Profile for Suspicious Vlish
| Field | Value |
|---|---|
| Displayed name | Suspicious Vlish |
| Member number | 2245 |
| Title | Infiltrator |
| Postcount | 522 |
| Homepage | http://N/A |
| Registered | Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
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| Oh, so the Shapers are more ethical, are they now? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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Infiltrator
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written Tuesday, March 20 2007 13:10
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Retlew: quote:Lilita mentions that Drakons are no longer shaped, as they find it offensive to their species. Drayks and Drakons now reproduce naturally. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| Oh, so the Shapers are more ethical, are they now? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Monday, March 19 2007 18:03
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I'd argue that the vast majority of creations we see shaped to 'make battle' are NOT sapient. The creations which I believe have been proven to be sapient include: - Serviles - Drayks - Drakons - Gazers - Servant Minds - At least some Battle Alphas (example: Freegate). - A small minority of Thahds. Pretty much every other creation does not display sapience. They do display VARYING degrees of sentience. For example, I'd argue that a Vlish has a higher degree of sentience than a turret or pylon. Note that sapience does NOT = sentient. A sapient creature is always sentient, but a sentient creature is not always sapient. [ Monday, March 19, 2007 18:04: Message edited by: Waylander ] -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| What people would you like to be? [fixed] in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Monday, March 19 2007 17:53
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I've always wondered why Jeff mentioned that there were TWO continents under Shaper rule. And why the other continent seems to have played no role in assisting its mother continent in the war against the Rebellion. Perhaps Jeff wants to go down the road where the Rebellion actually manages to conquer Terrestia, and is left with a bloody war against the second Shaper continent. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| National anthem for the rebels in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Monday, March 19 2007 17:49
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Arggh! Don't derail this thread, people. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| Are Drakons superior beings? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Monday, March 19 2007 13:32
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May I comment on the quote regarding the Drakon's 'lack of feeling' about Greta's death? Merely because a couple of Drakons in that particular instance showed no feeling, does not mean that they are incapable of empathy! What everyone here needs to realize is that humans are not popular with the Drakons. The humans created the Drakons. The humans enslaved the Drakons. Humans are hunting down the Drakons to genocide them. The human half of the Rebellion tends to care less about Creation rights that the other half of the Rebellion. And the human half of the Rebellion has shown itself to be inept when dealing with the Shapers. So you can't make a judgement about whether the entire Drakon race can feel empathy, just because they lacked feeling for the death of a human rebel, who got wiped out by prototype Unbound. No doubt they were thinking that she was just another pathetic example of a vainglorious, inept and oppressive species. However, I think there are definitely hints of empathy amongst the Drakons. For example, you can convince the Warmaster to turn off the electric fields at the Cairn Gates, but only if you mention that you have serviles with you. That shows that Drakons are far more likely to feel empathy for serviles than humans. Ghaldring mentions that one of the functions of the Unbound is to protect the creations and humans in the mountains. The Drakons aren't exactly the milk of sapient kindness, but they are no less cold than Shapers. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| Oh, so the Shapers are more ethical, are they now? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Monday, March 19 2007 04:40
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Emp: Are you attempting to compare the Unbound to the serviles, humans, drayks and drakons? From what I'v seen, such a comparison is inappropriate, as the Unbound definitely lack sapience, and it's questionable as to whether they are even sentient. I find the Unbound analogous to the terminators from 'The Terminator' series. To call the reabsorbing of the Unbound 'genocide' is stretching it a little, and is pretty much the equivalent of labelling the culling of free farm chickens 'genocide' and a 'Holocaust'. The term 'Genocide' is only appropriate for people (aka. sapient beings). If, after the Shapers have been destroyed, the Unbound demonstrate themselves to be sapient creatures, with traits such as language, introspection, self-awareness, a social structure, culture... etc. (all of which are observed in humans/serviles/drayks/Drakons/Eyebeasts), I would be up in arms demanded their right to life (unless they started attacking everyone willy nilly, that is. In that case, reabsorbing the Unbound would be in self-defense). And if they were sapient, and fought the Drakons to prevent their reabsorption, I'd be sympathetic to the Unbound cause. If the Unbound demonstrate themselves to be sentient creatures (aka. the mental equivalent of a cow or a rat), I would not be averse to the Drakons absorbing them once their job was done, if it was necessary (eg. the Unbound are too dangerous and unpredictable). However, if they are able to feel pain, I would rather that the Drakons not inflict needless cruelty. Despite their flaws, Drakons don't seem to delight in inflicting needless cruelty (in fact, the Drakon guarding the gates to Quess-Esss makes it clear that she will kill you quickly and cleanly). The torturer in GF2 for the Takers was a Gazer, who seemed to be a rather sadistic fellow. If the Unbound are neither sapient or sentient, then the Drakons are free to do whatever they want. Kllling machines don't feel or think. I'd be inclined to place Unbound in the 'sentient, but not sapient' category, at about the level a Turret/Pylon. They are able to identify enemies and react to negative stimuli, and are experts at killing, but they aren't capable of much else. A civilization of Unbound is about as likely as a civilization of Pylons. [ Monday, March 19, 2007 05:09: Message edited by: Waylander ] -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| The U.S. and Iraq in General | |
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Infiltrator
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written Monday, March 19 2007 02:20
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As they say, the superpowers and victors write the history books. So you'd better learn how to read Mandarin and Cantonese. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| Oh, so the Shapers are more ethical, are they now? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Monday, March 19 2007 02:11
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I fail to see how the Drakons could keep the Unbound around 'indefinitely'. They are difficult for even the Drakons to control. The longer they are around, the more likely it is that they will turn on their masters. So, it's not only ethical, but also intelligent and practical, to depose of the Unbound when they have done their jobs. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| National anthem for the rebels in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Monday, March 19 2007 01:59
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Great adaptation, Emp! The following isn't much of an adaptation. It's based on the English version of the 'Varshavianka' sung by Leon Lishner. It was a popular song during Polish resistance against the three annexing powers. It had Communist overtones, and hence became a favourite of the Soviets. This is a patriotic tune for the Rebellion, naturally... quote: [ Monday, March 19, 2007 02:06: Message edited by: Waylander ] -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| Are Drakons superior beings? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Sunday, March 18 2007 21:21
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What's wrong with you guys? Greed is NOT a common Drakon trait. There is only one Drakon with such characteristics, and he the one who alters you in GF3, and sells you canisters in GF4 (I've forgotten his name...). He admits that he is ostracized from his kind, precisely because of his greed. He's only interested in personal wealth, not in fighting for the Rebel cause. Hence his fellow Drakons shun him. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| Oh, so the Shapers are more ethical, are they now? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Sunday, March 18 2007 18:49
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Random: quote:Precisely! Up until the end of GF4, veterans have pointed out that Shapers have the moral highground, since they 'refuse' to use uncontrollable, powerful, rogue creations in order to fight the Rebellion. However, upon viewing the 'Rebel' end for GF4, it becomes apparent that the Shaper regime does not do such things out of the 'good of their hearts'. When they are finally on the back foot, they are willing to use any means necessary to fight the Rebellion. Sound familiar? Hence, we have encountered exactly why it is fallicious to condemn that the Drakons hold the moral lowground. Of course the Drakons will use more desperate measure than the Shapers, because they are in a more desperate situation. I have pointed out time and time again on this forum that the methods used by the Rebellion are not 'mad', they are actually quite sensible. Asymmetrical warfare has been used since the dawn of time to cripple stronger invaders. It has nothing to do with which side is more 'ethical'. What is important is whether such a method will work. Emp: quote:You keep forgetting that the Shapers [/b]don't need[/b] to release uncontrollable creations prior to the creation of the Unbound. The Shapers have crushed the Rebels in every major battle in the past two years. They have superior manpower, firepower, training and organization. If the Shapers have the Rebels on the back foot, why exactly would they need to release uncontrollable creations? Wouldn't it just make more sense to wipe out the Rebellion directly, instead of having to clean up the 'mess' you create? It's analogous to dropping an atomic bomb. Practically, precision strikes should generally be used in preference to atomic strikes, so that the land does become uninhabitable afterwards. It only makes sense to use atomic bombs as a [/b]last resort[/b], when you are desperate and near defeat. quote:Do not care? While I'm sure that the Drakons don't cry themselves to sleep at night over the innocent deaths caused by the Unbound, they also express that they feel that innocent deaths are undesirable and inconvenient. It's a pity that some innocents in Terrestria will die. However, they only have the Shapers to blame. The Rebellion exists because of the Shapers, and the Rebellion released the Unbound in response to Shaper aggression. If the Shapers had have dealt more diplomatically with the free creations and humans, then such horror could have been averted. What really confuses me is the way which you decry the death of 'innocents', but not the targeted genocide of Drakons and Drayks. What makes the life of a Drakon or Drayk less precious than that of a human? Drakons, Drayks, and independent serviles are sapient beings, and they are being targeted for extermination for merely existing! That is their only crime... to exist! What the Shapers are doing is the equivalent of what the Nazis done to the Jews. Why aren't you outraged? Why do you harp on about the death of 'innocents' (many who assist the oppressive Shaper regime), but turn a blind eye to the genocide practiced by the Shapers? IMHO, that's hypocritical. quote:Because they were losing? quote:That's a pretty miserable excuse. For the Shapers to release their own mad creations just makes the situation worse, and shows no real concern for their own citizens. "Sir, an army is marching through our frontiers, and tearing the place apart!" "OK, drop an atomic bomb on them!" Such concern for the civilians! ;) I think it's time that you realize that the majority of Shapers don't genuinely care about their citizens. The Shapers only care about staying in power. Everyone who has power is afraid to lose it. That includes the Drakons, Geneforged humans, serviles, drayks, and Shapers. quote:They aren't. The Shapers are far worse. If they hadn't decided to engage in genocide, then the resistance wouldn't have had to retaliate. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| Are Drakons superior beings? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Sunday, March 18 2007 16:59
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That doesn't mean that the Barzites knew how to create Gazers before the Takers... It's mentioned time and time again in the game (as Silver posted), that while Barzhal had the idea, the Takers were the first to actually capitalize on it, and create a Gazer. All in all, I see the Gazer as a 'joint venture'. Barzhal was the architect, the Drakons were the builders who brought his idea to life. They are both pretty awesome. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| Time Magazine: Shaper of the Year in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Sunday, March 18 2007 16:55
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Emp: quote:You don't need to convince me. I always thought that Barzhal was a pretty impressive character, and that he should have been fleshed out more. It would have been awesome to see him go one-on-one with one of the Taker Triad. Although in a sense, it isn't wise for the leader of a faction to run headlong into danger. As they say, if the head of the snake is sliced off, the snake will die... Better to stay safe in your hall softly glowing, while your minions do the dirty work. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| Wingbolts are over-rated in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Sunday, March 18 2007 16:39
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Retlew: quote:In your dreams, perhaps. Not even the AI Wingbolts (on Torment) could beat my two Drayks. The Wingbolts suffered from "We do lots of damage, but *just* not enough to kill a Drayk". Hence, my Drayks last for two rounds, which is plenty of time to kill a Wingbolt. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| Unbound a little small? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Sunday, March 18 2007 14:53
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SoT: quote:Oops, I just realized I made rather silly translation error! 'Viva' is Spanish. I was actually aiming for a French translation. So Viva should = Vive. I'll fix it... -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| National anthem for the rebels in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Sunday, March 18 2007 14:47
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Hah, we must think alike. When I wrote that sentence, I started thinking of Meatloaf, for some odd reason. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| Wingbolts are over-rated in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Sunday, March 18 2007 14:45
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Nalyd: quote:You'd expect that, given that Wingbolts are DOUBLE THE COST of Drayks. quote:In one turn? Probably. But the Drayks would end up smashing the Wingbolts, and that's all that matters. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| Wingbolts are over-rated in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Sunday, March 18 2007 14:14
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Ignoring resistances, 6 drayks would do more damage than 3 wingbolts. And collectively, they have more health. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| The Agent's Skin in Geneforge Series | |
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written Sunday, March 18 2007 14:07
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The agent has a 'sheen' to her skin. And no, you're not imagining it. She DOES have a slightly glowing skin. However, it's not always green. The colour of the glow is the same as the colour of her uniform. I remember noticing how sexy glowing skin was on a relatively well toned girl all the way back in GF1. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| National anthem for the rebels in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Sunday, March 18 2007 13:44
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Here's a quick adaptation of Dąbrowski's Mazurka: Verse 1: "The Rebellion has not yet perished, So long as we live. What Shaper tyranny has taken from us, We will reclaim, thorn baton in hand. Chorus: March, march, Lilita, From Dhonal's Isle to Terrestia, Behind your leadership We will unite as a people. Verse 2: We'll cross the Forsaken Lands, we'll cross Illya, And we shall be forever free, Ghaldring has shown us, How to be victorious. Chorus: March, march, Lilita, From Dhonal's Isle to Terrestia, Behind your leadership We will unite against as a people. Verse 3: As Ellrah to Drypeak After the invasion of Sucia, To liberate our brethen We will travel across the sea. Chorus: March, march, Lilita, From Dhonal's Isle to Terrestia, Behind your leadership We will unite against as a people." Hmm, I'm not sure how to adapt Verse 4. Ahh well, 3 our of 4 ain't bad! [ Sunday, March 18, 2007 14:55: Message edited by: Waylander ] -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| If you could be any creation... in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Sunday, March 18 2007 13:01
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I'd pick Drakon, and not only have the coolness factor. I also have a lisp! -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| Unbound a little small? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Sunday, March 18 2007 12:56
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Ok. It's just a little surprising, as I always visualized Drakons to be much bigger. From the way Jeff described Drayks (what was it... 10 tonnes of muscle?), I always thought that they were elephant size, and that Drakons were even larger. I guess I'm suffering from the "Drakons are Dragons" Fallacy. :P -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| Are Drakons superior beings? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Sunday, March 18 2007 12:50
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Why are we still having this argument? Silver provided quotes which strongly suggest that while Barzhal designed the Gazer, the Takers were the first to actually successfully Shape it. And Emp, you point out the existence of Gazer canisters when the the hero arrives in Drypeak. May I point out that all these canisters were in Taker lands? This seems to suggest that the Gazer canisters were a product of the Takers. Barzhal 'might' have left the canisters there, although I find that a little hard to believe. Barzhal might be arrogant, be he's pretty clever. There's no way he'd leave such powerful canisters behind. [ Sunday, March 18, 2007 13:27: Message edited by: Waylander ] -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| National anthem for the rebels in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Sunday, March 18 2007 12:44
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SoT: quote:Even though I know what you are capable of, you never cease to impress me! :D -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
| Are Drakons superior beings? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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written Sunday, March 18 2007 03:53
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Stillness: quote:Ahh, ok. Yes, we're in complete agreement there. Drakon 'hands' are far clumsier than human hands. I guess you have to make a trade-off for lethal claws. I don't think that the clumsy hands is a huge handicap for Drakons. They still can write and perform technical tasks (create canisters). Although it would still help to have servile/human technicians and scribes. Which is exactly why the humans/serviles and Drayks/Drakkons should work together. quote:Keep in mind that I fought for the Rebels, not the Shapers. There's no way in hell I would end up assisting the Shapers, given that they will no doubt execute/ostracize a 'twisted freak' such as myself. Greta = She was ridiculously easy. Of course, I didn't kill her, but I remember her only having approximately 350hp, and a relatively weak attack. She was useless during the final battle, and always seemed to get her ass kicked by the Unbound. Alwan = I found Alwan quite easy, but then again, he was a Guardian. No big surprise. Miranda = I actually found Miranda quite difficult. She tore me a new hole on a few occasions. But not as many as... "That Drakon outside Quess_Ess" = Yes, her. The Drakon guarding the gates to Quess_Ess was one tough cookie. Even though I recruited help from a nearby Drakon, it didn't stop me from getting a fireball in the face (and then, naturally, dying). At least I could take more than one hit from Miranda, but one hit from that Drakon, and I was history. quote:I was about to argue the point, but then I realized that may be right. Eyebeasts don't have the same abilities as a Vlish, despite being the improved version. I have vague memories of several Drakons casting spells way back, but I may be wrong. Let's just say that I wouldn't be shocked if Drakons could cast spells, but just didn't bother. The jury is still out on this one, I guess. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |