Regrettable But
Pages
| Author | Topic: Regrettable But |
|---|---|
|
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
|
written Saturday, July 16 2005 16:41
Profile
Homepage
quote:TM is responsible for his own actions, not me. What I'm trying to do is defend a member who has been falsely and unfairly attacked. Nothing more, nothing less. -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
|
BANNED
Member # 4
|
written Saturday, July 16 2005 16:41
Profile
Homepage
quote:Yep. -------------------- 人 た ち を 燃 え る た め に 俺 は か れ ら に 火 を 上 げ る か ら 死 ん だ Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
|
Triad Mage
Member # 7
|
written Saturday, July 16 2005 18:05
Profile
Homepage
Discussion is good, and why this topic will not be locked. We must all share our feelings. That said, obscenities should be cut out (TM, FBM). -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy desperance.net - We're Everywhere ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 32
|
written Saturday, July 16 2005 19:26
Profile
Oh I'm sure this board would just fall apart without you and Alec, TM... -------------------- Lt. Sullust Cogito Ergo Sum Polaris Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 3364
|
written Saturday, July 16 2005 19:58
Profile
Homepage
Aww, come on. Don't tempt him. He might just test that theory... and then I'd be sad. Though I'm still trying to discern the difference between Kel becoming a candidate and TM becoming a candidate. Neither one had any expectation/desire/hope to win. So they both stuck their noses in where they didn't belong. Except that TM probably always intended on giving his votes to Alec... and maybe Kel always intended to give them to someone else. My guess is that we're missing some crutial pre-election dialogue between the three of them where Alec's intentions to better the community were fleshed out. I could see why Alec and TM would be so angry if Kel had participated in pre-election dialogue elsewhere with them. *feels tempted to check at Desp* [ Sunday, July 17, 2005 04:52: Message edited by: Jewels of the Forest ] -------------------- "Even the worst Terror from Hell can be transformed to a testimony from Heaven!" - Rev. David Wood 6\23\05 "Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as you ever can." - John Wesley Posts: 1001 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 5437
|
written Saturday, July 16 2005 20:06
Profile
quote:Every time an oldbie leaves so does a piece of what makes this such a good community. New people add new perspectives to the community, but it just wouldn't be the same without the oldbies. I hope Alec does return when things settle down, and I'm glad TM came back. [ Saturday, July 16, 2005 20:06: Message edited by: Dolphin. ] -------------------- Nena Posts: 2032 | Registered: Wednesday, January 26 2005 08:00 |
|
Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
|
written Saturday, July 16 2005 20:28
Profile
quote:That's not always a good thing. quote:Oh, come on, take a look at the forum's mods and admins. I wouldn't call Drakey "mediocre", and Alorael's got enough uniqueness to make up for ten TM's and an Alec or two. And look at our relatively new members - Dolphin, for instance, and Stughalf. That's the advantage of endless newbies - every once in a while you'll get one who makes up for the loss of certain veterans. The loss of "brilliant, interesting members" in the past hasn't done any more than allowed new personalities to come forward, and I'm talking about the ones who actually contributed to the community. I, for one, who rather a dictatorship of mediocrity than one of what you call "brilliance". Thanks to the existing dictatorship, though, we don't have to fear either. quote:What restraint? Since when has TM needed provocation? ef, calling Ash on that and defending TM is like punishing a kid for picking his nose while patting an active pyromanic on the head. This is exactly why TM and co. get away with things like the clitoris quote while Ash is demonized for defending the innocent and speaking the truth - enough of us are eager to blame the victim and glorify the perpetrator that simple human decency and justice get obscured. quote:Poor widdle TM, I'm sure he's been crying himself to sleep every night since this began. Get real, Stughalf: at this point, their "attacks" are purely for self-defense (and the just defense of Kelandon) and are nothing compared to TM's barefaced defiance of the CoC and vulgar, undeserved flaming. Open your eyes and see what is painfully obvious: Alec is acting as would have been expected fifteen years ago and TM, who is clearly in the wrong, is being flamboyantly hypocritical while making himself and Alec out to be martyrs. That so many of you have fallen for such a blatant ploy should be astounding, but unfortunately, it's not. -------------------- And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it. -The Last Pendragon Polaris = joy. In case of emergency, break glass. Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00 |
|
Guardian
Member # 3521
|
written Saturday, July 16 2005 20:34
Profile
quote:I'm quite aware that no explicit attacks have been made. As I am occasionally wont, I threw out a colorful phrase largely for the hell of it. I will assert, though, that your claim regarding your motives in this discussion is entirely untrue. I doubt that you care at all that Kel has been "unfairly attacked." You're posting here solely for the purpose of getting a few licks in at Alec and TM, and to claim otherwise is disingenuous. You're still missing the point about all of this, by the way. Kel's actions may not be objectionable based on the rules, but his intentions are quite another matter. In case you weren't aware, Ash, Kel was at one point an active Desp. member, and seemed rather chummy with all of us, including Alec. As far as I know, there was no mutual falling-out between the two. As such, Kel's actions in the election came entirely out of the blue. I believe that Alec has responded this way because he feels personally betrayed. This has very little, really, to do with the elections at all, so there's no need to continue quoting the rules and what-not. David- TM has just been banned again, probably for the use of the naughty words earlier in the thread. As of late he hasn't been allowed to "get away" with much of anything around here. As for the "defense of Kelandon" bit- as I mentioned earlier in this post, I just don't buy it. -------------------- Stughalf "Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita. Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00 |
|
...b10010b...
Member # 869
|
written Saturday, July 16 2005 20:42
Profile
Homepage
quote:I wouldn't exactly say he got away with it; you'll notice he's banned again. -------------------- My BoE Page Bandwagons are fun! Roots Hunted! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
|
Guardian
Member # 3521
|
written Saturday, July 16 2005 20:46
Profile
As I mentioned above, old chap. EDIT: Removed smiley, as this is no laughing matter. [ Saturday, July 16, 2005 20:47: Message edited by: Stugri-La ] -------------------- Stughalf "Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita. Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 5450
|
written Saturday, July 16 2005 20:48
Profile
Homepage
I noticed that in another thread, but thought it was just UBB being UBB. -------------------- I'll put a Spring in your step. Polaris Posts: 2396 | Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00 |
|
Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
|
written Saturday, July 16 2005 21:22
Profile
Good call, Stuggie and Thuryl, I didn't notice that before I posted. What I said is still moderately true - TM's recent words haven't exactly been uncharacteristic. You are correct, though, Stughalf - lately his words have elicited something less than the desired response. I can't honestly say I'm displeased. I don't know about Ash's and Sullust's motivation for defending Kel, Stuggie, and I can only answer for myself. You were half right - I'm posting here for the purpose of getting a few licks in, but certainly not solely for that purpose. I've had respect for Kel for as long as I can remember, but putting that aside, I found Alec's and TM's posts in the beginning of this topic passing immature and spiteful, and the identities of the attackers and the victim had no effect whatsoever on my decision to respond. I'll openly admit that the intensity of my reaction was feuled by these identities, but they served as the icing on the cake, so to speak, or more accurately, the straw that broke the camel's back. I certainly do care that Kel has been unfairly attacked and made the scapegoat for Alec's failure; as Ash and others have noted, it is absolutely ridiculous to pin Alec's defeat on Kelandon's fair and jusitified action. If Alec feels betrayed because Kelandon believes that Aran, Thuryl, and Stughalf would make better mods than he would, that's not Kel's fault, nor is it his problem; Alec must learn that not all worship him as he does himself and that some things, especially mod elections, transcend "chummy" feelings. Kel apparently made his decision based on whom he thought would be most suitable for modship rather than a friendly past. If that's shameful, then let us all swallow our pride and heap shame upon our heads. -------------------- And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it. -The Last Pendragon Polaris = joy. In case of emergency, break glass. Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00 |
|
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
|
written Saturday, July 16 2005 21:24
Profile
Homepage
quote:I am not a liar, and I do not appeciate being called one. -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
|
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
|
written Saturday, July 16 2005 22:46
Profile
Huh. Quite a bit happens whenever I leave for a few hours. I commend you Stug for standing by your convictions and defending your friend. I hope if you are elected mod that you will just as willingly defend your enemy. Disappointing to see TM has had himself banned again. *this message sponsored by my dog, panting and looking at me as I type* Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 3364
|
written Sunday, July 17 2005 05:06
Profile
Homepage
quote:... ... :( *sighs and sends TM some love* -------------------- "Even the worst Terror from Hell can be transformed to a testimony from Heaven!" - Rev. David Wood 6\23\05 "Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as you ever can." - John Wesley Posts: 1001 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00 |
|
Guardian
Member # 3521
|
written Sunday, July 17 2005 06:54
Profile
quote:Thank you for your commendation, Salmon. The thing is, I feel that on SW (and in life, really) I have only friends and friendly acquaintances. I'm not the sort of man to readily assign others as "enemies" and treat them permanently as such. I might be sparring heatedly with Ash in this thread, but I'm not taking his opposition as a personal dislike or developing a grudge against him for it. I still respect him deeply and enjoy his presence on the boards, and I'd certainly defend him if I felt he was being unfairly treated around here. Ash- Take offense if you wish, but that comment was not meant as an attack upon your character. I feel that you have been somewhat dishonest in this case alone. Aren't we all, at times? David- I appreciate your honesty in admitting your motivations. Yes, I believe that you respect Kel and all, and that you'd defend him no matter who was doing the attacking, but you're quite right that the intensity of your response has had a lot to do with the fact that Alec and TM were the ones doing the "attacking." You seem to believe, though, that Kel split up his votes the way he did despite his friendship with Alec, out of an altruistic desire to improve the boards. I've not made up my mind on this point myself, but Alec seems justifiably convinced that Kel acted in this way out of a heretofore concealed personal enmity against him. Here is my calculated assessment of Kel's motives: Obviously, he has hated TM for quite some time, and the hate is quite mutual and largely the result of Blades politics. So, once he noticed how strongly TM was throwing his support behind Alec's campaign, Kel saw his chance to get back at TM through Alec. By splitting up his votes the way he did, Kel stymied TM's attempts to help Alec and prevented Alec from making it into the second round. However, who suffered the most from Kel's coup? Not TM, but Alec, who has (as far as I know) never even taken sides in the Blades politics or done Kel wrong in any way. If this assessment is accurate, Kel certainly acted in a personally immoral manner, and Alec certainly has a right to be upset. -------------------- Stughalf "Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita. Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 5437
|
written Sunday, July 17 2005 08:01
Profile
How long will TM be Banned this time? :( [ Sunday, July 17, 2005 08:02: Message edited by: Dolphin. ] -------------------- Nena Posts: 2032 | Registered: Wednesday, January 26 2005 08:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 73
|
written Sunday, July 17 2005 08:04
Profile
Thuryl said on Desp he was told it will be three months. -------------------- The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) Famous Last Words - A local pop-punk band They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
|
Guardian
Member # 3521
|
written Sunday, July 17 2005 08:11
Profile
Not to challenge the administration or anything, but TM was banned largely because of his use of the naughty word earlier in this thread, right? At first he was just warned for using obscenities, and then banned outright, with no obvious transgressions following the warning. I'm curious as to why the banning would come so long after the commission of the offense. -------------------- Stughalf "Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita. Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 5437
|
written Sunday, July 17 2005 08:20
Profile
The lack of patience from the admins was likely due to the first and very recent banning, and why are anatomical terms considered obscenities? Well, I guess when you are calling people such things, but still. Edit: slightly rephrased. [ Sunday, July 17, 2005 08:23: Message edited by: Dolphin. ] -------------------- Nena Posts: 2032 | Registered: Wednesday, January 26 2005 08:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 1993
|
written Sunday, July 17 2005 09:35
Profile
quote:He didn't ban himself, but yes, it is disappointing. A successful further step to make these boards to a sterilized, humour-free place. Do you feel better now, Drakey? BTW, you should absolutely change the titel of your CoC. Why not call it "Persisted Elaboration of Neat, Inflated Supremacy"? Ok., you can ban me now for violating your P.E.N.I.S. :( -------------------- ^ö^ vegetarians are sexy. Posts: 1420 | Registered: Wednesday, October 2 2002 07:00 |
|
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
|
written Sunday, July 17 2005 10:03
Profile
Since when does gratuitous obscenity equal humor? It's not like TM was telling dirty jokes, even. At least to my recent observation, his CoC violations are practically all in the course of insulting people. -------------------- It is not enough to discover how things seem to seem. We must discover how things really seem. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
|
By Committee
Member # 4233
|
written Sunday, July 17 2005 10:10
Profile
Cool out, Spy. Drakey is just doing his job, and the consequences have been well spelled out since forever. Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 335
|
written Sunday, July 17 2005 10:19
Profile
Homepage
quote:If TM were a newbie and posted as he did, everyone would be clamoring for a ban. There is only so much obnoxiousness that can be tolerated, and the first ban didn't drive the point home. Being an oldbie doesn't give you a free license to flout the rules, insult anyone newer, and generally act in a way that is socially unacceptable even without the Code of Conduct. I honestly don't understand the complaints. I can understand liking TM. He's not some horrible monster, and there's a reason he has been a respected member of the community for years. I can't see how anyone could support his reason spate of petty vitriol. Kelandon is not required to like TM or Alec. In fact, in an election, it is perfectly reasonable to try to prevent the election of someone you believe would be unfit for the position. If Kel has personal enmity, he at least probably believes there is a good reason for it. If he likes them both but still sees them as unsuited to the role of moderator, he would reasonably do the same thing. I don't thinki Kel is petty enough to shoot down Alec just to get back at TM. —Alorael, who likes tradition but not to the point of enshrining the bad with the good. Yes, it's sad when an oldbie leaves. No, it does not do irreparable harm to the community. A little bit more civility, at least, can go a long way. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 618
|
written Sunday, July 17 2005 14:01
Profile
Homepage
quote:I do pay attention, but if you fail to clarify your words, then it is entirely your own fault. quote:Kel had the potential to be a good moderator, but was not taking it seriously, in any way, shape or form. I am not questioning his choice to support another candidate, however, the people who voted for him, did not vote for Alec, Stug, Thur, Aran or anyone else but Kel, himself. It was his democratic right to vote in the election, but by no means should votes towards himself have counted to any other candidate. That is defeating the point of democracy. By not taking the matter seriously and using other people's votes, without their consent, he interfered in the process of democracy. I don't know about you, but that's not only noncing something up, but it's also making a farce of it. quote:And I have to declare that discrimination against the "registration dately challenged". :P quote:Get off your self-righteous horse. If Kel wanted to defend himself against words that have just been obviously so harsh beyond words, that he needs several people, including yourself, to defend him from, he might've asked. Or even considered the matter worthy enough, to defend himself, perchance? quote:My apologies, Drakey. I must remind myself that this is a place where those sorts of references are not just uncommon, but taboo. quote:We are all entitled to our own opinions. If he wishes to defend someone else, who seemingly considers the matter so important, that he seems to be ignoring it, then why such surprise, when other people tell him their honest opinions? quote:Once again, if he seemingly doesn't consider that he needs to defend himself, does he really need so much defending from everyone else? quote:Well said. Or perhaps a name that reflects the election, in what most candidates claim, but we never really see, ourselves? Such as, Cliched Liberation from the Institutional Tyrannys. But alas, it never took a rocket scientist to work out that and that the mods would be angered if I violated their Cliched Liberation from the Institutional Tyrannys. Especially Schro. Indeed, Alo, but while obscenities are violating the CoC, it hardly covers free speech and I don't see where it shoots you for speaking your mind. [ Sunday, July 17, 2005 14:05: Message edited by: Lamentable Loss ] -------------------- Aut Tace Aut Loquere Meliora Silencio Posts: 1487 | Registered: Sunday, February 10 2002 08:00 |
