Regrettable But
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Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
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written Friday, July 15 2005 11:05
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quote:Yes, it's exactly this sort of thing that gives elections a bad name. Hence the reason why I ignored them to begin with! I knew that sooner or later, for one reason or another, it would deteriorate into this sort of thing. -------------------- The A.E. van Vogt Information Site My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Friday, July 15 2005 17:55
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quote:Fair point, and said very reasonably. However, I was referring to Alec himself and not you. While you did defend Alec, you did not attack Kel unfairly, as Alec and TM did, which is what I was objecting to. True, you did say that you saw nothing wrong with Alec's statements, which would imply that you agreed with his assessment of Kel's actions as "shameful", but it's not explicit so I ignored it. The simple facts of the matter are: 1) Alec made the rules. 2) Alec lost under those same rules. 3) Alec blamed and insulted Kel unfairly. 4) A bunch of people stepped in to defend Kel. 5) Alec got huffy and announced his departure. It's got nothing to do with feuds or bad blood. -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 3521
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written Friday, July 15 2005 20:39
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quote:In truth, I have no strong personal opinion on Kel's actions in this case. His vote distribution was certainly curious, but not necessarily indicative of malevolence towards Alec or anyone else. Without more explicit evidence to suggest malicious intent on Kel's part, I feel that it would be rather precipitous on my part to pass judgement on his motives. However, I did mean all of what I said in my previous statement. Alec came in third in the original primary voting, and was ousted from contention by only a few other candidates seemingly sharing an agenda. It's only natural that he would feel that an injustice has been done, and voice his feelings here. The man has formed a legitimate opinion based on the actions of another, as is his right. The most important point that you and some of the others are missing here, Ash, is that Alec began this thread only to announce the withdrawal of his candidacy. Not once has he called for any actions to be taken as a result of the injustice he has perceived. I agree that he would have been out of line in proposing a repeat election or something of the kind, but he has made no such propositions. Alec is guilty only of openly expressing his legitimate suspicions. As such, I find the enthusiastic abuse heaped upon his head by yourself and others to be thoroughly uncalled for and transparently mean-spirited. I suggest that we leave this issue be and allow Alec to leave here, if he so wishes, with the dignity he deserves. -------------------- Stughalf "Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita. Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Friday, July 15 2005 20:57
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quote:See, all we've done is exactly what you say Alec has done. From where I'm standing, Kel did nothing wrong, so Alec calling his actions shameful is uncalled for and transparently mean-spirited. Not once have we called for Alec to be banned or anything like that. We were just expressing our legitimate suspicions. [ Friday, July 15, 2005 20:59: Message edited by: Ash Lael ] -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Saturday, July 16 2005 03:34
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Maybe this is pouring oil without knowing whether it's onto troubled waters or a bonfire, but I can see this both ways. As far as I can see, Alec laid out some very reasonable-looking rules, that showed a lot of thought about making a fair and worthwhile election. But there was no beta test, and the actual event exposed an unexpected consequence of the rules. Namely, as I see it: that letting candidates act as bloc proxies -- allowing them to withdraw and redirect all the votes they had received to any remaining candidate of their choice -- gives popular but losing candidates too much power. So to me what Kelandon did seems like a bug exploit. I can't fault him for doing it; I'd have done it, too, and been proud of my ingenuity. But Alec must have been very chagrined, after all his investment in the election. If I were in his place, I would be upset not at the way things turned out, but at the fact that the letter of my rules had been used to violate the spirit I had intended to underly them -- and that I had assumed everyone else shared. The best remedy I can see is for Alec's detractors and Kelandon's defenders to try to see this from Alec's point of view, and feel his pain a bit; and for Alec to cool down enough to see that a 'friendly game' spirit -- and a specific interpretation of what that means -- is a lot harder to convey than the letter of the law. Some folks play a mighty sharp game of Diplomacy (or better, Machiavelli) and stay friends. This kind of confusion of context is bound to happen from time to time, and although it can be extremely frustrating, it shouldn't really be held against anyone that they didn't catch your vision of the spirit of the game. -------------------- It is not enough to discover how things seem to seem. We must discover how things really seem. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Saturday, July 16 2005 05:30
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Alec sure wasn't complaining when TM transferred all 77 of his votes Alec's way. Alec's beef with Kel's vote appears to be that he sees it specifically as a vote against himself rather than for the other candidates. [ Saturday, July 16, 2005 05:32: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- My BoE Page Bandwagons are fun! Roots Hunted! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Saturday, July 16 2005 09:49
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Creator, this election concerns you almost as little as it does Kel. Why you bother typing so voiciferously confuses me. To wit: - Kel doesn't give a rat's ass about any sense of community - Alec does - Kel unilaterally set Alec up the bomb regardless I'm saying that Kel is a dick on account of his placing his flaccid, elongated clitoris where he knew it had no place. Meanwhile! Can we not try and feign some respect for the unusually terse Mr. Kyras here? Or, failing that, a topic-locking... -------------------- 人 た ち を 燃 え る た め に 俺 は か れ ら に 火 を 上 げ る か ら 死 ん だ Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 32
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written Saturday, July 16 2005 10:38
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If I had really thought Alec as moderator would benefit the community at all I would have given him a portion of my 24 votes. Unfortunately for him I don't. If you're going to blame Kelandon you might as well blame everyone else who didn't vote completely for Alec. Get over it... -------------------- Lt. Sullust Cogito Ergo Sum Polaris Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 618
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written Saturday, July 16 2005 10:38
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quote:M'dear, are you actually inferring that there is a problem with being transparent? If he was "mean-spirited" and grumbled, privately, to everyone, would that have been more acceptable to you? He may well have had questionable motives, but he hardly denied such. He seemingly has not lied. Is there a problem with being honest, if the truth isn't smelling of roses? Sweaty left testicles to you, sirrah. TM has a good point, painful as it is, for me to admit such. Kel ran a campaign on a joke principle. He seemingly had little intention to take it seriously, by the time that voting came about, so we can hardly say that he had the community's best interests at heart. While it was his democratic right to run, that doesn't mean that it's right to nonce up a serious matter, with a joke for a principle. -------------------- Aut Tace Aut Loquere Meliora Silencio Posts: 1487 | Registered: Sunday, February 10 2002 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 618
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written Saturday, July 16 2005 10:39
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quote:M'dear, are you actually inferring that there is a problem with being transparent? If he was "mean-spirited" and grumbled, privately, to everyone, would that have been more acceptable to you? He may well have had questionable motives, but he hardly denied such. He seemingly has not lied. Is there a problem with being honest, if the truth isn't smelling of roses? Sweaty left testicles to you, sirrah. TM has a good point, painful as it is, for me to admit such. Kel ran a campaign on a joke principle. He seemingly had little intention to take it seriously, by the time that voting came about, so we can hardly say that he had the community's best interests at heart. While it was his democratic right to run, that doesn't mean that it's right to nonce up a serious matter, with a joke for a principle. -------------------- Aut Tace Aut Loquere Meliora Silencio Posts: 1487 | Registered: Sunday, February 10 2002 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Saturday, July 16 2005 10:39
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If you are claiming that the three remaining candidates have no sense of community, then you may have a point. You obviously feel that Alec has more sense of community than them, but that is not how Kel saw it. Hidden agendas are very attractive in novels and other works of fiction, but they do NOT lend a sense of community. Should 95% of the members here have to know about or care about these machinations? I certainly don't except on the level that I find them highly amusing. Does that mean I lack a sense of community? Nope, otherwise I wouldn't bother to respond to the occasional broadside. No one of us speaks for the community, and the closest I've seen so far was in the election. I personally disapprove of the style brought to these boards by Alec (and occasionally you) so my voting bloc did not extend to candidates that may have supported you. My votes went to the people still in the race. Yours didn't. Sorry that you have been disappointed, but that is an inherent risk, and the community did speak at the ballot. Edit - I must type slowly, as this was meant to slip in behind TM's post, and doesn't refer to Lt's or LL's posts. *this message sponsored by the 1% of registered members that think moderatoring is key to the community* [ Saturday, July 16, 2005 10:44: Message edited by: Jumpin' Salmon ] Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 32
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written Saturday, July 16 2005 10:44
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Alec wasn't going to win either way, so I don't see why we are having this issue anymore... -------------------- Lt. Sullust Cogito Ergo Sum Polaris Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Skip to My Lou
Member # 40
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written Saturday, July 16 2005 11:34
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As I said, this topic should have ended after the 3rd post. Alec said "shameful", Kelandon said "I followed the rules" and it should have ended. TM's open attack on Kelandon is a large part of why this has continued. I would like to remind the mods that open insults (a violation of the CoC) are being thrown about and it would seem a good idea for there to be a general warning and this topic to be locked. -------------------- Take the Personality Test! INTJ 100% 75% 100% 44% Huzzah for the Masterminds! www.Keirsey.com for personality information. The Sloganizer! "Swing your Archmage Alex." Deep down, you wish you were a stick figure. Posts: 1629 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 73
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written Saturday, July 16 2005 12:42
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I told Alorael, but he said it didn't need to be locked. Hopefully he'll change his mind now. -------------------- The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) Famous Last Words - A local pop-punk band They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 3521
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written Saturday, July 16 2005 14:25
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quote:That respect does not seem to be forthcoming, and as such it seems that a lock is the only sensible course of action. Ash, Sully and co. are seemingly filled with the fury of a thousand bereaved mothers and will not cease in their attacks otherwise. -------------------- Stughalf "Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita. Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Saturday, July 16 2005 14:39
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Just a friendly note: keep our tempers down. I really don't want to close down any election topics. Thanks for your cooperation. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power!! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 1993
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written Saturday, July 16 2005 15:51
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Mr. Kyras indeed didn't post anymore. His retreat saddens me badly. I'm glad that TM didn't stay away after his ban. TGM did. Djur disappeared also - and now Alec. It frightens me that the community started to dislodge some of its most brilliant, interesting members. To what will it lead? Dictatorship of mediocrity? :) seeing Alec's actual picture in his profile lets at least hope for further opposition. -------------------- ^ö^ vegetarians are sexy. Posts: 1420 | Registered: Wednesday, October 2 2002 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 73
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written Saturday, July 16 2005 16:12
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A lot more than those you listed have disappeared, and lots of members leaving isn't a recent development. In no particular order, there's Akhronath, Wombat, iambobsushi (all three of whom are still available on AIM, but are no longer active in the community), TurtleWhipper (whose AIM ID appears on my buddy list with the Mobile Device icon next to it all the time, but is never otherwise on AIM), The Minstrel, vgmaster, Mr. Meanor, Dorth Hanoy, Lightning Exiled, Lorekeeper, Tie-My-Shoe, Aceron (who shows up occasionally to remind us that he thinks we're going to hell), Scorpius, Rosycat, RoR (who was most likely scared away by me), Feranix, and High Clerist (who I don't know but showed up once or twice and everyone got excited, so he must have been pretty popular) and those are just the ones that I can think of off the top of my head. Also, Alec's profile is currently displaying a picture of Kelandon, not himself. [ Saturday, July 16, 2005 16:14: Message edited by: The Almighty Doer of Stuff ] -------------------- The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) Famous Last Words - A local pop-punk band They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Saturday, July 16 2005 16:12
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A few things to respond to, so forgive me if I happen to double post. quote:The election doesn't concern me in the slightest. It's an idle curiosity at best. The reason I'm participating in this topic is because I see someone being unfairly attacked and wish to defend him. Plus, I like a good debate as much as the next guy. :) I fail to see how Kel has less of a 'sense of community' than Alec (whatever that even is) nor why that matters. The rules didn't say "you can only transfer your votes to Alec, because he is a better candidate than Stug, Aran, or Thuryl, and it is the only responsible action for anyone who has a sense of community". Kel was not "placing his flaccid, elongated clitoris where he knew it had no place." He was applying the rules, as written, to support the candidates he preferred. And I think it's terribly inconsistent of you to insist on respect being shown for Alec while insulting Kel in the same breath. -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 1993
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written Saturday, July 16 2005 16:30
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quote::P That's exactly what I meant to justify hope. -------------------- ^ö^ vegetarians are sexy. Posts: 1420 | Registered: Wednesday, October 2 2002 07:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Saturday, July 16 2005 16:31
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quote:Congratulations! I award you the grand prize for missing the point. If you had been paying attention, you'd have noticed I used the phrase "transparently mean-spirited" because that is the phrase Stug used to describe the actions of myself and others. So take your sweaty left testicles back and deliver them to the correct address. [quote]TM has a good point, painful as it is, for me to admit such. Kel ran a campaign on a joke principle. He seemingly had little intention to take it seriously, by the time that voting came about, so we can hardly say that he had the community's best interests at heart. While it was his democratic right to run, that doesn't mean that it's right to nonce up a serious matter, with a joke for a principle.[/quote]What? Are you saying that nobody could have seriously thought Kel would be a good mod? Or are you saying that his choice to support Stug, Aran, and Thuryl over Alec was an obviously non-serious choice? I'm really confused as to how you can think that anything Kel did 'nonced up a serious matter.' -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Saturday, July 16 2005 16:36
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quote:Please note that I have not responded in a hostile manner to anyone, and I don't think Sullust has either. I haven't thrown insults around and I certainly wasn't the one accusing someone else of 'placing his flaccid, elongated clitoris where he knew it had no place.' -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2476
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written Saturday, July 16 2005 16:37
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What are you after, Ash? Trying to provoke TM to forget all restraint and get himself banned again? Why not stop now. It won't lead anywhere. -------------------- Polaris Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Saturday, July 16 2005 16:38
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quote:You're too new to remember, but Alec has left forever before. He'll be back eventually. -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Master
Member # 4614
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written Saturday, July 16 2005 16:39
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The way I see it, Alec proposed an election to get himself elected to be moderator, got a hopful number of votes, but didn't make it into the final round. Therefore, he started blaming and throwing a fit and left. That's very immature and inappropriate behavior if you ask me. But I'm pretty sure he'll get over it, which also means there's a good chance of him being back as soon as he gets bored someday. Alec, you did not win the election. So what? Neither did a bunch of other people, including Kelandon. -------------------- -ben4808 For those who love to spam: CSM Forums RIFQ Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00 |