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Originally written by Alorael:

I'd like to see the scripture behind the arguments. I tried to find some for myself online and what I found wasn't convincing.

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5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved. 6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Isaiah 64

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And it continues. I get a sense that humans are less than nothing compared to God, but the entire passage is a lament mostly unrelated to the argument. It's also not about damnation or salvation, as the Old Testament tends not to address that issue so strongly.

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8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2

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This is the famous passage, but it's not clear. Again, it strikes me as a warning against pride because great accomplishments do not lead to salvation. Whether good works are "works" is, in my skeptical mind, debatable. The following verses are concerned with changes in practices, notably waiving the requirement of circumcision.

And then, to muddy everything further:

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Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Titus 3:5

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2:26

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The first of those is the first clear declaration that good works aren't necessary. It isn't specifically spelled out that faith saves rather than ritual, but at least the works are out. James then disagrees strongly: it may not be works alone that save, but they're a necessary component.

And two more:

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The sacrifice of the wicked [is] an abomination to the LORD but the prayer of the upright [is] his delight.
Proverbs 15:8

He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer [shall be] abomination. Proverbs 28:9

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Cited as signs that God rejects those who are not saved by faith. I don't really like judging this without translating the Hebrew, but doesn't "wicked" imply deeds rather than faith? Similarly, turning away from law is a comment on behavior, not thought. Proverbs is from the Old Testament, and thought-crime wasn't fashionable back then.

—Alorael, who will stop now and wait for someone to either argue or find better scripture denying the value of works and affirming salvation through faith.

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—Alorael, who will not accept Jesus into his heart until he sees a good, mathematically sound reason for him to do so.

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Daniel 9:24-26
"Seventy `sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.
"Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven `sevens,' and sixty-two `sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.
After the sixty-two `sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.

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Originally written by Mind:

Only few religious people believe the story of the Creation.

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vote for me if you hate sex!

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On the other hand, I beat the bishop on a daily basis.

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