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Are Drakons superior beings? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
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Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #329
Good point about quality vs. quantity, Stillness. Anti-Drakonians on this thread keep pointing out that the Drakons have created fewer radically 'new' creations when compared with the Shapers.

Of course, they seem to forget that the Drakons are channeling all of their creative energy into a 'supercreation'. Why would you waste your time on tangents when you're on the verge of constructing what is essentially a secret superweapons which can turn the tide of a war?

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Are Drakons superior beings? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
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Profile Homepage #326
Some posters continually point out Monarch, Lilita, and Barzhal as examples of humans with power that equals the Drakons.

I'd argue that these three character are not human, but are examples of what Magneto terms 'Homo Superior'. Shaped humans are to regular humans as Drakons are to Drayks. They have advanced beyond their pitiful pink fleshball state.

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Gazer/Eyebeast Immunities in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
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For goodness sake.

Why do you quote figures to 'prove' actual gaming experience wrong? I know what I saw. I'm not hallucinating.

Gazers are IMMUNE to mental attacks. It says so in the scroll-bar "Gazer is immune to mental effects" whenever they are hit by an enemy daze, terror, dominate, etc.. If it was merely high resistance, then the scroll bar would say 'Gazer resists'.

As for the acid and poison ancillary damage, a Gazer doesn't even get the ancillary 'effect' status bestowed up on. Ergo. He isn't covered in poison or acid to begin with, despite the fact that it should be hit by an acid/poison ancillary attack.

I've tried hitting the Gazer with acid batons, venom baton, artila spit, and Rotgroth attacks (!), with NO ancillary status granted to the Gazer whatsoever. I wasn't wearing any gear which bestowed poison/acid/mental immunity on my creations.

Also note that the Rotgroth, king of acid, DOES have receive the acid/poison ancillary status, although he resists a measurable proportion.

I've only experimented with Gazers, not Eyebeasts.

So once again, I am forced to conclude that

1. Gazers are IMMUNE to mental attacks.

2. Gazers are IMMUNE to poison and acid.

Which is just further evidence as to why one should replace Wingbolts with Gazers.

[ Sunday, April 01, 2007 15:51: Message edited by: Suspicious Vlish ]

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Gazer/Eyebeast Immunities in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
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Member # 2245
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I was checking out the immunities of monsters in GF4, and I realized that something was missing.

Is anyone here aware that Gazers/Eyebeasts are immune to mental attacks, and also to ancillary acid/poison damage? Gazers/Eyebeasts are essentially the 'new searing artilas'!

Oh, and on a totally unrelated note, someone should tell the author of the GF4 FAQ that killing Uchilette will net you a Shaper Robe. It's great for a budding lifecrafter to have this robe in Chapter 2! :)

[ Sunday, April 01, 2007 04:14: Message edited by: Suspicious Vlish ]

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Useful creations/spells in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
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I've played through the game again as a lifecrafter, and at times found myself a bit strapped for cash when I wanted to buy a decent skill.

Being economical never hurts, so one should only purchase skills/creations/spells that are useful.

The creations that I find useful include:

Fyora/Cyroa (early game)
Artila (early game).
Vlish (middle and late game)
Drayk/Cyrodrayk (late and very late game)
Wingbolt (late game)
Gazer/Eyebeast (very late game)
Drakon/Ur-Drakon (very late)
Kyshakk (late and very late game)

In general, I've found battle creations to be plain trash. Fire creations have the same, if not more, hitpoints (the Kyshakk has more HP's than the Rotgroth!)

Roamers and Pyroroamers are just pointless. And what use do plated artilas have?

Charged creations seem to be pointless. Has anyone here found a Charged Vlish to be good enough to justify its cost, and constantly declining HP's? What about the Burning Kyshakk/Wingbolt?

I'll comment on spells a bit later.

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Exile or Avernum in General
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Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #33
Exile definitely has nostalgia value for me.

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
your favorite geneforge in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
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Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #5
GF2 > GF1 > GF4 > GF3

Note that GF3 is so much worse than GF4, it probably doesn't even deserve a mention.

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Are Drakons superior beings? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Infiltrator
Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #305
Retlew:
quote:

Ignoring your enemy's/enemies' arguments even if you strongly disagree with them is not the path to take

If I disagree with someone's ARGUMENTS (not opinion) because they are logically fallacious, it only makes sense to discard and ignore them.

I'm willing to admit that my view regard Drakon superiority is indeed opinion, and that 'superior' is in a sense subjective.

However, the arguments put forward by one particular poster on this thread are downright absurd. I've said it once, and I'll say it again. This particular poster starts by assuming that his conclusion is an axiom, and then reinterprets all evidence to fit that axiom. Fundamentalists love to do this when scientific evidence contradicts their scripture.

If I do disregard an argument, it is because it is absurd, not because it doesn't fit my axiom.

quote:

Oh yeah, and just to reinstate why the US was never really that threatened by Japan itself is that the US only devoted 10% of its resources to the war in the Pacific. The other 90% was going to the war in Europe/Africa.

I'm not saying that you are wrong, but can you post a source? I know that the U.S channeled a lot of money to the Soviets in the Lend-Lease act, but I'm a little surprised that spent so little in their war against Imperial Japan, considering that Japan was America's most dangerous rival in the Pacific.

quote:

By the time the US dropped the atomic bombs on Japan Australia was not under much threat.

I guess you could say that Japan's naval fleet had been crippled (partially to extensive firebombing preventing new the construction of a new fleet) by the time the nukes were dropped, which is why the Japs resorted to Kamikaze.

Either way, there is no way to tell if continued firebombing and a mainland assault would have caused more civilian casualties than nukes. Added to which, American troops would have died in a mainland invasion.

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Are Drakons superior beings? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
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Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #302
Retlew, a member PM'ed me about your post, and I decided to take you off ignore. You are the lesser of the two evils on this forum at the moment.

quote:

1. No I do not condone the firebombing and the nuking of the Japanese mainland.

Ok then. I appreciate the fact that you're consistent.

I think it's important to point out that I'm an Australian. The simple fact is that after the fall of Singapore (the final British bastion of defense in Australasia), Australia was under imminent threat of invasion.

What turned the tide of the war, and hence saved Australia from invasion and occupation by a barbaric regime, was American intervention, and the firebombing/nuking of Japan. So while I dislike America as a nation, I can still be thankful of its actions against the Japanese, even if they are analogous to the Drakons releasing the Unbound.

quote:

2. America was never truly under real threat of a great invasion.

If Japan had have gained dominance in the Pacific, America would have been under a very real threat of invasion.

But may I point out that many Asian countries WERE under Japanese occupation (China, Indonesia, Korea), and suffered terribly. And, after the fall of Singapore, Australia was more than likely to suffer the same fate.

quote:

3. It was not just a two option question of what to do. It wasn't just either we nuke them or invade them. There were other options such as a demonstration on an isolated area or low population density area.

Would have that had any effect? The Japanese had been suffering firebombing for months, and actually were hesistant to surrender even after the 1st atomic bomb was dropped!

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VIVE LA TAKERS!
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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Are Drakons superior beings? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Infiltrator
Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #290
Ahh yes, Godwin's Law.

Pop culture from Usenet doesn't change the fact that my comparison between the Nazis and the Shapers is quite apt.

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
where are 3 drakon cantaners in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
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Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #1
http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=21;t=000073

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Are Drakons superior beings? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
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Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #279
The biggest mistake quite a few posters here are making is that they examine Drakon behaviour is isolation.

There also is clear evidence of double standards. They'll condemn the Drakon's for displaying rather extreme behaviour, but turn a blind eye to that of the Shapers.

It's obvious that the majority are biased against the Drakons, because they are not humans. It's far harder to sympathize with the plight of a 'cold blooded' reptile, and far easier to condemn their so-called 'animal' behaviour.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. The Shapers are, quite simply, Nazis. They engage in the routine and systematic genocide of sapient beings. It is not a huge shock that this has resulted in the Drakons being willing to resort to desperate measures in order to avoid complete obliteration.

I've noticed that several posters here have mentioned that the Unbound can't defend anything, they are just bred to attack and cause wholescale destruction. What these people fail to realize is that sometimes, the best defense is a good offense. The atomic bombs on Japan prove this point.

For those who condemn the Drakons releasing the Unbound, answer me these questions.

Do you condone America's firebombing and nuking of the Japanese mainland?
Would you have rathered to risk invasion by the Japanese Imperial Army?
Would you have rather that possibly hundreds of thousands of America troops die in a land assault?
Especially given that there is no way to know if a mainland assault would have resulted in more civilian casualties than the firebombing/nuking?

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Best PC class? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
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Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #38
quote:

if you don't stop picking on perfectly polite, reasonable, and intelligent people.

What are you talking about? None of those (excluding myself) are present on this forum.

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Best PC class? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Infiltrator
Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #36
Your sucky infiltrator doesn't scare me any more than Dicky's fyora.

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Best PC class? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Infiltrator
Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #33
Wow, you must really suck.

Anyone who spends the entire game leveling up a fyora, and who also refers to themselves in third person, is obviously an inferior specimen.

[ Wednesday, March 28, 2007 19:22: Message edited by: Suspicious Vlish ]

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Best PC class? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
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Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #31
Dikiyoba:
quote:

I prefer using a shock trooper, but I don't have any objective reason for it.

At least the shock trooper is better than infilitrator or servile.

quote:

Well, except that I don't mess around with magic in the Geneforge Series much.
That's your loss. Magic tends to be far more effective than missiles.

quote:
Dikiyoba reloads after creation death as well. The creations protect you, you protect the creations, and it all works out.

You shape creations for battle, and then protect them? That's contradictory.

Leveling up creations may be effective for the upper tiers which will not be reabsorbed (Drayks, Rotgroths, and Wingbolts). But leveling up a fyora or artila is pure madness.

I tend to reabsorb my creations before receiving any quest experience. This results in a high level shaper with powerful, fresh creations.

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Best PC class? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
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Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #27
You reload every time one of your Creations is killed? That's a rather silly strategy. I know that you're trying to buff up their levels, but I've found it highly impractical. Given that you're gradually increasing your Shaping skills throughout the game, it's better to just replace weaker creations with Drayks/Wingbolts.

A lifecrafter is dead easy, if you don't coddle your creations. You don't make creations in order to protect them... you make creations so that they will protect you.

I can just imagine Slarty Smirnoff the comedian:

"In your Geneforge game, your creations protect you. But in my game, you protect your creations!"

[ Wednesday, March 28, 2007 17:57: Message edited by: Suspicious Vlish ]

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Best PC class? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
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Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #21
And remember, if even ONE enemy manages to resist your spell, your infilitrator is dead the next turn (assume we are playing on Torment).

I won't argue with the contention that mental magic has its place, and is great for support. But to RELY on mental magic in order to survive is just a ridiculous tactic.

[ Tuesday, March 27, 2007 17:46: Message edited by: Suspicious Vlish ]

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Couple of quick questions about Reputation in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
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Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #6
You still get the next quest if you let Tycho go...

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Couple of quick questions about Reputation in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
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Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #4
Then wouldn't the Tycho quest be a Red Mage? You can let him go, and get a reward from both the Shapers and the Rebels...

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Couple of quick questions about Reputation in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
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Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #2
I don't think the Reputation guide posts what your starting Rep is. Although I wouldn't be surprised if it was 100...

And what does 'Red Mage' stand for?

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Energy Preservation in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
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Member # 2245
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If you could get 50+% energy preservation in the game, it might be worth it. Twice the number of aura of flames. Too bad that such a thing is impossible.

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Best PC class? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Infiltrator
Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #16
Infilitrator sucks. Her daze is no better than the serviles...

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VIVE LA TAKERS!
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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Couple of quick questions about Reputation in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
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Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #0
1. What Rep score do you start off with?

2. What Rep score is required to buy Shaping skills from the Shaper in Rivergate?

3. What Rep score is required for Alwan to give you the quest to fix Moseh?

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Best PC class? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
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Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #14
Random:
quote:

Daze is only meant to really work for the first 2 chapters.

It works fine for the 1st chapter, yet its reliability decreases significantly during the 2nd. In the 2nd chapter, I know that I will not be able to daze all of my opponents if I am swarmed.

quote:

In chapter 3 you can get strong daze and in chapter 5 there is mass madness that are improved versions.

Yes, in the third chapter. The problem is that you're getting beaten around in the second.

The only sure-proof way to handle swarms is with creations, and perhaps mass madness (which comes along too late).

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00

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