seeing Blade's overpowered weapon and armour...

AuthorTopic: seeing Blade's overpowered weapon and armour...
Master
Member # 1046
Profile Homepage #0
is it possible to have weapons that negate all enemy armour (i.e. armour-piercing weapons), and also have skill requirements? if that's possible, this would be a great idea for a weapon:

Shadow Blade
- two-handed sword
- 1-2 damage, 1 - 9 per level
Bonuses:
- +2 to strength
- +2 to endurance
- armour piercing
- +10% to assassination
- +5 to defense
- drains 1-2 MP per strike (you lose 1-2 mana)
- +5% resistance to fire, cold, magic, mental

Shadow Blade would NOT be available in stores, nor will it be sellable (if that word exists AND you can implement it in BoA). It would be found in a guild full of 8ap, magic-immune, fire and cold-resistant Blademasters guarding the weapon.

[ Friday, March 28, 2003 17:07: Message edited by: Urban Wise Man ]

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Polaris - owns you.
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Posts: 3323 | Registered: Thursday, April 25 2002 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #1
I don't think requirements are possible. I also don't know if elemental damage by percent is possible, but some equivalent could probably be found. Armor piercing sounds unlikely, but it may be possible.

—Alorael, who thinks all these items are a bit premature. First get BoA, then make a scenario with lots of interesting loot.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #2
One of the biggest mistakes new designers make is creating these ultra-powerful god items and somehow thinking players will be awed by this.

In reality, such items only detract from scenario quality except in very rare circumstances. For instance, in At the Gallows, I had a sword called Lyra specifically useful against Vampire lords. It was basically a normal Magic Greatsword with a slight Slay Undead bonus. However, when you go face Halloth, the sword transforms into an ultra powerful weapon. After the battle, it simply reverts back to its original form for the remainder of the scenario.

Blades of Averum will give the designer to link scripts to item use. If future designers want to have memorable items, I suggest they create neat little scripts.

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Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
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I might like to see a powerful bow that might curse you when you use it, or even take away some of your HP.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Master
Member # 1046
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well, i toned the weapon down to the point that it's useless unless you have high dexterity and high melee skill.

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Polaris - owns you.
Undead Theories - double U slash E
Posts: 3323 | Registered: Thursday, April 25 2002 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #5
I don't know if the spell point draining ability is possible, although if it is all sorts of interesting new weapons could be made.

I also doubt that it will be possible to connect to different things (dexterity and level) to the weapons damage.

—Alorael, who right now thinks the sword could make a very interesting weapon. It's really not especially good unless you're fighting something with huge amounts of armor, but a scenario could take advantage of that quite nicely.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #6
Alorael, you should definitely be able to have the SP draining with scripts.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Guardian
Member # 2080
Profile #7
Again with the scripts. Nothing is more annoying in scenario creation than a whole bunch of messed up and really confusing scripts.

Also what's wrong with making stuff like the BladeStar-Life stealing, or the Quicksilvar Blade-Increased speed and the ability to make the weilder invisible(although I could probably only have one of those abilities).

Designers shouldn't have to rely on highly confusing and overly complex script. I just think it's rather annoying to make this complex script just to do something simple. Besides scripts can't travel between the scenarios(as far as I know).

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"I don't understand a word you just said. Try speaking American. It's the only language I understand."
Posts: 1918 | Registered: Sunday, October 13 2002 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #8
The scripts are not that difficult. Again, we haven't seen a script that would be used in place of nodes yet.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 1823
Profile Homepage #9
Are you sure that scripts can be linked to items in the sense that when you attack something with a weapon or use a bow normally, a script is called? I always assumed that, by linking scripts to items, what was meant that when one clicks on the 'use' button (the little scroll or something by the item) a script is called.

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Posts: 530 | Registered: Sunday, September 1 2002 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 461
Profile #10
Wow...these scripts sound really powerful. Would something like this be possible?

Troll Shockhammer
4-32 + 1-8/level damage
-3 int, -3 dex
Does damage to user equal to half the damage done to enemy monster, and does one quarter damage to all other monsters and characters (including yours).

I'm not good enough at writing a coherent story to actually make a scenario, I'm just wondering what the possibilities will be.

[ Friday, March 28, 2003 04:54: Message edited by: jwj442 ]

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"If you held a weapon to Fwiffo's head, he would say anything you wanted him to. In fact, if you held a vegetable to Fwiffo's head, he'd say whatever you wanted him to." - Spathi high council, Star Control 2.
Posts: 346 | Registered: Sunday, December 30 2001 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #11
If it is possible to call a script every time a weapon hits in combat, then it should be possible. Again, I don't know if you could set the damage dealt to the wielder to an exact fraction of the damage done, but it wouldn't be hard to deal some damage to that character and then have an explosion on the space that deals more damage to everything in a wide radius.

—Alorael, who would recommend highly against that item. Using it outside would be painful to your party, especially the non-fighters. Using it anywhere with friendly monsters present could make the scenario impossible to complete.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 65
Profile Homepage #12
Would you be able to make something like this:

Pestilence Flail
-When used has a 25% chance of causing disease on attacked enemy.

I wanted to make one in Boe but you could only have items that made your party sick.

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Posts: 650 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Guardian
Member # 2339
Profile #13
Also, could you make this?

Dicidulite (dih-sid-ju-lite, tamers of the void creatures.)Tremor-Blade
8-60 damage
+1-6 per level
60% chance of charming void creatures
If fails to charm, +65 damage to void creatures.
one-handed
-20% chance to hit if you have less than ten dexterity
+20% chance to hit if you have more than ten dexterety
+10 damage to all hostile monsters nearby

[ Saturday, March 29, 2003 07:59: Message edited by: The Great Daemon ]

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Posts: 1779 | Registered: Monday, December 9 2002 08:00
Master
Member # 1046
Profile Homepage #14
isn't the base damage way too high? and the weapon wouldn't be overpowered if the charming probability was at something like 30%. and the bonus damage could be something like half the damage you deal to the creature, ON the creature ONLY.

and yes, i'm adept at nerfing weapons.

EDIT: fixed the + ... per level for Shadow Blade.

[ Friday, March 28, 2003 17:08: Message edited by: Urban Wise Man ]

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Polaris - owns you.
Undead Theories - double U slash E
Posts: 3323 | Registered: Thursday, April 25 2002 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 169
Profile #15
Most of it may be possible. The to-hit chance adjustments probably will not be possible, though. Now, could you explain this obsession with overpowered weapons? If you want examples of what the limits should be, try the A3 artifacts.

Dissection of this new weapon:
8-60 base damage - Excessive for a one-handed weapon. Also, may not be a possible range - see below for explanation.

+1-6 per level - High, but not unreasonable.

85% chance of charming void creatures - I agree with UWM - this is an excessively high value. Personally, I'd junk the ability altogether, or severely weaken everything else.

+65 damage to void creatures - Erm. Not really unreasonable, but I'd suggest maybe half that.

To-hit modifier - Probably not possible.

+10 damage to nearby monsters - On the one hand, I really don't think this sort of bonus is a good idea. OTOH, it isn't a very large bonus.

Explanation of comment about the possibility of the range:

If you haven't noticed, most weapons in A3 have an upper limit on damage that is a multiple of the lower limit. Additionally, the upper limit for bonus damage times the lower limit for base damage usually equals the upper limit for base damage. This suggests to me that the damage is determined as follows:

(Note: I am not aware of any exceptions to this pattern.)

Damage = XdY +1dY per bonus level.

If correct, it may not be possible to set weapon damages that do not meet the above constraints. You may want to consider this in weapon design.

[ Friday, March 28, 2003 18:07: Message edited by: Namothil ]
Posts: 422 | Registered: Tuesday, October 16 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #16
I doubt hard and fast percentages for charming are possible. Each monster probably has its own charm resistance, and you can only set those at a given level and put the charm chance on the weapon at a level that results in 85%. And yes, that's far too high, especially since every single monster you seem to have is a void monster.

I doubt it's possible to have a weapon only do extra damage if another ability fails. It might be possible with scripts, but I very much doubt it.

I don't understand this fascination with dealing damage to everything. The only way I know of to do this would be to have an explosion on a space, which would damage everything and everyone in a certain radius. Aside from problems if you use this sort of thing in an area with weak, friendly monsters, it's very irritating.

—Alorael, who also thinks that all these script-calling weapons are likely to be stripped from the party like special graphic items are in BoE. After all, it's difficult to call a script from another scenario. Keep that in mind before designing a better Super Blade of Infinite Slaying.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #17
Actually, that +10 area bonus is... enough to make me NOT want the weapon. It does very little unless you're fighting goblins, and has the risk of turning friendly creatures against you.
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
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If the damage is dealt by a script like the explosion node in BoE, it wouldn't turn friendly monsters hostile. However, in a town it would pretty much wreak havoc on the inhabitants, which could make the scenario impossible if some of them are important. And you'd also be frying your own party with every hit, which is always undesirable.

—Alorael, who can't think of any good way to deal ten damage to all hostile creatures only. It may be possible, but he can't think of any obvious ways to do it.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #19
The explosion node turns friendly monsters hostile. See Doom Moon II for painful proof.
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #20
In A1 I recall an explosion script somewhere hurting friendly monsters but leaving them friendly. It may have been in Fort Emerald when I tried breaking the emerald, but that usually kills everything in the room, including the NPC's.

—Alorael, who is fairly sure Jeff worked the kinks out of it. At least it doesn't turn the whole town hostile.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #21
In Blades of Exile, the explosion on space node hitting a friendly is indeed disastrous, as it hostiles the town.

This was probably changed for Avernum.
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 1016
Profile #22
quote:
Originally posted by *i:
One of the biggest mistakes new designers make is creating these ultra-powerful god items and somehow thinking players will be awed by this.

Hopefully there will be an option to keep custom items from being taken out of the scenario they were designed for. Or the ability to make your scenerio so that players can only take the standard items with them into it. Otherwise you'll end up getting items like

armor of tank magery
prevents 1-100 +25 points of damage
0% attack penalty in combat
+25 action points
+20 to all skills
+100 to all resistances
protection from (list all bad conditions here)

with one for each non wepon equibale item slot.

or weapons like
W3AP0N of K3WL D00D3RY
10-250 points of damage + 1 to 25 per level

+ 50 (each type of elemnt) damage
+ 50 damage to (list all monster classes here)
(inflects all bad conditions on target)

with one for meele, one for pole, one for missile, and one for thrown weapons. And of course the missile type would require no ammo and the thrown type would atomaticly return to the weilder.

(I actualy considered making such items for BoE, but luckily couldn't quite acomplish this)
Posts: 141 | Registered: Saturday, April 20 2002 07:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #23
There are already ways in Blades of Exile to strip all items from a party, you know.

And, um, I can do 7000 damage/hit in BoE, so... :)
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00