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Someone tutor me plz... in Blades of Avernum Editor
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #1
That would be a problem. I suggest learning how to program at a very basic level first. If you do not understand the nature of flow controllers, there is no amount of tutoring one can do to help you.

Ask specific questions and we can help you. I sincerely doubt anyone has the time to tutor anyone with BoA.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Someone tutor me plz... in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #1
That would be a problem. I suggest learning how to program at a very basic level first. If you do not understand the nature of flow controllers, there is no amount of tutoring one can do to help you.

Ask specific questions and we can help you. I sincerely doubt anyone has the time to tutor anyone with BoA.

--------------------
Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
A modest proposal in Blades of Avernum Editor
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #11
You are far from the first to propose the idea. It's been tried several times before and always met with failure. The problem is there is no real incentive other than the warm fuzzy feeling of accomplishment and reading praising e-mails. This lack of incentive means that participants have no real motivation and pulling out of the project is almost inevitable.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
A modest proposal in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #11
You are far from the first to propose the idea. It's been tried several times before and always met with failure. The problem is there is no real incentive other than the warm fuzzy feeling of accomplishment and reading praising e-mails. This lack of incentive means that participants have no real motivation and pulling out of the project is almost inevitable.

--------------------
Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
A modest proposal in Blades of Avernum Editor
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #7
Besides, no scenario designer I know wants to invest time in someone else's idea.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
A modest proposal in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #7
Besides, no scenario designer I know wants to invest time in someone else's idea.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum Editor
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #46
I shouldn't say anything but, a few definitions:

morale - The state of the spirits of a person or group as exhibited by confidence, cheerfulness, discipline, and willingness to perform assigned tasks.

moral - Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character.

:)

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #46
I shouldn't say anything but, a few definitions:

morale - The state of the spirits of a person or group as exhibited by confidence, cheerfulness, discipline, and willingness to perform assigned tasks.

moral - Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character.

:)

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum Editor
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #42
quote:
Originally written by Vent:


* Obviously, when one speaks about warehouses of waste, one thinks of those of radioactive waste. In this direction, the scenario covers the subject rather well.

Except it does not at all. Radioactive waste is an extremely complicated issue. I understand the school was closed in a hurry, but why did they not take means of disposing of it? Especially since this meant really pushing a button.

Radioactive waste, on the other hand, is not as easy to deal with. However, there are other issues such as whether to store, reprocess, or even transmute the stuff. If stored, then the question of how much leakage is too much and how long does it need to be stored before it is safe. Time is not such a pressing concern on this issue. If the moral of the story is not to store radioactive waste in a repository such as Yucca Mountain, then the scenario really failed to present a side. If the moral was not to leave behind messes hastily, then I suppose. However, neither were clear in the scenario.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #42
quote:
Originally written by Vent:


* Obviously, when one speaks about warehouses of waste, one thinks of those of radioactive waste. In this direction, the scenario covers the subject rather well.

Except it does not at all. Radioactive waste is an extremely complicated issue. I understand the school was closed in a hurry, but why did they not take means of disposing of it? Especially since this meant really pushing a button.

Radioactive waste, on the other hand, is not as easy to deal with. However, there are other issues such as whether to store, reprocess, or even transmute the stuff. If stored, then the question of how much leakage is too much and how long does it need to be stored before it is safe. Time is not such a pressing concern on this issue. If the moral of the story is not to store radioactive waste in a repository such as Yucca Mountain, then the scenario really failed to present a side. If the moral was not to leave behind messes hastily, then I suppose. However, neither were clear in the scenario.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum Editor
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #39
I don't think you need to give everything equal time, so long as you give all aspects some explanation and perspective. Things that are evil and wrong for the sake of being evil and wrong are not good storyline devices.

The point with VoDT is that if you consider pollution to be your villain, it is ultimately shallow and the moral gained from the story is as well. We can debate about any implied moral all we want. All that matters is that if one was attempted, then it failed. Future attempts that present morals should be able to look at VoDTs shortcomings and improve upon them.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #39
I don't think you need to give everything equal time, so long as you give all aspects some explanation and perspective. Things that are evil and wrong for the sake of being evil and wrong are not good storyline devices.

The point with VoDT is that if you consider pollution to be your villain, it is ultimately shallow and the moral gained from the story is as well. We can debate about any implied moral all we want. All that matters is that if one was attempted, then it failed. Future attempts that present morals should be able to look at VoDTs shortcomings and improve upon them.

--------------------
Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum Editor
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #37
Creator, you should append the previous post to the bottom of your article as a summary.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #37
Creator, you should append the previous post to the bottom of your article as a summary.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Babysitting released in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #44
Linthar, why not post a review of it at the CSR:
http://p080.ezboard.com/fthelyceumfrm32.showMessage?topicID=8.topic

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
uh-oh, I got an idea... in Blades of Avernum Editor
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #3
Sounds like a repetative and ultimately anti-fun combat experience to me.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
uh-oh, I got an idea... in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #3
Sounds like a repetative and ultimately anti-fun combat experience to me.

--------------------
Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Article - 10 Dread Diseases in Blades of Avernum Editor
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #8
I agree it's how you portray the characters. If you can do insanity/demon possession in a unique way, then it is worthwhile. If it is insanity/demon possession for the sake of insanity/demon possession, then it is probably worthless.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Article - 10 Dread Diseases in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #8
I agree it's how you portray the characters. If you can do insanity/demon possession in a unique way, then it is worthwhile. If it is insanity/demon possession for the sake of insanity/demon possession, then it is probably worthless.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
I can't quite figure this out. in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #14
quote:
Originally written by The Creator:

Why not send donations to your favourite Blades designers? They put in thousands of hours of work and don't get a cent.
Not only that, Jeff barely acknowledges the efforts of scenario designers. He gets all the money and all the credit. Even nice e-mails giving feedback are most appreciated.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Problem with init_quest? in Blades of Avernum Editor
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #1
Well, if you posted your file, it would be a lot easier to diagnose.

I always put the init_quest() code in my START_SCEN_STATE, but it should not really matter. Try putting them there and restart the scenario and try initiating a quest that way.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Problem with init_quest? in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #1
Well, if you posted your file, it would be a lot easier to diagnose.

I always put the init_quest() code in my START_SCEN_STATE, but it should not really matter. Try putting them there and restart the scenario and try initiating a quest that way.

--------------------
Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Article - The Challenge Pits in Blades of Avernum Editor
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #0
The Challenge Pits

When designing a scenario, an author will attempt to provide challenges to the player. Effectively challenging him or her is vital to the success of any scenario. These challenges generally take two forms: tactical and logical. Implementing these effectively is a challenge in itself. Doing so is more of an artform than a science, but there are some key pitfalls to avoid.

Tactical Pitfalls

Tactical challenges put the player in difficult combat situations. Many players say they want good challenging combat. Knowing how much (quantity) and what kind (quality) to implement is a difficult judgment and is a balancing game every designer must play.

In terms of the quantity of combat, the designer should try to keep the combat fresh. Fight, after fight, after fight, after fight of hack slash mania gets old very quickly. This is not to say that you should not have some combat, but you need to be careful not to overuse it. If the player just hacked up twenty skeletons, they probably will not need another room full of them. Do something a little different in the next room that may not involve combat at all. The pitfall to avoid is making a dungeon full of monsters and leaving nothing really interesting there in terms of the combat. Smashing up lots of bandits becomes very, very tedious and the player needs another way to satisfy his or her interests.

The other issue with quantity is not how much combat, but how strong the monsters in the combat are. A common mistake of a novice designer is to equate big numbers in the monster stat fields as a challenging, interesting, and fun combat experience. 99% of the time it turns out to be aggravating, mundane, and boring. Raising stats to increase a challenge is fine, but as you increase the stats, the fun factor first increases until some fuzzy point where the combat becomes tedious and then the fun drops like a boulder off a high cliff. To increase the fun factor past this, you need to improve the quality of the combat.

There are many ways to improve the quality of combat. All involve doing something unexpected, out of the ordinary, and hopefully thrilling. BoA offers a powerful scripting tool to work both internally and externally to the monsters involved.

Working internally involves using monster scripts to influence the behavior. The original BoA scenarios are full of little tricks that have a various creature do something unexpected and out of the ordinary whether it be firing a harmful beam, summoning allies, or teleporting PCs. These got a little old after some time and the scripts used there are quite elementary and mundane. For future scenarios, designers will need to come up with new tricks to improve the combat experience. Just remember that harder does not always equal better, creativity does.

External combat effects involve using scripts or effective placement to do something unexpected. An example would be having a big fight and as the party begins to win, several allies bust in and surround the party renewing the challenge. Simple things like having monsters sneak up on the party can be an effective way to improve the challenge and catch the player off guard.

Doing things the player does not expect is key to improving the effect of the combat. Just remember to avoid the key pitfall in combat: more is not always better.

The Logic of Illogic

So now you've just had the combat that made the player's heart race. Now you want to switch gears and do something more cerebral. You want a logical challenge or some kind of puzzle. Well, that's great, but you need to be careful to avoid the pitfalls of logical puzzles.

Logical puzzles should be there to challenge the player, not annoy them. Do not make something so elaborate and complicated, that it would take hours upon hours to complete. Creating the appropriate amount of logical challenge is much more difficult than with tactical challenges because the stats of the party generally do not matter, but the stats of the player (which you have no way to monitor) do. In creating these, make sure you have plenty of clues and explanations of any necessary background information necessary. Mandatory riddles should be avoided since they often assume a cultural or language background the player may not have. The key pitfall to avoid is making invalid assumptions about a player and failing to provide enough necessary background information to him or her.

The common novice mistake is to assume lots and lots of secret passages and levers are a good thing. This is patently untrue. I cannot count the number of novice dungeons I have played that were "puzzle dungeons" of little more than secret passages, pulling levers and switches to open gates, and finding keys to unlock doors or chests. These have been done a bagillion times before and we do not need more of them. It is fine to use these traditional outlets if they make sense. If it makes sense to have a gate or a locked door, feel free to use it. If the secret passage is there for a good reason, use it.

This brings up the point of logical puzzles versus illogical puzzles. The logical challenges you have should be logical and make sense in the context of the dungeon. Having a teleportation maze in a goblin lair is generally not a good idea. Ideally, you want to make the logical challenge blend in with the dungeon. The puzzle is there because it should be there and makes perfect sense. Designers should at least attempt to justify their logic puzzles lest they become pointless illogic puzzles. Even experienced designers fall into the pit of creating a puzzle just for the sake of a puzzle which is not a logic puzzle, but an illogic puzzle and serves to annoy the player rather than impress him or her.

Staying on Level Ground

The main point of this article is convey what to avoid when making combat or logic puzzles. Do not make them too hard or obscure. Do not make them tedious and aggravating. Do not just throw in combat or puzzles for the sake of combat and puzzles, they should make sense. These anti-fun combat or puzzle experiences turn off many players no matter how good or neat the reward is. Remember completing the challenge should be a reward in itself, the item reward should just be a reminder of the experience.

--------------------
Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Article - The Challenge Pits in Blades of Avernum
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #0
The Challenge Pits

When designing a scenario, an author will attempt to provide challenges to the player. Effectively challenging him or her is vital to the success of any scenario. These challenges generally take two forms: tactical and logical. Implementing these effectively is a challenge in itself. Doing so is more of an artform than a science, but there are some key pitfalls to avoid.

Tactical Pitfalls

Tactical challenges put the player in difficult combat situations. Many players say they want good challenging combat. Knowing how much (quantity) and what kind (quality) to implement is a difficult judgment and is a balancing game every designer must play.

In terms of the quantity of combat, the designer should try to keep the combat fresh. Fight, after fight, after fight, after fight of hack slash mania gets old very quickly. This is not to say that you should not have some combat, but you need to be careful not to overuse it. If the player just hacked up twenty skeletons, they probably will not need another room full of them. Do something a little different in the next room that may not involve combat at all. The pitfall to avoid is making a dungeon full of monsters and leaving nothing really interesting there in terms of the combat. Smashing up lots of bandits becomes very, very tedious and the player needs another way to satisfy his or her interests.

The other issue with quantity is not how much combat, but how strong the monsters in the combat are. A common mistake of a novice designer is to equate big numbers in the monster stat fields as a challenging, interesting, and fun combat experience. 99% of the time it turns out to be aggravating, mundane, and boring. Raising stats to increase a challenge is fine, but as you increase the stats, the fun factor first increases until some fuzzy point where the combat becomes tedious and then the fun drops like a boulder off a high cliff. To increase the fun factor past this, you need to improve the quality of the combat.

There are many ways to improve the quality of combat. All involve doing something unexpected, out of the ordinary, and hopefully thrilling. BoA offers a powerful scripting tool to work both internally and externally to the monsters involved.

Working internally involves using monster scripts to influence the behavior. The original BoA scenarios are full of little tricks that have a various creature do something unexpected and out of the ordinary whether it be firing a harmful beam, summoning allies, or teleporting PCs. These got a little old after some time and the scripts used there are quite elementary and mundane. For future scenarios, designers will need to come up with new tricks to improve the combat experience. Just remember that harder does not always equal better, creativity does.

External combat effects involve using scripts or effective placement to do something unexpected. An example would be having a big fight and as the party begins to win, several allies bust in and surround the party renewing the challenge. Simple things like having monsters sneak up on the party can be an effective way to improve the challenge and catch the player off guard.

Doing things the player does not expect is key to improving the effect of the combat. Just remember to avoid the key pitfall in combat: more is not always better.

The Logic of Illogic

So now you've just had the combat that made the player's heart race. Now you want to switch gears and do something more cerebral. You want a logical challenge or some kind of puzzle. Well, that's great, but you need to be careful to avoid the pitfalls of logical puzzles.

Logical puzzles should be there to challenge the player, not annoy them. Do not make something so elaborate and complicated, that it would take hours upon hours to complete. Creating the appropriate amount of logical challenge is much more difficult than with tactical challenges because the stats of the party generally do not matter, but the stats of the player (which you have no way to monitor) do. In creating these, make sure you have plenty of clues and explanations of any necessary background information necessary. Mandatory riddles should be avoided since they often assume a cultural or language background the player may not have. The key pitfall to avoid is making invalid assumptions about a player and failing to provide enough necessary background information to him or her.

The common novice mistake is to assume lots and lots of secret passages and levers are a good thing. This is patently untrue. I cannot count the number of novice dungeons I have played that were "puzzle dungeons" of little more than secret passages, pulling levers and switches to open gates, and finding keys to unlock doors or chests. These have been done a bagillion times before and we do not need more of them. It is fine to use these traditional outlets if they make sense. If it makes sense to have a gate or a locked door, feel free to use it. If the secret passage is there for a good reason, use it.

This brings up the point of logical puzzles versus illogical puzzles. The logical challenges you have should be logical and make sense in the context of the dungeon. Having a teleportation maze in a goblin lair is generally not a good idea. Ideally, you want to make the logical challenge blend in with the dungeon. The puzzle is there because it should be there and makes perfect sense. Designers should at least attempt to justify their logic puzzles lest they become pointless illogic puzzles. Even experienced designers fall into the pit of creating a puzzle just for the sake of a puzzle which is not a logic puzzle, but an illogic puzzle and serves to annoy the player rather than impress him or her.

Staying on Level Ground

The main point of this article is convey what to avoid when making combat or logic puzzles. Do not make them too hard or obscure. Do not make them tedious and aggravating. Do not just throw in combat or puzzles for the sake of combat and puzzles, they should make sense. These anti-fun combat or puzzle experiences turn off many players no matter how good or neat the reward is. Remember completing the challenge should be a reward in itself, the item reward should just be a reminder of the experience.

--------------------
Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Article - High Level Scenarios in Blades of Avernum Editor
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #8
An article should be as long or as short as it needs to be to convey all the topical things you want to say.

--------------------
Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00

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