Profile for Suspicious Vlish

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Field	Value
Displayed name	Suspicious Vlish
Member number	2245
Title	Infiltrator
Postcount	522
Homepage	http://N/A
Registered	Friday, November 15 2002 08:00

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Infiltrator making a small investment in Creations in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Saturday, April 28 2007 03:26 Profile Homepage #3 Still: quote: Shaping is by far the most powerful ability for any class IMO. I'm not entirely sure about that. Melee and normal missile do indeed suck, but a magic user can cast several powerful spells which none of the PC's creations can (Terror, Dominate, Mass Madness, Essence Orbs, Haste, Bless.) For example, I was attempting to fight Shaft-toe with several Drayks, and he kept whipping me with his nasty servant golem. However, one 'Dominate' turned the golem to my side, and cleaned Shaftoe's clock (while soaking up all the damage that my Drayks would have received). quote: I run infiltrators/serviles with at least one or two creations at all times. I might even use 3. Yes, Creations kick ass. I find playing an infiltrator without creations quite awkward at times. It would be absurd for an agent/infiltrator with so much essence (due to the huge investment in intelligence to cast spells) to let it go to waste. Quite simply, magic is extraordinary, and Shaping removes the dangers inherent in playing solo. As one cannot cast effective spells without making a large investment in magic skills, whereas one can make fantastic creations with a minimal investment in Creations, the infiltrator is by far the best character. In otherwords, I've jumped from Servile to Lifecrafter to Infiltrator. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
How irritating in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Friday, April 27 2007 16:39 Profile Homepage #4 Slarty: quote: Why in the world would the creation stats table ever lead you to investing in those creations anyway? They didn't. Although the table is misleading. I thought that two Ur-Glaahks would have a more potent stun ability than a generic Glaahk, and hence be able to drain a single target down to immobility. How wrong I was! They can't even stun for 1 AP. :( -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
How irritating in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Thursday, April 26 2007 21:27 Profile Homepage #0 I was just messing around with the Ur-Glaahk on the Windows version of GF4, and discovered that it doesn't have a stun touch! Zip, nil, nada. My generic Glaahk consistently sucks away one AP, but the Ur-Glaahk does nothing. I've been gipped! Also, my plated clawbug does no poison damage, whereas my generic clawbug does. Someone might want to alter the creation stats table, so that future gamers aren't suck into investing in these trashy creations. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Infiltrator making a small investment in Creations in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Thursday, April 26 2007 20:32 Profile Homepage #0 For as long as I can remember, I've often argued that an Agent/Infiltrator who utilizes creations is more powerful than a solo Agent. GF4 is no exception. I just wanted to gauge popular opinion, and see what other veterans think. Poll Information This poll contains 1 question(s). 17 user(s) have voted. You may not view the results of this poll without voting. function launch_voter () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=vote;pollid=IczUohEdZNWi"); return true; } // end launch_voter function launch_viewer () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=view;pollid=IczUohEdZNWi"); return true; } // end launch_viewer function launch_window (url) { preview = window.open( url, "preview", "width=550,height=300,toolbar=no,location=no,directories=no,status,menubar=no,scrollbars,resizable,copyhistory=no" ); window.preview.focus(); return preview; } // end launch_window -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Monarch: Who Is He? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Thursday, April 26 2007 15:27 Profile Homepage #18 Tarra: quote: One flaw in that. The majority of people to see Monarch end up dead a few seconds later But there are a significant number of people who knew Monarch well (the refugees in Shaper Camp Gamma, Lilita, Kyrhk) who never thought to mention: "Oh, and by the way, Monarch sure doesn't look like a native." quote: (and the GF4 PC probably wouldn't know the difference) Huh? The GF4 PC may not know what a Sholai looks like, yet a lack of such knowledge doesn't mean that one can't differentiate between races, and know that foreigners 'aren't part of your race'. I don't need to know the name of the Asian race to know that Asians aren't Caucasians or Africans. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
What gloves are better? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Tuesday, April 24 2007 01:22 Profile Homepage #5 I remember reading something like that a while back. From memory, the damage is included, but not the bonus to hit. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
What gloves are better? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Monday, April 23 2007 19:19 Profile Homepage #3 The Gloves of Savagery are superior. They give more bang for the buck, and give a strength bonus to creations. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Monarch: Who Is He? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Monday, April 23 2007 19:16 Profile Homepage #2 Potential contenders could be: - The PC from GF3 - Trajkov - Goettsche - Barzhal - Phariton There's only one slight flaw with the Trajkov theory. It's mentioned in GF1 that the Sholai are physically distinct from the 'Shaper' race. If Monarch was indeed Trajkov, everyone would be able to recognize this and acknowledge that he ISN'T a rebel or shaper. As there is such confusion as to whether he is a rebel or Shaper, I'd assume that Monarch isn't a Sholai, hence isn't likely to be Trajkov. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
The Insidious Infiltrator in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Monday, April 23 2007 19:09 Profile Homepage #130 Synergy: quote: For the critics of the admittedly odious strategy and loyalty (or lack thereof) I am employing, keep in mind that this story represents two things. Firstly, it is an attempt to utterly maximize Experience Points and Levels attained, along with the ability to do and acquire everything possible in the game. Secondly, it is telling the resulting story from the experiences. It is going somewhere very intentional, even if there are unpleasant consequences. I know that you're attempting to roleplay a 'powergaming' character (sort of a paradox...). I don't have a problem with that. You can play the game any way you want, free country and all. Personally, I don't find powergaming very enjoyable. It just strikes me as absurd to assist a general, and then stab him in the back to get his 20 gold pieces. It's also very dangerous to harm both sides in a conflict, because you will end up with very few allies. Of course, I'm not averse to helping the Shapers to gain their trust, and the occasional reward, as long as it doesn't harm the Rebellion. :D quote: It is going somewhere very intentional, even if there are unpleasant consequences. Well, whatever you do, I doubt you'll choose the Shaper ending. That's bound for disaster. They should have a 'special' ending for homicidal powergamers who release the Unbound. Possible endings include: Scenario 1: "The Unbound climb out of the vats. You look around for Drakons to control them, but unfortunately, you killed them all earlier. The Unbound tear you to pieces. The end." Scenario 2: "The Drakons release the Unbound, and scourge Shaper lands. You might have been elevated to a position of leadership, but you just happened to genocide the entire Rebellion. There's no-one for you to rule over. Have a nice day!" [ Monday, April 23, 2007 19:10: Message edited by: Suspicious Vlish ] -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
The Chosen Ending - Geneforge 5 in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Monday, April 23 2007 06:04 Profile Homepage #76 I still think that it would be awesome to be a visiting Sholai who is forced to choose between the Rebels and the Shapers. Just imagine your character's reaction when he finds out how the issue of Trajkov was covered up. It's clear from the reaction of the diplomat in GF3 that the Sholai aren't entirely impressed with the oppressive Shaper regime. It's quite poetic that the people who started the entire chain of events of Geneforge have a say in how they conclude. [ Monday, April 23, 2007 06:05: Message edited by: Suspicious Vlish ] -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
The Insidious Infiltrator in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Monday, April 23 2007 03:25 Profile Homepage #124 I love this thread. But... BOO HISS. The only thing worse than a Shaper Loyalist is a rebel traitor who plays both sides. At least rebels who turn to the Shapers are loyal to a cause. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Fighting in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Monday, April 16 2007 04:18 Profile Homepage #8 Nunchukas and lots of screeching. "WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAA!" "This time, you're eating essence. Next time, it'll be STEEL!" "No ornks or serviles allowed." jumps up blasts sign with Essence Orbs -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Lodestone greaves in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Friday, April 13 2007 04:49 Profile Homepage #2 So the Piercing Gauntlets would add more damage to spell attacks than the Carlenian (sp?) gloves?! -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Lodestone greaves in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Friday, April 13 2007 02:22 Profile Homepage #0 Just a quick question: The item description for 'Lodestone greaves' says that you get +4 levels of damage in combat if they are equipped. The GF4 walkthrough says that this damage is added to both physical and magical attacks. http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/geneforge_4.txt "Most intriguing of all are the Lodestone Greaves, which carry a dexterity penalty but an immense damage bonus. Characters who use physical or magical attacks will find them very tempting." Does that mean that a firebolt's damage will be increased by 4 levels of damage if they are equipped? And if so, does this principle also apply to the Piercing Gauntlets, which add two levels of dmage in combat? -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Favourite quotes from GF4? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Thursday, April 12 2007 16:09 Profile Homepage #0 Someone should really add some quotes from GF4 on Wikiquote. My favourite would have to be the following: Akhari Blaze holds his arms wide and extends his claws. "The Shapers dare to declare that the Drakons can't exist? That are lives themselves are a crime? Now we will show them the true measure of their foolishness!" I think that really quite neatly sums out the 'kill or be killed' mentality of the Drakons. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
How odd. in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Wednesday, April 11 2007 18:16 Profile Homepage #5 I'm like Synergy. I don't have the patience to manually exit each zone. 'Exitzone' is a wonderful time saver. If Jeff hadn't put it in, I would probably become bored and frustrated with the game. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Why there? warning: displays secret of G1 in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Wednesday, April 11 2007 03:46 Profile Homepage #50 Retlew: quote: Anyway, how can you expect expansion without any violence? Why exactly did the Shapers need to expand? Why do they have this impulsive need to impose their laws and ways of life on all living beings? Why can't they just keep to themselves, and leave everyone else alone? You're asking how they could expand without using violence. I'm asking why they needed to expand in the first place. If the Shapers are indeed going to act as the imperialist, they can't cry and whine every time those they are colonizing fight back by any means necessary. quote: How many of of the empires/nations/states have been established in the history of the world with no violence? Imperialism isn't necessary to produce a happy, productive nation. quote: You are now looking to the past to make the Shapers evil? Well look to your own country's past and look how many of thousands/millions of gallons of blood have been spilled. All of your nations are bathing in blood. Yes yes, humanity's past is filled to the brim with violence, war and imperialism. It's an unpleasant and embarassing part of many nations' histories. However, invading countries to annex land and assimilate their peoples is seen as morally reprehensible in today's society (with a few odd exceptions, such as the Israel-Palestine issue). Just because it has been practiced in previous eras, does not make it acceptable. To unprovokedly invade foreign lands, butcher the resisting indigenous inhabits, and then enslave or impose your laws on the remainder, is unethical. There is no way you can twist it to justify the actions of the Shapers, or any regime in real life which has engaged in similar barbarity. It's funny that you bring up Australia's history. I'm not going to deny that the British treated the Aborigines with great injustice during colonization, and that their has been mistreatment by Australians up until the mid 1950's. Such treatment is widely condemned by today's Australians, and viewed as a black mark on our history. However, in recent times, we have been attempting to made amends and even the scales. Compensation, the returning of sacred land to the natives, a teaching of the horrors that occurred so that such things are never repeated, and a serious attempt to raise Aboriginal to intellectual and financial equals in society. Have the Drayks been compensated for the genocide against their species? Has their been any serious attempt to elevate the serviles to be intellectual and financial equals of the Shapers? I don't think so! [ Wednesday, April 11, 2007 03:51: Message edited by: Suspicious Vlish ] -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Why there? warning: displays secret of G1 in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Tuesday, April 10 2007 16:34 Profile Homepage #44 What's going on in this thread is pretty much what I have be re-iterating for goodness knows how long. Some lackey: "The Shapers bring peace. They are a peaceful people!" My response: "Um, they have a nasty habit of establishing 'peace' and stability with war and excessive violence." -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Where will G5 be? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Saturday, April 7 2007 04:42 Profile Homepage #34 Slarty has already address the issue, but I'd just like to make a few comments regarding Mica's statements: quote: Not necessarily. Why should both continents have a capital? They're both part of the same state. The Shaper Empire isn't a nation state as we understand it today. The Shaper Empire is, well, an Empire. The Romans had an Eastern and Western Empire, each with its respective capital. quote: With GF, we already have to make a leap of faith to assume that not just one, but two entire continents are part of a single state. Why? Why can't each continent have its own respective council? It's unrealistic for the Shaper Council on another continent to affect change on the other continent in a timely and efficient manner. quote: It's not much of a further stretch to suppose that there is a single seat of power across the two continents. It's possible, I guess. But Slarty has pretty much conclusively demonstrated that at least one Shaper Council exists, and that it resides in Terrestia. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Where will G5 be? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Saturday, April 7 2007 00:20 Profile Homepage #31 Interesting. The GF2 ending says that you 'reach the capital'. I think its reasonable to assume that Jeff means that capital of the continent you are currently on, otherwise he would have said 'You reach the capital on the other continent'. Yes, I know its not conclusive, but I wouldn't assume that a Shaper Council doesn't exist in Terrestia. Just because its 'less settled' than the other continent doesn't mean that it can't be administrated. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Shapers or rebels in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Friday, April 6 2007 22:38 Profile Homepage #2 Ahkari is my favourite. Highly competent, and willing to do the dirty work that many others are reluctant to do. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Ideologies of Geneforge (4) in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Friday, April 6 2007 22:36 Profile Homepage #57 Lord Safey: quote: Shapers at best influence the rebels moves. I'm afraid I don't agree. The reaction of the Drayks, Drakons and independent serviles is both highly predictable, and completely understandable. If a superpower deemed that you didn't have a right to exist, and underwent a campaign to exterminate your kind, wouldn't you fight back by any means necessary? quote: If I remeber correctly the takers try to get you to assiante the leaders of the awaken in GF1 the only group in the entire game that want diplomacy I do remember the attempted assassination, although I don't remember the justification. Either way, it's important to note that the Awakened's attempts to negotiate with the Shapers failed. Their demands to be treated with equality were laughed at. So in the end, the Takers were right. quote: Granted the shapers became complacent Complacent isn't the right word. Idiotic is more appropriate. Generating hatred amongst two intelligent races (the serviles and drayks), and then abandoning them on an island with forbidden technology, is the very height of stupidity. It doesn't take much foresight to guess what will happen. quote: However this rebellion only proved what the shapers said all the long. Every bad thing that the shapers said would happen if outsiders gained signigficant shapeing abilities has happened. You're only looking at half the scenario. Shaping has been used by outsiders in such destructive ways because they are trying to fight off Shaper aggression. quote: They messed up (no one is perfect) You seem to forget that their 'messing up' isn't an isolated incident. They messed up in GF1, GF2, GF3, and GF4. They not only started the fire, but continued to add fuel. quote: and they got a bloody nosed for it but they will clean up the mess they made by crushing the rebellion And you've entered a bloody cycle. They may crush one Rebellion, but what about the next? And the next? War may build Empires, but diplomacy is required to maintain it. The fact of the matter is that the idealism of creation autonomy has caught on. Serviles have realized that they can function as independent and free beings. The humans have realized that they can rise up against their former masters. You can't unring a bell. You can't reverse an ideology, even with the most extreme violence. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Ideologies of Geneforge (4) in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Friday, April 6 2007 16:51 Profile Homepage #54 quote: Who unleashed the unbound? Who tried to rebuild the geneforge? Who keeps growing more arrogant with each generation? Who escalitates the war? Who sends out countless rouge creations? When did the current rebellion or their predecccsors (takers in genefore 1) try for diplomacy? I'll repeat this again: Diplomacy was tried twice by the Awakened, and they were crushed. Why do you think Learned Pinner, the former leader of the Awakened, joined the Rebellion? And I don't exactly see how a Drayk or Drakon could engage in diplomacy. They are forbidden to exist. How do you negotiate with an enemy who forbids your very existence? It didn't work out so well for the Jews, did it now? Watch 'Uprising', and then get back to me. As to the Rebellion having Shaper roots: 1. Shaper carelessness allowed powerful knowledge to fall into the hands of its Creations. 2. Shaper callousness directly resulted in the formation of independent serviles, many of whom had a dislike/intense hatred for Shapers, and justifiably so. These serviles were the seed of the Rebellion. 3. Shaper genocide caused a logical progression of the Drayks allying with the serviles. 4. The Shaper's inability to negotiate, despite the fact that they hold all the cards, merely encourages more desperate acts by the Drakons. Those are some of the biggest blunders that the Shapers have made, just off the top of my head. The Rebellion is a direct product of the Shapers. quote: Who unleashed the unbound? The Drakons. Why did they release them? Because the Shapers want to wipe them out of existence. Once again, a rape victim isn't responsible for her black eye if she struggles. If the Shapers had merely accepted the existence of Drayks and Drakons, would the Drakons needed to have unleashed the Unbound? I'll let you ponder that one. quote: Who tried to rebuild the geneforge? Why did the Drakons need to build the Geneforge? To become strong enough to survive against a genocidal regime. Again, if the Shapers had merely accepted the Drakons, and negotiated with them as equals, then there would have been no incentive for the Drayk to Drakon to Ur-Drakon to SuperDrakon push. quote: Who keeps growing more arrogant with each generation? What does arrogance got to do with this? The Jews also tended to be elitist, andlook down on the 'Goyim'. Does that mean that they were responsible for WW2? Does that justify their genocide? Arrogance isn't a crime. And the Drakons are arrogant precisely because of the Shapers. The Drakons have been forced to reshape themselves to survive Shaper genocide. quote: Who escalitates the war? W Again, the Rebels are doing whatever they can to survive. The SHAPERS escalate the war by being completely unwilling to negotiate a truce, or even remotely consider the terms of the Rebellion. Once again, a rape victim is not responsible for her black eye when she fights back. quote: ho sends out countless rouge creations? There would be no need to send out rogue creations if the Shapers weren't on a mission to wipe all independent, sapient life off the the face of the planet. If the Shapers truly had the peoples' interest close to their heart, they would negotiate with the Rebellion. They would attempt to establish equal rights for humans and creations alike. However, they refuse to do this, because the well being of their citizens in incidental. The Shapers are on top, and they want to stay there. They are selfish, greedy, elitist, power-hungry megalomaniacs. They make the Drakons look like angels. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Ideologies of Geneforge (4) in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Friday, April 6 2007 06:46 Profile Homepage #50 Lord Safey: quote: Why accept diplomacy when your wining? We observe why in GF4. When one side is taking heavy losses, it will resort to more dangerous and desperate measures. The Shapers could easily have averted such a disaster by merely being diplomatic. Perhaps instead of sabre rattling, the Shapers could have tried to arrange a truce. They held all the cards, after all. quote: Did the rebels try to engage in diplomacy when they where wining?don't think so. It was all crush the horrible shapers. Attempts at diplomacy were made by the serviles, which were ruthlessly crushed. Time and time again, the Shapers have shown themselves to have no respect whatsoever for dealing with independent humans or creations. When the very act of being an independent and free thinking creation/human is a crime to your opponent, its a little hard to open negotations with him. Rebel servile: "I think that we should sit down and talk about this before..." Shaper: "No! You're not allowed to think for yourself, creation!" fireball quote: Don't think they are so horrible considering I have met more refugees complain about the rebellion then the shapers. A lot of Americans complained about the North during the civil war. Some complained bitterly about resistance to the Nazis, because it created chaos and disorder, and provoked collective punishment. The anger observed by some civilians in GF4 is misguided. The chaos is a product of the Shapers. Merely because the Rebels are fighting back does not make them responsible. A rape victim who fights back is not responsible for the black eye she receives. quote: People miss the stabilty and way of life shapers provided, Some do. Some don't. quote: all the rebelion has brought was destruction I'm going to be honest, and make an admission. I used to think the way you do. Merely check out my posts in the Geneforge forums less than a year ago. I was a staunch loyalist supporter, and used the exact same arguments you are. The Shapers brought order, the creations and rebel humans were a bunch of trouble makers, how dare they rebel. However, I then had a 'quantum leap' in ideology. The Rebellion is a product of the Shapers. The Rebellion continues to exist because of the Shapers. The destruction rife throughout the land is of Shaper origin. Everything bad that has occurred in Geneforge has its root in Shaper arrogance, intolerance, and decadence. I can't go into the details now, as its getting late, but I suggest you think back through the series. Why did the serviles originally rebels? What about the Drayks? Do they have a legitimate cause? Have the Shapers responded justifiably to their grievances? -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Ideologies of Geneforge (4) in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Thursday, April 5 2007 22:56 Profile Homepage #45 Spiff: quote: Two points: 1) Did the rebels, especially the Drakons, even approach the Shapers diplomatically? The Shapers have been approached diplomatically in GF1 and GF2 (the Awakened), and their desire to be treated as equals was laughed at. And they haven't been barred from existence. As for the Drakons and Drayks 'approaching the Shapers diplomatically', are you kidding? Their kind is barred from existence. The Shapers have routinely and systematically exterminated their kind. Diplomacy failed. Would it be reasonable to expect a Jew to 'diplomatically' approach the Germans during the Holocaust? And once again, I stress: "The Drakons make achieving peace difficult, but the Shapers make it impossible." quote: 2) Throughout the entire game, the Shapers know the Drakons are creating a doomsday type weapon. What great power in their right mind would, through diplomacy, grant the enemy the time they need to complete a doomsday type weapon? So the only way to stop your 'enemy' from creating a doomsday device is by ATTACKING him? Um, huh? Isn't that sort of counter productive? By attacking your opponent with overwhelming force, you're merely giving them incentive to develop highly destructive weapons to defend themselves. Witness North Korea, or Iran. Who can blame these countries from scrambling to develop WoMD, after being placed on the 'axis of evil' by the world's only remaining, Christian, Capitalist, superpower? Likewise, who can blame the Drakons for developing the Unbound, when the Shapers have pretty much sworn that not a single Drakon or Drayk should be allowed to exist? Alwan, perhaps the most liberal of Shapers in GF4, doesn't want to just eliminate all Rebels. He wants to eliminate all Drakonian and Drayk life! I've said this time and time again. The best way to neutralize the Rebellion is via diplomacy. Grant the Creations autonomy, the humans self-determination, and the Drayks/Drakons the right to exist, and you effectively nullify the Rebellion's very reason to exist. There's no reason to fight, and no reason to develop and unleash the Unbound. Any warmongering Drakons who wanted to disrupt the peace for personal gain would be eliminated by a combined force of Shapers and Rebels (witness the dilemma with Monarch...). -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00

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