Profile for Suspicious Vlish

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Displayed name	Suspicious Vlish
Member number	2245
Title	Infiltrator
Postcount	522
Homepage	http://N/A
Registered	Friday, November 15 2002 08:00

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Factions in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Monday, October 2 2006 20:35 Profile Homepage #46 Emperor: quote: The Takers are spreading unnecessary chaos That is opinion, not fact. What qualifies as 'unnecessary chaos' is open to interpretation. quote: If the shaper regime were truly as repressive as you say it is, why do the Takers not have overwhelming support of the population? You've just answered your own question. Think about it... quote: It’s because they attack innocent towns, Perhaps you should tell me exactly what 'innocent' towns the rogues attacked? EVERY target attacked by the rebels could be considered a military target, or at least an outpost for Shaper rule. quote: they release rogues upon commoners with little to no affiliation with the shapers whatsoever. No. They don't release rogues on commoners. They release them near Shaper outposts, which will (hopefully) result in destabilization. Any civilian deaths are merely collateral damage. quote: They leave only destruction in their wake. Sort of like the Allies in WWII? I seem to distinctly remember Japan and German occupied areas being reduced to rubble by Allied carpet bombing campaigns. Ahh, now I see. The Allies should have just laid down their arms and allowed themselves to be conquered by Nazi and Japanese imperialists. That would have been so much better than causing 'destruction'. Perhaps you want the Rebels to fight the Shaper regime with cotton balls and feather dusters? quote: Yeah, real "sympathetic." Apparently there IS widespread sympathy for the Rebels, otherwise the rebellion wouldn't be a problem in the first place. In fact, a number of individuals with high positions have defected to the rebels. quote: The fact that people go to the shapers for protection Like the rebels on the second island? quote: rather than helping to overthrow their oppressive regime is all the evidence I need to show me who is in the right here. You have no evidence, merely selective observational skills. The vast majority of individuals serve the Shaper regime out of fear, due to coercion. This is evidenced in each of the 'rebel' ending in the Geneforge series, where many Shapers are murdered by their own creations while they sleep. Added to which, there is intensive brainwashing by the Shaper regime to force the humans and serviles into slavish obedience, similiar to the propaganda employed by the North Koreans. quote: It's like wanting to run away and join the circus, only this circus has deadly results. Partially correct. It's like wanting to flee Iran to move to a secular state. Only attempting to leave Iran and join the 'infidels' will result in you getting shot by the government that claims to 'protect' you. quote: Are the serviles not in better hands under the care of shapers than they are being thrown into battle by drakon overlords? 'Thrown into battle'? We must have been playing different games, because the last time I checked, the serviles are willing participants in the war against the Shapers. No Drakons are holding a thorn baton to their head. quote: Drakons seem rational? What's rational about destroying the world they are trying to free? Why not ask the Allies that? Or any revolutionaries or resistors to an invader? -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
batta Gamma? in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Monday, October 2 2006 16:00 Profile Homepage #2 You need to get 6 points in 'Create Battle Alpha' -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Factions in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Monday, October 2 2006 15:58 Profile Homepage #42 Emperor: quote: Where is the logic in trying to spread chaos? The Takers aren't trying to 'spread chaos'. They are struggling to overthrow a corrupt and repressive regime. In the process, chaos occurs. Chaos is a natural product of any revolution or struggle against a tyranically regime. Generally, the overthrow of a repressive government is preceded and followed by chaos, which is then followed by anarchy, and then (most often) the establishment of a new government. Would you have argued that the Jews in the Nazi concentration camps should not have shown any resistance to their Nazi oppressors, as they would be causing 'chaos'? quote: The Takers are cold blooded murderers It is not cold blooded murder to kill an enemy who allows the functioning of a tyrannical regime. quote: that would genocide humanity if they had the chance Nonsense. The vast majority of the Takers feel sympathetic to humans, as humans are also under the thumb of the Shapers. While the serviles are the slaves, the humans are the peasants. quote: They claim to support freedom and equality, but the serviles are as much servants under the them as they are under shapers. The Serviles made a voluntary choice to join the Takers, as have humans and even the odd rogue Shaper. In fact, it seems that serviles have a natural compulsion to want to be free. Otherwise the Shapers wouldn't need to be so strict in monitoring and controlling the thoughts of their creations! Either way, Serviles who join the Takers are willing participants. No one holds a gun to their heads. Unlike the serviles who serve under the Shapers... quote: It's more like only a child could see its validity. No, both children and adults who lived under oppression can see the validity of the Taker cause. quote: Which makes sense since serviles have child-brains The evidence contradicts you. quote: and drakons are insane. I disagree. The drakons tend to be selfish and coldly rational. But not insane. Nioca: quote: No good can come from the wanton violence that the Takers/Rebels support. What better alternative do you suggest? I seem to distinctly remember the Awakened of GF2 taking the diplomatic path with the Shapers, only to get destroyed for their efforts. The Taker logic is simple for this very reason: The mindset of the Shaper regime refuses to accept the idea of granting humans or creations equality. HENCE, it logically follows that the only way for Serviles and humans to gain equality is to overthrow the Shaper regime. And judging from what I have seen, the creation and human alliance would have a reasonable chance of destroying the Shaper regime. quote: The paradox is, the serviles can only get freedom by resorting to full-out war. Well, you've just agreed with me... quote: But in order to start a war, they have to become enslaved to another race. Not necessarily. I think you underestimate the tenacity of the serviles. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
need help~about some quest in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Sunday, October 1 2006 22:37 Profile Homepage #7 Random: quote: They appear usually at random times after you have visited the area once before so keep trying by popping in and out. I don't think that that is the case. They appear in a specific order. Once you kill one of the roamers, you must return and tell the captain before you can find the next one. [ Sunday, October 01, 2006 22:38: Message edited by: Waylander ] -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
drakon question in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Sunday, October 1 2006 22:30 Profile Homepage #8 Toast: quote: Ur Drakons are like geneforged drakons, so it would make sense that you cannot really make them. No they aren't... Barzhal had a Ur Drakon under his command in GF2... -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Factions in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Sunday, October 1 2006 22:28 Profile Homepage #39 The factions which I find most convincing? Geneforge 1 = Takers. Geneforge 2 = Takers. Geneforge 3 = Rebels. The logic behind the Taker philosophy is so mind numbingly simple, that even a child could see its validity. [ Sunday, October 01, 2006 22:31: Message edited by: Waylander ] -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
bashing anvils in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Friday, August 25 2006 01:59 Profile Homepage #9 I know that you weren't calling me an idiot. However, you would have to be pretty stupid to confuse the two. I'll try a drayk scale when I get the chance. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Character Names in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Thursday, August 24 2006 02:46 Profile Homepage #37 I have no imagination whatsoever. Usually I name my characters: - Darth Revan - Magneto - Waylander - Morningstar - Barzhal -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
bashing anvils in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Thursday, August 24 2006 02:38 Profile Homepage #6 Of course I'm using a drakon scale. I'm not an idiot. The fact that two people are having trouble with the same recipe is an indication that it is wrong. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
bashing anvils in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Saturday, August 19 2006 19:16 Profile Homepage #2 I'm having the exact same problem. The recipe I'm using: Demon's Bile, Stick, Gemstone, Drakon Scale -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Quick thought about boss battles in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Sunday, August 13 2006 05:09 Profile Homepage #0 Personally, I think that when you are battling a boss, you should receive no information on how much health it has. 'Health bars' should be non-existant for bosses. IMHO, this makes boss fights far more climatic, and a test of the player's willpower and nerve. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Shaper hypocrisy vs. Shaper tragedy (SPOILERS) in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Thursday, August 10 2006 03:53 Profile Homepage #148 Text: quote: Drakons can match humans in terms of intellect, right? So assuming that humans sympathize because of their intelligence, Drakons should have the capability as well. Sorry to butt in, but I see a few questionable assumptions are being thrown about. I don't agree with the assertion that intelligence is proportional to the ability to feel compassion. From what I understand, intelligence is the ability to mentally adapt to one's surroundings. Hence, the ability to feel empathy isn't necessarily related to intelligence. I'd say that a brilliant sociopath such as Hannibal Lector is more intelligence than the average human being. Personally, I think it's pushing it to say that Drakons can't feel empathy. I think that they do feel empathy, but choose to ignore it for the 'greater good'. Pawns must die in a game of chess. Unfortunate, but necessary. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
is geneforge easy? in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Tuesday, August 8 2006 19:14 Profile Homepage #8 Playing in Torment is always a challenge. The 'final' boss fights for Loyalist and Rebels in GF3 are brutal. Despite all of GF3's failings, at least the final battle is climatic. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Shaper hypocrisy vs. Shaper tragedy (SPOILERS) in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Sunday, August 6 2006 05:41 Profile Homepage #115 Mica: quote: Khyryk sympathised with the rebels' cause, but would not condone their methods. Khyryk may have felt a little sorry for the rebels, but he was still a Shaper at heart. He could have chosen to remain neutral in the conflict, but instead participated in the release a psychotic Shaper. Despite knowing that Agnatha was borderline fruitloop, and what a terrible vengeance she would take on a town populated by free creations, he aided in the massacre. He is a Shaper at heart. quote: Raeche (GF2) learned to respect serviles. True. And what did she do? She ran away from Shaper society. She knows that anyone who wants to grant concessions to creations cannot exist in Shaper society. quote: Litalia clearly held similar views, but was unwise in the way she expressed them. How else could should have expressed them? Could she have petitioned the Shaper Council, expressing her disatisification about their policy of genocide and oppression? Lilita had seen first hand what happened to those who questioned the absolute rule of the Shapers. She participated in it, remember? That's why she ran off to Ghadring. quote: Not all shapers are completely lacking in conscience. And yet any Shaper with a conscience and a desire for Creation liberation has fled Shaper society and joined the Rebellion. Tell me this. How many Shapers are active in the Shaper Community, attempting to press for greater rights for outsiders and Creations? If the answer is "None", tell me why not. quote: Prior to the rebellion, most shapers weren't even aware of the problem of independent creations. Partially false. Shapers are quite aware that independent and rogue creations/outsiders/Shapers are a possibility, which is why they have agents, discipline wands. True, they aren't aware that there is an organized resistance of creations. However, judging by how they deal with individual rogue creations, and how they genocided the drayks, it doesn't take the deductive powers of Sherlock Holmes to predict how they will respond to an organized resistance of independent creations who are using 'forbidden, Shaper-only' magic to defend themselves. quote: How can you judge all shapers on the basis of the actions of a handful, including the vast majority who are ignorant of the facts. You're ripping the situation out of context. This isn't about the actions of just 'a few Shapers'. It's about an attitude of superiority and elitism held by the Shaper society in general. It's about the fact that independent thought in creations and outsiders is routinely and systematically crushed by a cult who has an iron grip over two continents. It's about the fact that time and time again, whenever a creation or outside attempts to escape Shaper domination, they disappear in the night. There might be a few of the Shaper order who feel that such an attitude is not quite right, but they are too scared to say anything. They can't bring their objections before the majority, because they know that will be stripped of their rank, and most likely killed. quote: Remember when you first arrived on Sucia Island, you were astonished to discover that the serviles possessed enough ability to survive on their own and the intelligence to establish their own civilisation. This is news to most shapers. 1. You hadn't even started your apprenticeship at the time. 2. Your character was aware that Serviles could 'act out', and hence required discipline (hence the punishment cells). In otherwords, independent thought IS observed in creations (and outsiders) in Shaper society. And it is crushed. 3. Ironically, you've forgotten the ending of GF1. When your PC alerts the Shapers to what has occurred on Sucia, the Shapers travel there are decimate the Awakened. The Awakened attempted to reason with the Shapers, and were destroyed for their trouble. quote: There's no denying the rebels need to be able to defend themselves. This isn't just about 'defense'! It's also about liberation, and striking first. When will you realize that the Shaper regime will NEVER allow the existence of independent creations? It's not in their nature. It's contradictory to all of their beliefs regarding complete dominance and mastery over their creations and the 'inferior' outsiders. The rebels are perfectly justified in striking first. Not only are hundreds of thousands of creations and outsiders under the oppressive regime of the Shapers, the fact is that as soon as the Shapers learn of a group of independent creations, they WILL attempt to destroy them. This has been demonstrated twice in the past. In Geneforge 1, the Shapers destroyed the Awakened on Sucia. In Geneforge 2, the Shapers razed Medab to the ground. I distinctly remember that the Awakened's request for equal treatment was laughed at by the Shapers, before any dissenters were destroyed. If you know that an individual is determined to murder you, do you wait for him to point the gun at you and pull the trigger before you defend yourself? Such reasoning is absurd. Again, I quote Magneto from the X-Men animated series, since he sums the issue up quite well: "When I was a child, my people talked while others prepared for war. They used reason while others used tanks, and they were destroyed for their trouble! I won't stand by and watch it happen again, I won't!" quote: However there was a chance that sympathetic shapers could win over the shaper council and agree a peaceful solution. If this is true, why didn't Raeche return to Shaper society and attempt to negotiate with the Shaper Council, instead of joining the Awakened? Why didn't Khyrk speak out long before the Rebel uprising about his desire for fairer treatment towards creations? Why doesn't the Shaper in Dhonal's Keep express his doubts about the morality of creation testing? In fact, all three of these Shapers only voice their views once the Rebellion has begun, and all individuals are forced to have an opinion. Your belief that these Shapers could have reasoned with the Shaper Council is a foolish dream. The very reason that they did not speak out is because they knew that they would be persecuted, and most likely killed. quote: Following the war that chance is now gone. The Awakened tried to reason with the Shapers, twice. They were destroyed for their efforts. "They used reason, while others used tanks. And they were destroyed for their trouble." Quite frankly, if the rebellion is willing (and stupid enough) to attempt the twice failed methods of the Awakened, I suggest that when they go before the Shaper Council with a list of their demands, they also take a bottle of lubricant with them. They'll be needing it. [ Sunday, August 06, 2006 06:04: Message edited by: Waylander ] -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Shaper hypocrisy vs. Shaper tragedy (SPOILERS) in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Sunday, August 6 2006 03:01 Profile Homepage #112 Can you demonstrate that there is even the slightest chance that the Shaper regime will grant freedom, equality, and the right to life, to all independent Creations? If not, then how can you condemn the rebels for attempting to take their freedom? -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Shaper hypocrisy vs. Shaper tragedy (SPOILERS) in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Sunday, August 6 2006 02:48 Profile Homepage #110 Mica: quote: Waylander, we seem to see the Geneforge 3 situation in different ways. I think I see the entire Geneforge series very differently from you. quote: Loosely speaking, you see things in terms of WWII, and have identified the shapers as the nazis and the drakon rebellion as the western allies. Yes, I feel that the Nazi vs. Allies example is a rather fitting analogy. The Shaper regime believes that they are superior due to their magical abilities and status as Shapers, and hence have a right to dominate the 'inferior races'. Sometimes, this right includes genocide. Just look at what happened to the Drayks. The Drakons aren't morally pure, but then neither were the Allies. The Allies often targeted heavily populated German cities (eg. Dresden) in their bombing campaigns, in order to lower morale and encourage an uprising. quote: Equally loosely, I tend to see things more in terms of the Irish troubles, with the shapers as the British government and the drakon rebellion as the armed republican movement. Is this an accurate comparison? I don't think so: - British control over Ireland in the 1900's wasn't absolute. - The British didn't kill Irishmen merely for being Irish. They at least allowed them to exist. The Shaper regime won't even grant the Drakons the right to exist, as we observed in GF2. quote: In your eyes the drakons are a liberating army, in my eyes they are terrorists. 1. You forget that the Drakons aren't the only ones fighting. Serviles, drayks, other independent creations, outsiders who are sick of Shaper oppression, and even a rogue Shaper or two, are all fighting in this liberating army. 2. One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. quote: I have tried to take account of your viewpoint below, but please also consider how things look from the other viewpoint. The problem with the taker viewpoint is that it pre-supposes that a peaceful solution cannot be found. Oh yes, there is a peaceful solution. Lay down and die if you're too powerful. Become a slave to the Shapers if you're not. I don't mean this as an insult, but have you played the Geneforge series? Since when have the Shapers shown ANY ability to negotiate and treat anyone who is not a Shaper with fairness and dignity? In all three games in the series, the Shaper regime has reacted with extreme and unconditional violence to any creation which demonstrated independent thought. The Awakened tried the peaceful approach, twice. They tried it on Sucia, and they tried it on Drypeak. They were destroyed. The question here is: Do Awakened sympathizers now have the courage to try to path of the Takers? quote: While I accept your point about collateral damage (see below) I'm not too sure about your examples. That is the first time I have seen the French revolutionary terror justified! Do you agree that the French revolution had remarkable outcomes, even if 'terrorism' was employed? quote: There is a difference between inadvertant harm to civilians (as in Kosovo) and deliberate targeting of them. There is very little difference. In both cases, you know that your actions will harm civilians. Yet in both cases, you proceed with an action in which you know civilians will suffer. In both cases, you kill civilians for the 'greater good'. quote: The carpet-bombing of Dresden, nuking Hiroshima, and in general 'rounding up' and execution of dissenters - these have often been condemned. And yet many feel that such actions were justified. Since there is such controversy in the area, your assertions remain opinion. quote: That doesn't mean the cause wasn't just, but you can't go around killing others because they don't agree with you. But the Shapers don't just 'disagree' with the rebels. They want their total annihilation. quote: It is possible to take prisoners, you know. Why show mercy to any enemy who wishes your destruction? quote: If you act without concern for morality you become a monster. One can act commit small evils in order to satisfy the greater good. Collateral damage is merely one example. quote: To act reasonably you need to target the aggressive elements within your enemy, Isn't that what the Rebellion is doing? quote: In WWII both weaponry and intelligence were very limited, and consequently there were a lot of civilian deaths resulting from justifiable action against military targets. I accept these deaths were unavoidable. They were? Can you provide any evidence whatsoever to support your conjecture? We will never truly know whether the civilian deaths during WWII were 'unavoidable'. What we do know is that the Allies weighed up all of their options, and decided that a small evil was necessary to liberate Nazi and Japanese occupied lands. It is easy in hindsight to condemn such actions. 'Could've, should've, would've'. The fact remains that at the time, the Allies were confronted with two highly aggressive nations who had very little appreciation for human life, and who wanted to crush all opposition. So they fought back, and civilians suffered. It's sad, at the time, it was reasonable to believe that such actions were necessary. What we must try to determine is whether the force the Rebellion uses is proportional to the threat. And given that the Shaper Council has almost unlimited power, and absolutely no sympathy for an alliance of independent Creations, I'd say that anything goes. The Shapers are the occupiers. They are the oppressors. They have military superiority. At any time, they could deal fairly and justly with their Creations. Yet they choose not to. They cannot, and will not. War is the only answer. War is inevitable. And it is only reasonable that the Rebels should attempt to strike first. quote: But this is in a different league from deliberately taking action which targets civilians. 1. Not really, as I explained above. 2. I've never seen the Rebellion 'target' civilians. [ Sunday, August 06, 2006 02:53: Message edited by: Waylander ] -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Shaper hypocrisy vs. Shaper tragedy (SPOILERS) in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Sunday, August 6 2006 00:57 Profile Homepage #108 Mica: quote: Waylander, let's not make this an argument about words (clearly 'rampage' has a lot of connotations). Surely we can agree on this: 1. the shapers are antagonistic towards the drakons, and other free creations, 2. rather than merely hiding away, the drakons have developed war-making capacity in order to challenge the shapers, 3. there is some justice in the drakon cause, i.e. resistance to the shaper council which believes they do not have a right to exist. Agreed. quote: However, their methods involve indiscriminate killing and destruction, in my view this cannot be justified. The primary targets of the Drakons are the Shapers, and outsiders who are loyal to the Shaper cause. I have no doubt that there is collateral damage. The Drakons are forced to unleash awesome power in order to have any chance of survival against a regime which has an iron grip on two continents. It's unfortunate that civilians must die, but sometimes such deaths are justified for the greater good. Numerous civilians died during the liberation of mainland Europe from the Nazis. Horrific acts were committed during the French revolution. The American revolutionary butchered many individuals with loyalist sympathies. And yet we don't really condemn such actions. We see these acts as 'necessary evils'. Quite simply, it is easy to label someone an extremist. However, very few revolutions could have been successul without 'extreme' acts. The Drakons and their followers are fighting for survival, and liberation. If they take the moral high road, then they will be destroyed. And let's be honest, what good is it to have 'the moral high ground'? The creations have had the moral high ground for centuries, and they still remain slaves. The creations had the moral high-ground on Sucia, and they were destroyed. The Awakened has the moral high ground in GF2, and they were destroyed. quote: Unfortunately, the diplomatic course proposed by the awakened was not pursued and instead the taker viewpoint (kill them before they kill us) prevailed. Sometimes diplomacy is a lost cause. Would you have 'pursued' diplomacy with the Nazi regime? How many concessions would have you made before you woke up in the middle of the night to realize that all of your kinsmen had been destroyed, and a gun was being pointed in your face? As Magneto once said: "When I was a child, my people talked while others prepared for war. They used reason while others used tanks, and they were destroyed for their trouble! I won't stand by and watch it happen again, I won't!" The current Shaper regime will never accept even the existence of an independent creation, let alone a country of creations with some measure of power. So the Shaper regime must be destroyed. It must be scattered to the winds. Or at least, if the rebellion wants to negotiate a fair deal, they need leverage. After all, why would the Shaper regime make concessions, if it isn't necessary? quote: The drakons have gone beyond resistance and started down a very dark path. Sometimes, the motives of the Drakons are a little ambiguous, and we must wonder about whether they love power more than they love freedom. However, their justifications for why the Shaper regime must be fought in such a manner make sense, even if the Drakons aren't entirely sincere about their motives. It is debatable as to whether Lilita truly cared about creation liberation once her 'transformation' was complete, yet her arguments still remained valid. quote: A shiver runs down my spine when I hear the argument that the school should be destroyed, because it is turning out young enemies of the creations. So it is not right to target an institution which not only has fully fledged Shapers, but also Shapers in training? We will have to agree to disagree. IMHO, the Greenwood Academy was a legitimate target. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Shaper hypocrisy vs. Shaper tragedy (SPOILERS) in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Saturday, August 5 2006 22:35 Profile Homepage #105 Mica: quote: They're not just reacting - they're actively seeking violence That's akin to say that the Allies sought out violence during WWII by infiltrating German territory. The desire to forcibly overthrow a regime which will not allow you to even exist isn't exactly an unethical ideal. quote: How was the academy of Greenwood Isle a threat to them? The academy of Greenwood contained several Shaper Masters who were enemies of all free creations. The academy was a place where young individuals were indoctrinated and brainwashed into becoming true, bigoted Shapers. Enemies of the Rebellion. Greenwood academy was a legitimate target. quote: The people of Terrestria (we are told "the whole of Terrestria is in flames") weren't violent towards drakons, they never even knew they existed. 1. Terrestria is under the control of the Shaper regime. The Shaper regime has demonstrated many times in the past how it feels about powerful, independent creations. They did so on Sucia, and they did so in the Drypeak colony. 2. You also forget that the Drakons aren't fighting for themselves. They are also fighting to free all independent Creations. quote: As for point 2, sending others to rampage on one's behalf does not exonerate one from a charge of murder. You made it sound as though Drakons are mindless killing machines. This could not be further from the truth. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Shaper hypocrisy vs. Shaper tragedy (SPOILERS) in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Saturday, August 5 2006 07:08 Profile Homepage #98 Mica: quote: Edit: Waylander: what do you call GF3, if not a Drakon rampage? 1. I wouldn't call a resistance effort a 'rampage', exactly. 2. The Drakon's aren't really doing the 'rampaging'. They are just pulling the strings. The question here is why Drakon's should be restrained (from a neutral perspective, of course). They are powerful. So what? They are dangerous. So what? They have a tendency to react to violence with violence. So what? -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Shaper hypocrisy vs. Shaper tragedy (SPOILERS) in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Thursday, August 3 2006 22:36 Profile Homepage #93 Kelandanon: quote: Killing all of them seems too extreme, because some of them may not be a threat individually. Leaving them alone isn't an option, because they'll go on rampages and kill people. Since when does a Drakkon go on a 'rampage'? -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Most powerful Shaper 'build' in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Thursday, August 3 2006 22:28 Profile Homepage #6 DV: quote: Tried the game on Torment yet? I always play Geneforge on Torment difficulty. I completed GF2 in Torment with a Loyalist, no-canister Bullseye Shaper. quote: It should be rather self explaining why a Shaper should chose to have blistering offensive abilities. A Shaper's offensive abilities are in the form of his creations. You need to spend over 50 skill points to ensure that missile weapons remain effective throughout the game. IMHO, these points are better spent on increasing creation damage, dexterity and HP's. quote: Every shot counts. Having a shaper that can lead his troops in to battle and blow things to cinders is an asset. 1. A Shaper which can heal his super powerful creations is also an asset. 2. Participating in the battle increases the likelihood that you will be targeted (especially when you are fighting enemies who have a ranged attack!) quote: It is a lot faster, foes fall quicker, and it is not so boring as it could be just standing around doing nothing. I bless and heal while in combat. And creating super-creations is exciting. Although I agree that it is also quite fun to rain thorny death on a drakkon. Although I usually only used Submission thorns, so there wasn't much variety! -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Most powerful Shaper 'build' in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Thursday, August 3 2006 18:06 Profile Homepage #4 DV: I tried your Bullseye Shaper in GF2 (playing as Loyalist, no canister), and he worked quite well. Submission Batons are quite powerful. Stunning is nice However, Vlish and Glaahks do the same thing. Why should a Shaper specialize in an area which his Creations can do far more effectively and efficiently? [ Thursday, August 03, 2006 18:17: Message edited by: Waylander ] -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Most powerful Shaper 'build' in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Thursday, August 3 2006 03:24 Profile Homepage #0 I'm just curious as to what 'build' Geneforgers consider to be the most powerful build for the Shaper character class. That is, which build rips through opposition the quickest, with the least ease, and with the least risk to your main PC. Several questions to consider: - Is a Shaper who specializes in Shaping + Intelligence, and allocates the remaining minority of his skill points to Healing and Blessing, the most powerful build? - Is there a net gain in power if some intelligence and Shaping is sacrificed for missile specialization? - Is is worth placing points in Battle Magic? Mental Magic? Spellcraft? - Is a Dead Weight Shaper preferable to a Shaper which is able to heal and bless his creations during battle? - Is it worth wearing equipment which detracts from your Shaper's statistics, if the equipment also adds a significant stat/resist bonus to your Creations? - When investing in Shaping, how should one distribute their points between Battle, Fire, Magic, and Intelligence? [ Thursday, August 03, 2006 03:25: Message edited by: Waylander ] -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Geneforge 2 canister question - how much is too much? in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Wednesday, August 2 2006 05:54 Profile Homepage #14 SoT: quote: But I think that alteration to cast level 4 spells counts as at least one canister. From memory, being altered counted as two canisters. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Shaper hypocrisy vs. Shaper tragedy (SPOILERS) in Geneforge Series
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Wednesday, August 2 2006 05:51 Profile Homepage #80 Thuryl: quote: There's no evidence in the games that Shapers have the degree of control over creations' minds that you've been implying. In fact, there's considerable evidence against it; if Shapers could really fine-tune the personalities of their creations, there wouldn't be a need for all those shackles and discipline wands you see around the place. I just thought I'd chip in and comment on this. It is apparent throughout the series that the level of control a Shaper can exercise over a creation is inversely proportional to the intelligence of that particular creation. Experienced Shapers seem to be able to exercise considerable control over 'simple-minded' creations such as Glaahks and Battle-Alphas. Analogy: A sheep is less likely to act unruly than a dog. I think that the Discipline Wands are more a rare 'contingency plan' in case an experimental creation goes berserk. They musn't be used frequently, given that they are rarely present in the game, and often have full charges. As for the shackles, I always got the impression that they were for unruly serviles. And as I mentioned above, control is inversely proportional to creation intelligence. Serviles are highly intelligent creatures, and hence are prone to 'acting out'. In general, however, Shapers appear to have good control over their less intelligent creations. Thuryl, I'm also curious as to whether you are a vegetarian. You present arguments which are often used by the rational proponents of the animal rights movement, in that all sentient beings have intrinsic value. [ Thursday, August 03, 2006 03:19: Message edited by: Waylander ] -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00

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