Best PC class?
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Infiltrator
Member # 2245
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written Wednesday, March 21 2007 22:40
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Before talking about my own experiences with each of the 5 PC classes, I want to ask Geneforgers here their opinion of the 'best' PC class. While 'what is best' can be subjective, I think we should take into account: 1. Survivability 2. Rate of damage output. 3. Adaptability (how well a PC can react to varying battles). 4. Thrill of playing. ---------------- Now, after my own experiences with each of the 5 classes, I've come to some general conclusions. 1. The servile battle mage is by far the 'best'. His hitpoints rival that of a warrior, and the ability to invest in magic further augments his fantastic battle abilities. 2. The 'agent-like' infiltrator has actually decreased in usefulness. This is due to the fact that its no longer as easy to avoid being hit. In previous Geneforges, an agent could quite easily avoid her foes, not take a point of damage, and eliminate everything. However, the new system of 'Anyone can attack, as long as they have AP's left' means that its very hard to avoid the foe. Added to which, the Daze spells seem to be nerfed. The Infiltrator's low HP, the fact that powerful spells are not present for at least the 1st third of the game, and the difficulty to avoid opponents, makes the Infiltrator have very low survivability. 3. The Shocktrooper seems like a nerfed version of the Battle Mage. Fewer HP's, and no magic to compliment your attacks? Lame. The 'bonus' of being able to Shape well is offset by the fact that any class can quite easily Shape. 4. The Lifecrafter suffers from the same flaws as the Infilitrator. 'Dead weight, 1 endurance Lifecrafters' are no longer practical, as its easy for enemies to hit you, and they tend to have area of effect attacks. 5. Soldiers, like Shock Troopers, are just nerfed Battle Mages. Poll Information This poll contains 1 question(s). 27 user(s) have voted. You may not view the results of this poll without voting. function launch_voter () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=vote;pollid=ygelIjTBkFRs"); return true; } // end launch_voter function launch_viewer () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=view;pollid=ygelIjTBkFRs"); return true; } // end launch_viewer function launch_window (url) { preview = window.open( url, "preview", "width=550,height=300,toolbar=no,location=no,directories=no,status,menubar=no,scrollbars,resizable,copyhistory=no" ); window.preview.focus(); return preview; } // end launch_window   -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Thursday, March 22 2007 07:15
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quote:I've been really underwhelmed by serviles every time I tried playing one. My ability to kill things before they killed me always felt inadequate. In an area with lots of powerful enemies like Fort Raevinn or Khima-Uss, I get surrounded and that 700 HP goes down to nothing in a round or two. I've had much better results with the Lifecrafter or even the Shock Trooper. Having 1 endurance wasn't really a problem for me; a lifecrafter can easily spare the essence for Essence Armor and Augmentation, and once you've done that you have about 200 HP and probably decent enough armour to survive a couple of hits from anything that's going to hit you. (And not that much should hit you in the first place; things die pretty fast when you've got half a dozen tier-4 creations or four tier-5 creations pounding on them.) -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 5360
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written Thursday, March 22 2007 16:45
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Well, did you still Shape? A servile modeled after the class that everyone wants. . . Good magic, o.k. shaping, weak battle, works excellently. -------------------- May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it. Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Thursday, March 22 2007 16:53
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The way I play I've always found that a lifecrafter that uses mostly magic with a dash of shaping does even better. The small improvement in shaping is worth the small losses elsewhere. —Alorael, who still has very little trouble with a dead weight shaper. Aside from the occasional battle in which you are forced into the middle, you can easily trail far behind your creations so they do all the fighting for you. If that's scary, keep a few back as bodyguards. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Canned
Member # 8014
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written Thursday, March 22 2007 17:10
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Shaper steps back from the battle. He forgot to bring body guards. Enemy destracts him by shaping a nude banana. He gets an idea and shapes a "lady". While he does that, shaper kills him. So yes, it would be good to have body guards. -------------------- I can transform into almost anything, though not sanity. My brother tried to type something here. I just erased it. Posts: 1799 | Registered: Sunday, February 4 2007 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Thursday, March 22 2007 18:55
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I don't know what makes you declare that Daze has been nerfed. I find Daze one of the most useful spells in the game. Magic is so effective in G4, that I have found the Infiltrator to be downright ferocious if you invest your skill points efficiently. Look here for a in-depth look at how potent an Infiltrator can be. Getting hit is not a big problem when you make crippling preemptive strikes. -S- -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Thursday, March 22 2007 22:20
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Look at some of the challenges that have been done and you will see that the only class that has problems is the warrior. This is probably because no one has warped it like Thuryl did with lifecrafter and shocktrooper or Synergy has done with the infiltrator. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2759
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written Friday, March 23 2007 10:00
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I really think the lifecrafter is the most powerful class. The key I think is to have a high number of creations (obviously with a variety of damage types). My army of creations was able to finish most fights within 2 rounds and the fragility of the lifecrafter simply never became a problem (most enemies will attack the foe who last attacked them; the key to keeping your lifecrafter alive is never attack anything personally). The lifecrafter doesn't need many spells other than curing, healing and mass energize. Edit: to clarify, my central view is that in Geneforge engine, action points are vastly more powerful than anything else. The bigger your party the more powerful you will be. A lifecrafter with a host of wingbolts, cryodrayks and ur-glaahks is more powerful than a singleton infiltrator or servile, however good their magical skills. [ Friday, March 23, 2007 10:10: Message edited by: Micawber ] -------------------- "I can't read this thread with that image. But then, that's not a complaint." -Scorpius Geneforge 4 stuff. Also, everything I know about Avernum | Avernum 2 | Avernum 3 | Avernum 4 Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Friday, March 23 2007 11:12
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The fact is that NONE of the classes have problems; they are all almost identical, really, if you look at things on a strategic and numerical level; the Warrior and Shock Trooper simply don't have ANYTHING to recommend them above the other three, whereas the other three each have their own strengths. I think there can be little debate that the Lifecrafter is the most powerful, while the Infiltrator and Servile are the most flexible. There is honestly almost zero difference between those last two classes, it's just a little extra HP vs a little extra essence. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Friday, March 23 2007 12:23
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While the game AI usually attacks the last thing that attacks monsters before their turn. If there are more monsters than attackers, it will go after a neutral (non-attacking) lifecrafter that is hiding behind a corner. I watched this happen to me repeatedly when I had only 2 creations versus 4 monsters. Still an army of creations gets in more attacks per round then a single character and this can make a significant difference. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 8285
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written Sunday, March 25 2007 05:06
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I like the warrior best if only because it looks cooler than anything else. -------------------- A duke is just a duke but you see, I am "The Duke" Posts: 65 | Registered: Saturday, March 10 2007 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 3828
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written Monday, March 26 2007 06:59
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I do love the infiltrator/agent character. Warriors and Shocktroopers have their own advantages like any other class. Servile and Infiltrators are more loners than the others, but trade off by been stronger in the solo skills. Life crafters are probably most difficult as soloists (due to the high cost of parry, lack of HP, ). Shocktroopers and Warriors probably get the most decent variety of attacks without having to use spells, they can probably devote most of the points in spells towards blessing and just use creations to sub for battle spells, whilst been able to throw in a couple of blows themselves. Shocktroopers more on the creatures as a frontline, whilst warirors more with the creatures as backups, but they both still have strong areas, its just their weak area, is one that people like using a lot. -------------------- Morbo is pleased but sticky... Posts: 33 | Registered: Sunday, December 28 2003 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2245
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written Monday, March 26 2007 12:41
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I've actually played the Battle Servile to the end of the game, and ironically, I found that it's more difficult than a Shocktrooper. As a previous poster mentioned, an extra 100hp doesn't seem to matter when you're being attacked by several wingbolts. And about Daze. Yes, it has been nerfed. Enemies become more resistant as you progress through the game, despite the fact that I boost Mental Magic. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Monday, March 26 2007 18:23
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Daze is only meant to really work for the first 2 chapters. There are some monsters in the later chapters that will be affected by it. In chapter 3 you can get strong daze and in chapter 5 there is mass madness that are improved versions. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2245
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written Monday, March 26 2007 22:59
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Random: quote:It works fine for the 1st chapter, yet its reliability decreases significantly during the 2nd. In the 2nd chapter, I know that I will not be able to daze all of my opponents if I am swarmed. quote:Yes, in the third chapter. The problem is that you're getting beaten around in the second. The only sure-proof way to handle swarms is with creations, and perhaps mass madness (which comes along too late). -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Tuesday, March 27 2007 01:03
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Or become a magically ferocious Infiltrator whose Daze actually keeps working. >:) -S- -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2245
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written Tuesday, March 27 2007 02:49
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Infilitrator sucks. Her daze is no better than the serviles... -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 8390
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written Tuesday, March 27 2007 02:51
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While I find Infiltrators to be more fun, I love the Serviles' ability to go straight through traps, rather than around them, and survive. Posts: 37 | Registered: Tuesday, March 27 2007 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Tuesday, March 27 2007 04:01
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I imagine pumping lots and lots into mental magic will make Daze almost always work on everything in the game. This was the case in G3, certainly. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Tuesday, March 27 2007 05:42
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quote:Shaping is more powerful than magic or combat. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 3818
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written Tuesday, March 27 2007 15:29
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Sorry, Synergy, but I agree with the Vlish. Battle Magic is highly effective with an Infiltrator, but Mental Magic makes me curse maniacally at the screen when the "...resists the charm/daze/strong daze/terror..." message is displayed. And this after subsequent castings of the same spell. With 20 Spellcraft and 9 Mental. At the start of Chapter 4. Too many upper tier creations are resistant to mental effects. The only consistently effective spells are Wrack and Energy Shackles. Vegas has better odds than my PC using some of the more aggressive Mental spells. Posts: 10 | Registered: Monday, December 22 2003 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2245
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written Tuesday, March 27 2007 17:41
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And remember, if even ONE enemy manages to resist your spell, your infilitrator is dead the next turn (assume we are playing on Torment). I won't argue with the contention that mental magic has its place, and is great for support. But to RELY on mental magic in order to survive is just a ridiculous tactic. [ Tuesday, March 27, 2007 17:46: Message edited by: Suspicious Vlish ] -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 7143
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written Tuesday, March 27 2007 19:01
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Until you get mass madness. -------------------- "After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one." - Cato the Elder (234-149 BC) "The mind, if it exists, is nothing but an unfortunate after effect of the brain process." -Kripke "One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly." -Friedich Nietzche Posts: 333 | Registered: Saturday, May 20 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Tuesday, March 27 2007 19:42
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When my Infiltrator goes into combat in the later game, Mental Magic is not her primary strategy. It is supplemental and for her amusement. She often starts one of her two earlier hasted attacks with Mass Madness, Charm, or Strong Daze, and her second move involves redlining or killing something else. She is not automatically dead if something is able to attack her. She does feel vulnerable in the last Chapter though, and this is a good time to put Create Drakon to good use. The Infiltrator at times requires more singleton-like strategies of luring off one or two enemies at a time to kill instead of running into the thick of a swarm. But she can kill things very quickly. And this is also what is fun about running an Infiltrator. precisely that she requires more careful strategy and timing. It is very satisfying when it is made to work according to her skills. Mass Madness is certainly very fun and effective for larger mixed social gatherings. I've started Chapter Five with my Infiltrator saga and will post on how it's going. Her mental magic is still plenty effective enough to be useful. There are just certain creations on which mental magic is not very effective, and upon which it never has been much. Kyshakks and Wingbolts, for instance, are difficult to affect significantly. Battle Creations Charm or whatever else I tell them to do nearly every time. I haven't been in any fights wth Fire Creations yet this chapter, but we shall see soon enough how readily they Charm and Daze. Part of the excitement is the smaller window for making mistakes with an Infiltrator. But she won't have many turns to make them, because she kills so effectively. -S- -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 8390
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written Wednesday, March 28 2007 02:15
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quote:That's what Augmentation, etc. are for, with some points in Endurance and Parry. I'm sending an Infiltrator through Torment, and Daze is my best friend. There's been a lot of Daze>Burning Spray>Firebolt>Repeat. Of course, I'll be forced to rely on more direct forms of battle once enemies become more resistant. Posts: 37 | Registered: Tuesday, March 27 2007 07:00 |