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Leaders of the Empire? in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #35
The definition of "veteran" is not an easy one to make. There are two factors that are vital: time of active membership in the community and actual contributions. Usually these two go hand in hand.

Anyone who has been a member of the community consistently since BoE was released (or a year after) is, in my eyes, a veteran. However, this is an unreasonable and unattainable goal. So, the other measure needs to come into play. The most significant contributions to Blades are scenarios. Anyone who makes several high quality scenarios would definitely qualify. For instance, TM is a very boardline case in my eyes. He has made LOTS of scenarios and been with the community for some time, it's just that none of them have really made it into the hall of greats IMHO.

While I have no problems with newer members (or at least newly active members) making contributions, and I definitely encourage it, there are certain areas that I have qualms about such as arbitrarily creating history. I don't know, it's just when we did a lot of the timeline stuff we left a lot open for future scenario designers on purpose. Now it feels as if this void we left for a specific reason is just arbitrarily being filled with little thought. That is why I am a bit uneasy about all of this.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Leaders of the Empire? in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #28
I (and other veterans) already worked out the generalized Imperial timeline about a year and a half ago. Sorry guys, but it's already been done. I left open many spaces for future designers. Part of the fun of creating a scenario is creating parts of the history. Leave that up to actual designers who have actually accomplished something. Creating all of this is really taking a lot of the fun out of what could be a very exciting exercise for someone who wants to write really good stories. I know one of the most enjoyable parts was writing the history of the Empire in At the Gallows, a scenario I wanted to make to be specifically worth such an honor. Leaving enough room for future designers was at least my original intent when we first made all of this.

I do not want to sound arrogant or self-righteous, but I feel a bit uneasy about letting anyone who is not a clear veteran touch the timeline in such ways. The only people I would feel comfortable with making arbitrary changes are: Aceron, Alcritas, Brett Bixler, Drakefyre, Akhronath, and probably a few other members who have been in the community for several years.

What I am asking is to please slow down and leave lots of space open. Be a historian, not a history writer. At very least, the changes you make need to be brought up with the community who have pretty much inhereted the universe.

I would make the official timeline only featuring events from the best scenarios (at least 4.5 on the Spiderweb tables). This will leave the timeline relatively open for the present, encourage designers to write in time periods that are not done, and set a high enough bar such that contradictions are unlikely.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Leaders of the Empire? in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #16
Nobody has a surname in the Exile/Avernum universe, only one name. I cannot think of any exception to this. It is Prazac, not Sally Prazac or Jane Prazac, just Prazac. Why wouldn't anyone name themselves Ironclad, Sol, etc.? Remember we live in a different universe with different names than Josh or Bill. That is how just about every monarchy works in their naming.

Take the Roman Empire as a model for how a real Empire will function. The periods in between many of the Emperors was not clean at all. What this government type needs to stay stable is a very strong and wise ruler capable of melding the inevitable warring factions. It is unreasonable to think that every ruler for centuries at a time will be capable of this.

Prazac was a very powerful and wise ruler, being benevolent. Her policies ironically led to the later Emperors, at least up to Tahvan IV, to be mere figureheads with all the real ruling done by the bureaucrats.

I say, leave the timeline as is only with things in scenarios. If you want to make an addition, write a piece of work. Serious contradictions did not arise in the how many years BoE was released. The timeline can be an issue to be revisited and reshaped as need be. If contradictions do arise, the community can work out ways to compromise things.

Here is the timeline as I see it:

Prehistory

Aizonic Empire

Sol I
Sol II
Sol III
Ironclad I
Viceroy I

* Rebellion where many very short lived Emperors claim the throne; could be Ironclad II-V, etc.

* Stability re-established. Many cycles of stability and instability. Genocide of non-human races accelerates. Nephilim nearly wiped out, Troglodytes and numerous other races go extinct, Dragons flee to Avernum.

Stewart I (business as usual Emperor)

Hawthorne I (start of line of three strong oppressive Emperors)
Hawthorne II
Hawthorne III (Exile/Avernum)
Prazac I (Exile III/Avernum III)

* The "golden age" where Emperors have been reduced to figureheads and bureaucracy rules unofficially. Society becomes very open.

Tahvan IV (At the Gallows)

* Events in AtG cause the Empire to enter a slow decline. Emperors begin to reassert control. Openness policies are revoked in the wake of chaos. Situation slowly worsens.

Tigere III (Spears)

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Let specifics be decided by the designers. Put in events such as Valorim discovered or Troglodytes become extinct. However, specific details such as the Emperor name or events that are not really part of any major established BoE scenario should probably be left out. Just leave a large open space for the rulers where things are uncertain.

[ Sunday, July 20, 2003 10:30: Message edited by: *i ]

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Leaders of the Empire? in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #11
IMHO, the timeline is way too clean. It is unreasonable to expect that centuries will pass with all of the world's rival factions vying for the throne, embittered groups (of which the Avernites are an example), power-hungry relatives, etc. without major disruptions in the ruling chains. Some Emperors are strong, some are weak. The weak tend to be puppets and also live short lives.

I've always taken the names of the Emperors to be arbitrary and not indicating a rulership line. It is often out of pride, or arrogance, that rulers will name their hier after them, but this need not always be the case. Remember, Queen Elizabeth I was a member of the Tudor ruling family, but we do not call her Tudor V, or something like that.

The Aizonic Empire is ancient and predates known history. It's control has not always been absolute, and its existance has been sometimes tenuous. It was a very unstable Empire, often rich with infighting and barbarism. The purpose of the Aizonic Empire was to unite all of humanity under one nation. The dream was very old, but by about 100 BIE, the Aizonic Empire finally collapsed under its own weight and the dream was but forgotten. Much of the history of the Aizonic Empire was lost during its reign and after its fall; historians know little about it. A century later, Sol I resurrected the dream of the Empire on Pralgad, away from all the old infighting factions, an Empire which would ultimately be more radiant and solid than the one before it. This is according to the story in At the Gallows.

I would say leave much of the history writing to designers. It gives an incentive to be able to expand upon the history in places that have not been explored. So I would leave out anything that is not yet part of a scenario. Let the designers write the history, let the historians (community members) figure out how to incorporate it.

What is nCa/tCa?

[ Sunday, July 20, 2003 07:28: Message edited by: *i ]

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Leaders of the Empire? in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #3
Sol I was the founder of the Empire on Pralgad. Logically, his reign would begin at year one. The Aizonic Empire predates the Empire at Pralgad and had begun to settle the continents of Vantanas and Pralgad. It's decline began centuries before the founding of the current Empire. It finally collapsed when rebels sacked the capital about 100 BIE. A century later, Sol I established a new Empire on Pralgad.

Ironclad I lived a very long time and died without an hier, but would not be the last to carry the name. He was the one who started the purges of the other non-human races that would last for centuries. His appointed successor was Viceroy I, whose reign was spaned a mere three years when he was assassinated by an agent who had gone mad after being forced to slaughter numerous innocent Nephil and Troglo colonies.

The period after is not so certain. There was long power struggle after Viceroy I was slain with no clear ruler. Eventually someone was able to seize control and reestablished stability.

Emperor Stewart came sometime before the Hawthornes. Check VoDT for an approximate date. Assume about 10 years after E3 for the date of the scenario.

Tigere III sits on the throne as of 1477 in Spears. Her reign probably started about 10 years prior and will last for at least another decade.

Leave some of the spaces in between the times for other scenario designers to create. Before they gain community acceptance, they need to be a high-profile designer and of a high quality work.

[ Saturday, July 19, 2003 18:42: Message edited by: *i ]

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Is it possible? in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #42
Having the Vahnatai simply as disciples of the Dicidulites seems flimsy. Why would the Vahnatai worship them? It seems worshiping others is outside of the Vahnatai's race personna in classic Avernum. Nonetheless, I think this relationship needs to be developed.

Also, why the prison for Avernum? How do the people get there? Was everyone sent immediately or was it a gradual process of capture? Why are the Dicidulites involved?

I could go on with these questions, but the more depth you add to the interrelation of the people/factions in the story the better. Make sure everyone has a motive beyond they are just evil. Revenge is getting old hat as it pretty much drove the Avernum storyline, but if you want to use that route make it interesting.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
seeing Blade's overpowered weapon and armour... in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #2
One of the biggest mistakes new designers make is creating these ultra-powerful god items and somehow thinking players will be awed by this.

In reality, such items only detract from scenario quality except in very rare circumstances. For instance, in At the Gallows, I had a sword called Lyra specifically useful against Vampire lords. It was basically a normal Magic Greatsword with a slight Slay Undead bonus. However, when you go face Halloth, the sword transforms into an ultra powerful weapon. After the battle, it simply reverts back to its original form for the remainder of the scenario.

Blades of Averum will give the designer to link scripts to item use. If future designers want to have memorable items, I suggest they create neat little scripts.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
date in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #1
http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000105

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Hold on there a second, fella. in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #3
It's not whether or not I think it is a good idea, it's whether or not it would be fruitful to discuss. Jeff has routinely said for the past couple years that he does not intend to do it. I don't see how having a discussion here on an idea that will not get accomplished in the frame of this forum.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Concerning Custom Graphics and Macs... in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #30
I think the reason is more because Jeff actually knows what he is doing with Resource forks. Changing will involve modifying the engine and a lot of work for Jeff.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Hold on there a second, fella. in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #1
The problem remains. Jeff has frequently said he will never do this because of inherent maintenance issues. Until he changes this stance, any discussion on this forum is really pointless. That is pretty much the end of the story.

It will not be a feature of BoA, so it really has no place on this board. If you want to pursue it further, take it to the General forum.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
online gaming in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #4
First of all, there is an "Edit" feature. Triple posting is frowned upon on message boards, especially on ones where a company has to pay for its users to use.

Secondly, the bottom line is online Avernum will not happen. Spiderweb Software does not have the time nor the financial resources to do it. Sorry.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
What happened to the GAME of BoA? in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #29
I think a demo is extremely important will be one whether we like it or not, but with that point aside, I think it is a wise idea.

The BoA demo allows you to see the potential of the editor and the scenarios created. It shows you what CAN be done with the editor. It will show potential users the quality of the engine and such which is perhaps the most important.

I wouldn't buy a car without giving it at least one test drive. I don't have to test out all the special features, but I would like to see it run at least. Same thing here. We want to give people a chance to take BoA on a "test drive".

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Some Other Things About BoA in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #32
You could assign every item a value from 0-10. Zero being "worthless" or "hidden" and in no order, with 10 being the best and at the top of the list. A long scenario would just need to use these numbers wisely so as not to have lots of high number items at the beginning.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
What happened to the GAME of BoA? in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #18
The four included scenarios main value will be as coding examples.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Idea - 'Cutscenes' in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #29
http://stareye08.tripod.com/

This will take you to the page with my scenarios. Scroll down to find Foreshadows. It serves as a "prequel" to Spears.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Naming events/triggers/scripts. in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #2
Personally I never used events. They never seemed to work that well and there were always work arounds.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
When. in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #4
Late probably as in between October and December of 2003.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Confusion in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #1
Please do not flood the board with pointless posts. If you have ideas, bundle them into one topic.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Yo, Thuryl! in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #2
All right. This is enough Flaming Blade. This is your final warning about making pointless and/or unnecessary posts. Our board space is very valuable. If you continue, disciplinary action such as temporary and permanent banning will be taken.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Who? in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #1
Jeff Vogel is the president of Spiderweb Software and the author of all of the games. He has the final say on everything about Blades of Avernum.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Monster ideas in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #14
I think it may be best to stay away from the standard AD&D creatures. They have become all too cliched in RPGs. Rather, invent creatures to fit your scenario. The more creative the better.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
New Class specific abilities in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #2
Jeff has stated there will be no hard line classes in Blades of Avernum. He believes in a customizable system.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
What about $$$? in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #4
A discount for BoE users, possibly. It may be a while after the initial release before it appears, however.

Starcraft, definitely not. Anyway, Machizmo, please try to keep your posts somewhat relevant i.e. don't ask questions you already know the answer to. Spiderweb is having issues with space for the board, so if you like these boards, please follow this.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Be able to play with a Vahnatai? in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #3
Unfortunately, it's a non issue. Jeff simply cannot make it practical within his engine. Sorry.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00

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