Regrettable But

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AuthorTopic: Regrettable But
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #125
quote:
Originally written by Zeviz:

PS: TM's statement that Kel and I don't care about the community is very insulting. Just because I think that you can have fun without spouting obsenities in every other post doesn't mean that I "don't want to make this a better place." For example, Drew's statemens are usually funny and often very sharp, without inapropriate language or personal attacks in every other post.
The problem is that you're rarely around and posting on the forums these days; likewise, Kel seldom reads or posts on General. I can see how it's hard for some people to believe that you're motivated purely by the desire to improve the standards of discussion in a community you're only occasionally part of. Sure, you're active in General at the moment, but when your first significant action on returning to the community after a long absence is to attack another member, it doesn't reflect well on you.

[ Monday, July 18, 2005 15:56: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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My BoE Page
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Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Guardian
Member # 3521
Profile #126
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

As far as I know, that amounts to three grudges: Zeviz against Alec, and Alec and TM against me (none of which, as far as I know, are mutual).

The rest of them are jokes or empty rhetoric.

Well, as you might guess I was pretty much just messing around with all the quotes. Seriously, I'm well aware that this place isn't truly replete with grudges. It's just that, at times, I like to imagine as if it is. Not, mind you, because I enjoy flame wars and general disharmony. I don't. But there are times when I have a fancy for a bit more spicyness around here, and contrived blood feuds are an interesting way to spice things up. :P

quote:
Originally written by Jumpin' Salmon:

So, I would like to propose that a more knowledgable person than I create a poll whereby members could indicate their primary allegience (SW, Pol, Desp) or some other similar device.
Not too great of an idea, I have to say. The Desperance and Polaris populations are quite amicable nowadays, but this wasn't always the case. No point in threatening the harmony with a thread that would likely awaken some long-forgotten tensions.

And Thuryl is spot-on.

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Stughalf

"Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita.
Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #127
quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

likewise, Kel seldom reads or posts on General.
This statement is about half-true. I definitely read most threads.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #128
quote:
Not too great of an idea, I have to say. The Desperance and Polaris populations are quite amicable nowadays, but this wasn't always the case. No point in threatening the harmony with a thread that would likely awaken some long-forgotten tensions.

I have to admit that my plea for a poll was tongue in check. It would do this community no good, and possibly some harm, to have such a poll exist. That is why I didn't newb one together. I have the basic jist of the schism, and that is all I need. And stuff like that is fluid anyhow, and a poll or a pamphlet would just confuse matters.

It is far more fun and appropriate to get thrown in the deep end of spiderweb and have to figure it out individually.

*this message sponsored by the number 1400 and extends congrats to zeviz*
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Agent
Member # 3364
Profile Homepage #129
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

likewise, Kel seldom reads or posts on General.
This statement is about half-true. I definitely read most threads.

*Looks at Kel's member # and post count*

*Looks at own member # and post count*

So if Kel posts seldom then what do you consider as a lot?

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"Even the worst Terror from Hell can be transformed to a testimony from Heaven!" - Rev. David Wood 6\23\05

"Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as you ever can." - John Wesley
Posts: 1001 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #130
This has got to be the weirdest series of posts I've ever encountered on SW - and that's saying something! You all had me going there for a minute that you meant it.

I get it now! It's high comedy! A kabuki critique of the recent presidential election in Iran.

BTW, I'm dying to know, why do TM and Kel engage in Spiderweb Celebrity Death Matches?

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Shaper
Member # 32
Profile #131
There have been several 'death matches' in this communities history. None of them have ended well...

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Lt. Sullust
Cogito Ergo Sum
Polaris
Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4214
Profile #132
quote:
Originally written by Jewels of the Forest:

So if Kel posts seldom then what do you consider as a lot?
quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

likewise, Kel seldom reads or posts on General.

Posts: 356 | Registered: Tuesday, April 6 2004 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #133
My favorite spidweb deathmatch was between Dorth Hanoy and kattana.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
desperance.net - We're Everywhere
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You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
Profile Homepage #134
quote:
Originally written by Stugri-La:

Alex- I was merely attempting to call Ash a bit on his motives. He had mentioned that the only reason he was posting at all was to defend Kelandon from the accusations being made. I pride myself on possessing a rather discerning mind, and I'm quite familiar with Ash and his style around here. Perhaps I was a bit too dismissive of his desire to defend Kel; after all, he seems to be defending his honesty so forcefully that he might have been at least somewhat truthful in his statements.

However, as even you agree, he would hardly be as vehement or as tireless in his "defense" if Alec and TM weren't involved. He seems unwilling to admit even that.

Ash- Admit that the above is accurate, and I'll lay off challenging your honesty. If you insist on denying it, though, don't expect me to take anything you say at face value any time soon.

And so I am presented with a most interesting choice, whether to be honest or seem honest. I'm afraid I have to choose the former and stand by my original statement. If that causes you to think less of me, that's unfortunate.

By the way, thanks to Alex and everyone else who's stepped in to defend me.

Also thanks to Zeviz who made a very good point in saying that it's all somewhat irrelevant. What was the point again? I was saying TM and Alec's attacks on Kel were unjustified as he did not break or even bend the rules in his actions. I may have been hallucinating, but I think I saw Stug saying that it had nothing to do with the rules - so what makes Alec's actions supposedly defensible, again?

EDIT: In case I don't get the chance to respond to him fully, FBM is a lacker.

[ Tuesday, July 19, 2005 15:37: Message edited by: Ash Lael ]

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Agent
Member # 3364
Profile Homepage #135
quote:
Originally written by Ignominious:

quote:
Originally written by Jewels of the Forest:

So if Kel posts seldom then what do you consider as a lot?
quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

likewise, Kel seldom reads or posts on General.

Which I cannot fathom as being true since I see his posts all the time (on general), unless Thuryl's deffinition of seldom is a lot more then my own deffinition of the term. I just want him/them to explain their deffinition.

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"Even the worst Terror from Hell can be transformed to a testimony from Heaven!" - Rev. David Wood 6\23\05

"Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as you ever can." - John Wesley
Posts: 1001 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00
Shaper
Member # 32
Profile #136
Well compared to Thuryl's 400+ posts a month the rest of us do post seldomly...

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Lt. Sullust
Cogito Ergo Sum
Polaris
Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Shaper
Member # 5437
Profile #137
quote:
Originally written by Jewels of the Forest:

Which I cannot fathom as being true since I see his posts all the time (on general), unless Thuryl's deffinition of seldom is a lot more then my own deffinition of the term. I just want him/them to explain their deffinition.
He's active in General now, but his posts were less frequent until recently.

[ Tuesday, July 19, 2005 19:02: Message edited by: Dolphin. ]

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Nena
Posts: 2032 | Registered: Wednesday, January 26 2005 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #138
Quite a few more threads on General concern me directly (as in, mention my name) than have in the recent past.

I think mostly they're getting this from the fact that I have said that I don't spend that much time in General, which is true compared to how much I used to until a few months ago.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Guardian
Member # 3521
Profile #139
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

I think mostly they're getting this from the fact that I have said that I don't spend that much time in General, which is true compared to how much I used to until a few months ago.
In the period preceding the elections, you seemed to avoid General like the plague while posting like wildfire in several of the game boards. I recall one of your stray posts on General which began with something along the lines of, "Ugh, General."

As such, I was rather surprised at the outset of the elections to find that you possessed the gall to run for modship at the one forum on these boards that you appeared to openly dislike. I would have brought the matter up, but as I was avoiding negative campaigning on principle, I refrained.

Ash, you're damnedly obstinate. That you are so unwilling to admit the obvious baffles me. I won't press the issue, though.

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Stughalf

"Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita.
Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00
Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
Profile #140
"Ugh, General." is a completely understandable statement that does not necessarily imply dislike of a forum, just reasonable digust. Even dislike is no reason to not want modship, though; if anything, such feelings prove Kel's campaign valid. What better position to obtain in order to improve a forum than mod (or admin)? Liking and caring for a forum can easily be two completely different things.

Regardless, Kel probably didn't entirely mean that anyway. There is such a thing as humorous exaggeration. I say "Ugh. People" all the time, but that doesn't mean that I don't want contact with them (or that I don't want any kind of power over them).

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And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it.
-The Last Pendragon

Polaris = joy.

In case of emergency, break glass.
Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
Profile Homepage #141
quote:
Originally written by Stugri-La:

Ash, you're damnedly obstinate. That you are so unwilling to admit the obvious baffles me. I won't press the issue, though.
Here, let me explain it. The reason that I'm not willing to admit the "obvious" is because the "obvious" is in fact not true. Instead of baffling yourself over why I would flat-out lie about something so minor, how 'bout believing me?

I get into a lot of arguments with Alec/TM, sure. But that's not because I'm always on the lookout for opportunities. They just often say things that I object to.

I got into this topic because Alec and TM were saying things I objected to. It was the latter part of that sentence that motivated me, not the former.

If you need evidence that the identity of my opponent (for lack of a better word) is immaterial to me, look no further than this very thread. Both Alec and TM are no longer involved in this topic, nor have they been for some time. Yet I'm still here. Funny, that.

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Guardian
Member # 3521
Profile #142
quote:
Originally written by Stugri-La:

However, as even you agree, he would hardly be as vehement or as tireless in his "defense" if Alec and TM weren't involved. He seems unwilling to admit even that.

Ash- Admit that the above is accurate, and I'll lay off challenging your honesty. If you insist on denying it, though, don't expect me to take anything you say at face value any time soon.

You seem to be misunderstanding me at present. I've already conceded that "defending" Kel was one of your motivations. All I wish is that you admit that the intensity and vehemence of your statements had something to do with the fact that you were arguing with Alec and TM. It appears to me to be undeniable.

You might still be here, but I've noticed that you've toned down your rhetoric considerably. Could that have something to do with the fact that you're arguing with me now, and not Alec or TM? Hmm.

[ Tuesday, July 19, 2005 20:23: Message edited by: Stugri-La ]

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Stughalf

"Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita.
Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
Profile Homepage #143
No, I am not misunderstanding you. I am telling you that you are wrong. My intensity and vehemence are not dependent on the identity of the other person. If I'm less intense and vehement now (I thought I was being calm and reasonable the entire time), it's because the things you post are less inflammatory that the things they post.

EDIT: Reread my posts. Aside from a possible blip caused by FBM's idiocy, I still think I've been calm and reasonable the whole time. Maybe you've been confusing me with David or something?

[ Tuesday, July 19, 2005 20:37: Message edited by: Ash Lael ]

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Guardian
Member # 3521
Profile #144
Ack, whatever. I'm not going through all six pages, so I suppose I'll just concede the point altogether. Far too trivial to be worth arguing about, at any rate.

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Stughalf

"Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita.
Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00
Guardian
Member # 2476
Profile #145
What baffles and also worries me is how easily so many of you accept the rules that made Kel's manoeuver possible. FBM is an exception, but the rest of you seem content to state that Alec proposed them and therefore shouldn't complain, if they backfired on him. He probably thought of a redistribution of votes among the chosen finalists, as anything else wouldn't be in tune with what he politically stands for. He's not the guy who tries to nullify the voters' decision. Which is what Kel did, taking advantage of that wide open door to abuse that Alec naively offered him.

Such a door should never have been offered, and that's what I'm still waiting to hear from you, Ash, David, Zeviz, Sullust, et al.

If it is that easy to manipulate you out of your democratic voting rights, may God protect us all.

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Polaris
Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
Profile Homepage #146
1. Alec himself was planning to "strategically shift votes to push friendlier candidates into runoffs". I can not find exact quote at the moment, but I'll look for it if you don't believe me. (It was said in response to Drakey's anouncement that elections would be held by secret ballot. Alec complained that it would prevent the possibility of shifting votes.

2. The elections were set up as a proxy system. In the first round voters chose the proxy who would allocate the votes. In the second round, the proxies allocated the votes. The proxy's duty is to allocate his votes in a way that would guarantee election of a moderator whose views would be closest to views of their constituents. This is exactly what Kel did.

Once it became apparent that Kel could not win, it was his duty to the people who voted for him to allocate his votes to the three possible finalists that would be most acceptable to the people who voted for him.

PS The final result is the same it would have been if voters were allowed to shift votes themselves.

And if they weren't there would simply be more alliances beforehand. For example, I wouldn't have run, which would mean that my 45 votes would have gone to Kel, making him #3 candidate after initial voting. (I know that 33 of my votes would have gone to Kel and I am guessing the other 12 would have done the same.)

[ Tuesday, July 19, 2005 21:51: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #147
So I did wrong because Alec didn't understand the rules that he himself wrote?

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Guardian
Member # 2476
Profile #148
quote:
So I did wrong because Alec didn't understand the rules that he himself wrote?
Pease don't complicate things further. I was not familiar with the term 'proxy system' and did not clearly understand it. Thank you, Zeviz, for explaining.

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Polaris
Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #149
As I understand it, this procedure is used in official democratic elections in several countries.

And Stughal - Ash, Alec, and TM do not hate each other except when their scenarios are criticized. I definitely believe him when he says that he jumped in because Kel was being lambasted unfairly.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
desperance.net - We're Everywhere
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00

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