you kindly.

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The biggest, the baddest, and the fattest.
Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Jewels
Agent
Member # 3364
 written Thursday, July 14 2005 22:45 Profile Homepage #32
You can make the community suck less without being a mod. If Alec wants a shot at making the community suck less while a mod, then Alec should start by making the community suck less with his everyday posts.

The only blood-feud I see is the offense that Alec has taken by not recieving any of Kel's votes. Should the other three take like minded offense that TM gave Alec all of his? Or do you take similar offense that I gave you none in my own vote?

Edit: Of course you had to post just minutes before me. I only have one more thing to add, Alec.

For that which you claim to cling to, WWJD? I suggest for you to do likewise.

And for pity's sake, stop being so childish. You don't win the popularity contest(which may or may not even have a prise at the end) so you stomp your feet, cross your arms, and say 'Then I'm not playing anymore'. You are above that, I know you are.

[ Thursday, July 14, 2005 22:52: Message edited by: Jewels of the Forest ]

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"Even the worst Terror from Hell can be transformed to a testimony from Heaven!" - Rev. David Wood 6\23\05

"Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as you ever can." - John Wesley
Posts: 1001 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Thursday, July 14 2005 22:47 Profile Homepage #33
I was not aware that the community sucked, that mods had much power to change that, or that you of all people had problems with being a dick in general. And hey, maybe making sure Alec couldn't mod was his way of making the community suck less. :P

Edit: Okay, now taking bets on how long Alec will stay gone forever for this time. I say two months.

[ Thursday, July 14, 2005 22:51: Message edited by: Ash Lael ]

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Jumpin Salmon
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
 written Thursday, July 14 2005 22:52 Profile #34
quote:
Originally written by Custer:

Consider this goodbye. I do not intend on returning, so if you'd mind not pissing on my ashes I'd appreciate it. Thank you kindly.
I feel a great weakening in the force.

Oops my bad. That was just a yawn.

*this message sponsored by the theatrics department at desperate university*
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Thursday, July 14 2005 23:43 Profile Homepage #35
I was about to join in on this little feeding frenzy, but it occurred to me that there's something to be said for not kicking a man when he's down.

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My BoE Page
Bandwagons are fun!
Roots
Hunted!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Spring
Shaper
Member # 5450
 written Thursday, July 14 2005 23:51 Profile Homepage #36
Yes, 'don't.'

Its a shame that you have retired from the race. While I was not supporting you, its still a shame.

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I'll put a Spring in your step.

Polaris
Posts: 2396 | Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Thursday, July 14 2005 23:57 Profile Homepage #37
Spring, read the thread, eh? He hasn't retired from the election race, he lost that. He's supposedly retired from the community, so he supposedly won't even be reading your post.

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Kingy
Lifecrafter
Member # 3171
 written Friday, July 15 2005 00:13 Profile Homepage #38
Ah, it seems elections bring out the best in people.

[ Friday, July 15, 2005 00:19: Message edited by: Kingy ]
Posts: 776 | Registered: Friday, July 4 2003 07:00
Stugri-La
Guardian
Member # 3521
 written Friday, July 15 2005 04:38 Profile #39
quote:
Originally written by Frankie Vallium:

PS- Stug, get AIM. It's summer, so it's not like you have schoolwork tying your hands together or anything.
I've been taking a summer physics course while living at home, which is why I haven't really been online this summer. When I'm in Urbana I can get away with being on the boards and AIM nonstop, but at home my dad constantly pesters me for every hour not spent hitting the books. But I'll be done with the class on the 21st, so after that point I'll probably be online regularly for a while.

Alec, I don't know if this will help, but please, please don't leave. You're not unpopular here, and with the exception of a few spiteful types, I believe you are well-liked and respected. You managed third place in the primaries before vote reassignment, and certainly that's more than anyone who had truly lost all respect from the community would receive.

Don't let the words and actions of a few chaps with permanent grudges against you force you out of this community. We've already lost Djur and TGM; must we lose you too? This is a solemn plea, Alec, and I hope you'll take heed.

quote:
Originally written by Ash Lael:

I find it noteworthy that the two people who have been the most enthusiastic about defending your words are those who like you and hate Kel. I do not find it surprising, but I find it noteworthy.
I'm assuming that the "two people" you're referring to here are TM and myself. I'll concede that it certainly seems that TM dislikes Kel, but that doesn't apply to me. I don't dislike or hate Kel at all, and he knows this. I might at times take exception to his words and actions around here, but that certainly does not constitute hate. As far as the Blades politics that created this rift between Kel and TM in the first place, I have no opinion on any of it.

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Stughalf

"Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita.
Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00
Student of Trinity
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
 written Friday, July 15 2005 05:00 Profile #40
What the hell?

Custer, whom I don't even know to call Alec, is one of the most interesting people here. His departure is a rotten shame, and I can't see what can be a big enough deal to have prompted it.

This election has error bars bigger than the Malamute Saloon; people are taking it way too seriously. A lot of votes come from relative newbies like me, who can't do any better than vote for the people we know best, and that means the people who have posted a lot lately.

There just isn't much that can be done about that, so the process is not, and was never going to be, anything more than a hoke-fest. It's a lark. It will probably generate a good moderator, but it would have done so if any of about a dozen candidates had won. (Heck, I'm even naive enough to believe that TM would have made a good mod, given the chance -- he can obviously turn the outrageousness off and on at will.) Custer would be a great moderator, and this is obvious to all concerned, the election notwithstanding: the election not-with-having-anything-to-do-with.

If Alec can somehow hear this; from the mass of latecomers who couldn't possibly feud with him but would like to see more of his contributions: please. Take a breather, chill down, and come on back.

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It is not enough to discover how things seem to seem. We must discover how things really seem.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
ef
Guardian
Member # 2476
 written Friday, July 15 2005 05:34 Profile #41
The Blades politics, well - maybe Kel should consider that every designer who does not get acid remarks from TM together with some approbation best seek a deep, deep mouse hole and bury himself. Because if TM is complacent and polite, what he thinks about your oeuvre is beyond anything he wishes to burden you with.

Not everyone plays by your rules, Kel, and behaves in that orderly, balanced fashion you seem to prefer. Not everyone can. Passing judgement on what you don't understand is not always the wisest course.

Alec is special to me in many ways, as he reminds me so much of myself when I was young. I'll miss him.

I do not like the way this election is being held. If candidates shift votes to each other as they seem fit, the ordinary voter's voice is meaningless and his/her vote counts for nothing. We could as well not have voted at all and just let willing candidates decide between themselves.

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Polaris
Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00
Archmage Alex
Skip to My Lou
Member # 40
 written Friday, July 15 2005 06:14 Profile Homepage #42
These boards have much drama and side-taking. Why does a disagreement have to turn into "grudges" and "feuds"? I, for one, am mostly neutral in my feelings toward both Alec and Kelandon. However, no matter whether you love one of them or have a "grudge" against the other, the fact of the matter was that Alec was claiming "shameful behavior" when there was none. Kelandon simply passed out his votes. He did not say "Alec is stupid and I hate him so out of spite I'm giving my votes to Stughalf."

Even if this was his motivation there was no sinister plotting and he was entirely within his rights to act as he did. I do not see where Kelandon "passed judgement". If he likes things one way and so did not want a mod that was the other way, who is to blame him? Did everyone else not vote for the candidate they desired and not for the ones they did not?

Many of you are turning this into a grudge-fest when it was simply a matter of Alec grumbling in his anger and others defending Kelandon against an unfair attack. I have no lasting "grudge" against Alec. I do beleive that in this particular case he was in the wrong. This thread should have ended after the the 3rd post or a mod warned against attacking other members after the 5th.

I think too many members are too eager to beleive that every time some one disagrees with some one else or does something another member doesn't like that it was motivated by some sort of lasting "grudge".

[ Friday, July 15, 2005 06:20: Message edited by: Archmage Alex ]

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Take the Personality Test! INTJ 100% 75% 100% 44%
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Deep down, you wish you were a stick figure.
Posts: 1629 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Friday, July 15 2005 06:19 Profile #43
That's the ever-present danger of communicating over media like this or email.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Lt. Sullust
Shaper
Member # 32
 written Friday, July 15 2005 06:25 Profile #44
Don't worry about him, I can almost guarantee that he'll be back...

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Lt. Sullust
Cogito Ergo Sum
Polaris
Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
ef
Guardian
Member # 2476
 written Friday, July 15 2005 06:28 Profile #45
quote:
I do not see where Kelandon "passed judgement"
This does not refer to Alec, but to I don't know which thread, where Kel searches for and lists what he considers to be TM's verbal transgressions since he returned from banning.

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Polaris
Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00
Jumpin Salmon
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
 written Friday, July 15 2005 07:15 Profile #46
Not to defend Kel, but he posted within hours of TM on the same thread, and listed words from within one reply on that one thread. I personally wouldn't characterize that as a "search" or an attack. My immediate reaction was that Kel was amused, but as Drew points out, this media is lacking in emotional clues.

Like it was said above, possibly by Alex, my voting style in this election was based on how I saw people interacting on the boards recently. Looking over my primary ballot, I gave votes to each of the three finalists, plus several others.

I know that I have less than full knowledge of the interactions here, or who would best moderate the insanity, so the most I gave any candidate was 9 votes, with others getting 3 or 4. I voted in my trust that others knew more than I, and that is representational government as it exists in the US today.

*this message sponsored by democracy - the true test of personality*
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Rupert
Agent
Member # 618
 written Friday, July 15 2005 08:06 Profile Homepage #47
He has pride.

The principle of the election was probably not a good one. It was likely based on Alec's desire for power, of that form. However, upon considering the rules, the switching of votes, after, is not only extremely unorthodox and against the principle of the matter, but also backfired. Nonetheless, who are we to say that a victory for him would have been a bad thing?

I personally dislike stringent rules being placed. There has always got to be a margin for error and an amount of leiniency.

quote:
2. You've started and ended the registration at the time most convenient to you.
Zeviz, he gave one week in the registration thread. I fail to see how that was just convenience for him. It was quick, sure, but it was hardly objectable.

quote:
3. You've made sure that all of your supporters were registered, while some of your opponents missed registration because rules were hidden in a reply edited into a post on a thread that originally talked about general idea of elections.
Unless I've missed something, the rules of registration were extremely simple - i.e. post saying you were registering, in the time period.

I really have to query if you're complaining for no reason.

quote:
The election was very fair.
Nay.

quote:
I'm certainly glad I don't have to seek election as a moderator now, because I am not forced by professional dignity to recuse myself of the blood feud Kelandon had apparently elected to take up against me.

The man has an interesting and unfortunate taste in enemies which will cost him dearly. And that's all I'm saying out of respect for Stughalf's campaign.
Alec, no offence, but that's over the top, as far as flowery foppery goes.

quote:
Alec, that you think you can use the word "shameful" to describe anything but your own actions and words is mind-boggling.
It's called a personal opinion.

quote:
It's less the fact that Kel "broke the rules",
Unless the rules was "Alec wins", then according to the election rules, which I find great fault with, then he didn't break them.

quote:
He (and also Zeviz) clearly has no intentions of making the community suck less,
Yes, you've got a good point, there. Both of those campaigns were run as a joke and it is... disturbing that people seriously voted for them.

quote:
I was not aware that the community sucked,
It lacks former lustre. Not that mere mods could really change that.

It would appear that the outcome of this whole charade is... unforunate.

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Aut Tace Aut Loquere Meliora Silencio
Posts: 1487 | Registered: Sunday, February 10 2002 08:00
The Immortal
BANNED
Member # 4
 written Friday, July 15 2005 10:35 Profile Homepage #48
S6oto (2:28:16 PM): Somewhere in the vaults of SW there's a post from Kel declaring that the last thing he ever intended to do was to be a "gatekeeper."

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人 た ち を 燃 え る た め に 俺 は か れ ら に 火 を 上 げ る か ら 死 ん だ
Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Drakefyre
Triad Mage
Member # 7
 written Friday, July 15 2005 10:38 Profile Homepage #49
Ah, Bootsy, where have you gone?

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00

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