Regrettable But
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Sunday, July 17 2005 14:43
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You can speak your mind without insulting people in an obscene way. TM was banned for 10 days because he wouldn't heed persistent warnings. He was then notified that if he was not on his best behavior, then he would be banned again. He obviously did not learn from his first ban. And probably won't learn from this one, either. But we can't give him special leeway because he's an oldbie. He was duly warned, and then continued to spout vitriol. As for why the ban occurred long after the offense - mods and admins can't patrol the forums 24/7. It was only a few hours later - the ban was applied just after I posted in this thread. The warning was not specifically directed at TM, but at all posters in the thread. I like TM. But even though I like him, it does not give him a right to be obscene, obnoxious, and insulting. There are young children who play spidweb games and are here at the forums for that reason, and we want to keep this a clean environment. If you want to spout obscenities, desperance is that way ->. It's not necessary to curse or use obscenities/vulgarities to make a point. It's just immature. The obvious hope is that TM learns from this ban, but he will always be treading on eggshells here. EDIT: And Alec yelled at Kelandon for making Lord Putidus :P [ Sunday, July 17, 2005 14:48: Message edited by: Drakefyre ] -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy desperance.net - We're Everywhere ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Sunday, July 17 2005 14:53
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quote:First of all, it was not Drakey who applied the ban, it was me. TM has been warned repeatedly about his behavior and his conduct was totally unacceptable; the action taken was acceptable and agreed upon by the other admins. Now, spy.there, please play nice and refrain from obscene accusations. They are not helping your status as a member here. Thanks for your cooperation. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power!! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 3521
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written Sunday, July 17 2005 14:57
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Apologies to Kel for making this disclosure, but he has just contacted me in an effort to clarify his actions in the matter. His statements appear sincere, and I'm willing to accept his explanation that his decision was based solely upon a judgement call regarding Alec's suitability for the moderator position. I've got nothing more to say on that subject. With regard to TM's banning, I suppose that the administration is under quite a bit of pressure to keep this forum "safe" and welcoming towards new, often young, members. This is a company message board, after all. If the side effect of this regulation is the neutering of these boards, so be it. It's likely that SW will at some point cease to be interesting in the least due to the removal or departure of its most colorful personalities. At that point, I will most probably leave like those before me. After all, there's always Desp., and we answer to no uptight company employees over there. -------------------- Stughalf "Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita. Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 1993
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written Sunday, July 17 2005 15:04
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I just wonder why everybody takes TM's rants so seriously. Reading "flaccid, prolongued you-know-what" gave me a laugh, but I never could take it as insult, too absurd. Geeze, I have been "harassed" and "belittled" several times on these boards (not by TM) and was rather amused. It's boyish nonsense, nothing to make much ado. What else do you expect from people having left their sanity behind the door? I only think a flaccid genital is not worth the loss of one of our best scenario authors. edit: I apologize, Drakey, I thought you are the only mod with ban skills. ^_^ But you must agree that "CoC" could easily be mistaken as obscenity if spoken? [ Sunday, July 17, 2005 15:30: Message edited by: spy.there ] -------------------- ^ö^ vegetarians are sexy. Posts: 1420 | Registered: Wednesday, October 2 2002 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 3521
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written Sunday, July 17 2005 15:11
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Well, he can still design scenarios for the community. He just won't be able to announce them on these forums. He's not banned at the Lyceum, at least. -------------------- Stughalf "Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita. Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 73
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written Sunday, July 17 2005 15:36
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spy.there, if you like obscene humor, you may like Desperance (linked to in my sig). Just FYI. -------------------- The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) Famous Last Words - A local pop-punk band They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Sunday, July 17 2005 15:56
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I agree with the sentiments above. There are plenty of appropriate outlets to express such feelings. The company message board, which has to remain inclusive and appropriate for a general audience including young minors, is not the proper place for this. As I see it, TM was on "last warning" status after his previous ban was removed. If the rules are not enforced on him, then the administration gets accusations of uneven application of the rules. If we do, then we get the current argument. Either way, there is no one perfect path. For the record, none of the admins are actually Spiderweb employees. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power!! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Sunday, July 17 2005 16:24
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I waited this long to post because I wanted to let things settle down some before I added potential fuel to the fire. *sigh* I didn't realize it would get this out of hand. For anyone who's still wondering, the message that I sent to Stug basically explained my reasons for distributing the votes the way I did. I had to choose three from among Aran, Thuryl, Stug, and Alec, and I chose to support Aran, Thuryl, and Stug. My reasoning pretty much boiled down to four things (in order of importance): 1) Aran, Thuryl, and Stughalf all seemed quite capable of being mods, 2) I didn't think Alec would make a good mod here on Spiderweb, 3) I didn't think that the administration would approve of him as a mod anyway (remember this is all subject to Drakey's approval), and 4) He hadn't been very nice to me in the campaign. No back-room conspiracies, just a simple recognition that when Dolphin gave her votes to Stug, my candidacy was no longer viable and I had to choose to back those whose were. This isn't a popularity contest; it's an election for mod of General, and I wanted to support the candidates that were the best for the job. Yes, Aran and FBM, this action was undemocratic, but the rules were undemocratic to begin with, and Alec wrote the rules. I can't fathom what he expected to happen with the vote-shifting rule except what did happen — if it was not written for the express purpose of allowing someone to do the sort of thing that I did, then why was it there? And for that matter, I didn't decide this election. I just acted last, so my action was most conspicuous. TM and Dolphin also played a significant role in determining the outcome, as did the voters: I gave very few votes to Aran or Thuryl. The #1, #2, and #4 candidates from the primaries made the run-offs, and Stughalf only trailed Alec by 4 votes, putting them in a virtual tie. The voters did this as much as me — I just acted as a tie-breaker. I'd think that if my voters trust me enough to be a mod, they'd trust me enough to judge who else could be a mod. And my candidacy was not just a joke or an attempt to mess things up. I could moderate General. I explained what I'd do: try to keep the environment friendly and open. There was the whole Manhood Typing Party business, but that arose during the time when Zeviz was touting his EVOL party, and it wasn't even my idea; it was just what I ended up being called. I was a serious candidate, and while I may not have gone as crazy about it as others, I think I was credible. But alas, it was not to be. Alec's modship was not to be, either, but I don't understand why he felt that his only option was to leave. I still lurk on Desperance, but I haven't posted in a while, and I don't think I will for a while yet, out of respect for his space. TM's banning was also unfortunate, but I think it was coming anyway. I'm sorry to have been a catalyst for both of these issues coming to a head, but I think that they were going to turn out this way regardless, if not here, then somewhere else soon. Anyway, sorry for all the controversy, and I hope that clears up my end of things. I'll probably stay out of the rest of the election proceedings and probably won't post on this thread again. [ Sunday, July 17, 2005 17:21: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Skip to My Lou
Member # 40
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written Sunday, July 17 2005 16:29
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quote:I'm sorry Stug, but this seems a bit hypocritical. From your actions I do believe your statement about yourself to be rather true. However, the point I would like to make in this thread is that with purely text communication especially it plain guesswork at best to assume another's motive for anything. Admittedly, it is plain no great love is lost between Ash and TM & Alec, but to assume that his attempt to defend Kel was no more than pretense is beleiving you know the workings of his mind. While I am certain the fact that it was TM and Alec added vigour to his defence of Kel, I have seen Ash's posts for considerably longer than you have been in the community and beleive he would have at least agreed with such a defence regardless of attacker. Also, I personally am disgusted by how some members continually defend their childishness by saying "I'm not wrong, you just disagree because you hate me." Yes, personal feelings have an impact on how you treat others, but few people are so consistently shallow that is their only reason for what they say or even the main reason. [ Sunday, July 17, 2005 17:00: Message edited by: Archmage Alex ] -------------------- Take the Personality Test! INTJ 100% 75% 100% 44% Huzzah for the Masterminds! www.Keirsey.com for personality information. The Sloganizer! "Swing your Archmage Alex." Deep down, you wish you were a stick figure. Posts: 1629 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 5437
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written Sunday, July 17 2005 17:12
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I had decided not to involve myself in this matter, as it was an issue between a select few that extended beyond the election itself; since my name has been mentioned I'll address the aspects of the situation that involve me. I gave my votes to Stugie because I wanted him in the final three, and though I was aware that would make it possible for Alec to be moved down to fourth it had no relevance in how I voted. I wanted then and now for Thuryl to win, but I wanted Aran, Stugie, and Thuryl to be in the final round. I feel them to be most qualified to be moderator. I like Alec and wish this situation could have been solved in a way that he would feel comfortable enough to stay (and I hope he comes back), but I would like to see others as mod. Kel, I think you would have done fine as mod, and I hope I have not offended you with how I made my decision. I voted the way I did because I honestly thought those would be the three to move forward anyways. I agree that TM and I both had enough votes to tip the balance, and TM isn't being criticized about his choice of candidates because he voted for Alec, and I'm not being criticized because…well, I don't know why everyone would question Kel's vote placement but not mine. I assume from what everyone has said it was a personal issue between Alec and Kel rather than a matter of votes. [ Sunday, July 17, 2005 21:13: Message edited by: Dolphin. ] -------------------- Nena Posts: 2032 | Registered: Wednesday, January 26 2005 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Sunday, July 17 2005 17:19
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quote:Don't worry — I'm not offended at all by your choice. I very nearly gave my votes to Imban 4444, so I can hardly fault anyone for whomever they chose to give their votes to. :P -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Sunday, July 17 2005 20:55
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quote:The first sentence does not go with the second. Honesty is a big thing for me. -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Monday, July 18 2005 03:21
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TM will continue to make scenarios, and he will be active at the Lyceum and on AIM. Since when did being interesting have to be so dependent on being vulgar? spy.there - just because you were not offended does not mean that others were not. And surely you can acknowledge that it was completely inappropriate and uncalled for. As administrator, I have (and *i has) a certain responsibility to the rules and to Spiderweb Software. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy desperance.net - We're Everywhere ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 3521
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written Monday, July 18 2005 04:24
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quote:I'm aware. But you certainly do answer to them regarding the climate of these boards, although they don't bother to personally supervise the goings-on around here. If these boards went all to hell and someone complained directly to Vogel or Linda, you and Drakey would shoulder the blame for not maintaining the appropriate environment here. Alex- I was merely attempting to call Ash a bit on his motives. He had mentioned that the only reason he was posting at all was to defend Kelandon from the accusations being made. I pride myself on possessing a rather discerning mind, and I'm quite familiar with Ash and his style around here. Perhaps I was a bit too dismissive of his desire to defend Kel; after all, he seems to be defending his honesty so forcefully that he might have been at least somewhat truthful in his statements. However, as even you agree, he would hardly be as vehement or as tireless in his "defense" if Alec and TM weren't involved. He seems unwilling to admit even that. Ash- Admit that the above is accurate, and I'll lay off challenging your honesty. If you insist on denying it, though, don't expect me to take anything you say at face value any time soon. -------------------- Stughalf "Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita. Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Monday, July 18 2005 04:32
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I don't think you know as much about 'Blades politics' as you think you do :P [ Monday, July 18, 2005 04:32: Message edited by: Drakefyre ] -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy desperance.net - We're Everywhere ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 3521
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written Monday, July 18 2005 05:09
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When did I ever mention that I'm knowledgeable regarding Blades politics, Drakey? I generally don't concern myself with them, which is, of course, why I know so little. -------------------- Stughalf "Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita. Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Monday, July 18 2005 07:59
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This 'Blades politics' reminds me of the line by Henry Kissinger: "University politics are so vicious precisely because the stakes are so small." -------------------- It is not enough to discover how things seem to seem. We must discover how things really seem. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Monday, July 18 2005 09:39
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quote:If Alec or TM weren't involved, it seems unlikely that the language would have gotten so harsh and aggressive. I think Ash was responding more to that than to the identities of the people involved. Stug, there are a lot fewer grudges in this community than you seem inclined to believe. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 3521
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written Monday, July 18 2005 10:05
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quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote:Well, perhaps you're right, but with all of this flying about, can you really blame me? -------------------- Stughalf "Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita. Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Monday, July 18 2005 10:14
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As far as I know, that amounts to three grudges: Zeviz against Alec, and Alec and TM against me (none of which, as far as I know, are mutual). The rest of them are jokes or empty rhetoric. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Monday, July 18 2005 10:26
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Why don't we all just retreat to more comfortable ground and pick on the spammers? *this message funded by your keyboards - at this point almost worn out...* Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2476
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written Monday, July 18 2005 11:06
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quote:After having fulfilled your patriotic duty and wiped out the insurgency, it's back to business as usual, folks. Nevertheless, be always aware of subversive elements - especially Harry Potter. -------------------- Polaris Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Monday, July 18 2005 11:55
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As I have the nature to want to jump into the middle of a "discussion" in which I have no knowledge of either the subject matter or the individuals, it has been difficult to contribute in a constructive manner without creating spam. As Drakey has issued a competitive posting challenge, I feel it is in my best interests to induce discussions in which I can participate. Especially as posting innanities will reduce focus on the topic, I like to see something which is easy to understand. So, I would like to propose that a more knowledgable person than I create a poll whereby members could indicate their primary allegience (SW, Pol, Desp) or some other similar device. *this message sponsored by the german parliment - featuring minority rule for almost 60 years* Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
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written Monday, July 18 2005 11:56
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I apologize that I am getting back into this argument, but my name keeps coming up. Many of these so called "grudges" are simply some people's attempts to discredit any argument of their opponents. I can't speak for Kel, Creator, etc. but for me, Alec is the only person against whom I supposedly have a grudge. Kel also doesn't strike me as somebody who holds a lot of grudges. The "that mean guy just has a grudge against me" is a very convenient distraction, because instead of the original argument it shifts the focus on "that mean guy" and his personality. I also don't like using departure, or a threat of departure as a strategy in an argument. This once again sweeps aside all the valid arguments and raises a wave of sympathy for "that poor guy, who is being unfairly attacked". If a person leaves once and never comes back, I can believe that he quit in disgust. However, if a person leaves in disgust every time things don't go his way, it does not look very good. (This is the second time I've seen Alec quit and I've heard that's not all of them.) By the way, if Alec's quitting wasn't just a publicity stunt, why is he trying so hard to influence outcome of the elections after his supposed departure? PS: TM's statement that Kel and I don't care about the community is very insulting. Just because I think that you can have fun without spouting obsenities in every other post doesn't mean that I "don't want to make this a better place." For example, Drew's statemens are usually funny and often very sharp, without inapropriate language or personal attacks in every other post. I do want to make this a better place. And the fact that my idea of a better place is different from yours, doesn't make me an evil and uncaring person. [ Monday, July 18, 2005 12:03: Message edited by: Zeviz ] -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Monday, July 18 2005 14:04
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If you feel left out in all the grudges, I would be happy to hate you specifically, personally, relentlessly, ceaselessly, and baselessly. Anyone? —Alorael, who will even work on coming up with trenchant one-liners to crush your will to live if you throw in a few dollars for his time. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
