Profile for Jewelz

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Displayed name	Jewelz
Member number	4784
Title	Infiltrator
Postcount	563
Homepage	http://www.geocities.com/tracihedlund/
Registered	Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00

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Hello to all! in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Friday, April 22 2005 05:22 Profile Homepage #27 Peanut, peanutbutter, JELLY. Peanut, peanutbutter, JELLY. I, of course, prefer my peanutbutter with honey, but welcome back anyways. -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
Avernum -v- Exile in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Friday, April 22 2005 05:09 Profile Homepage #25 Hello, hello. I would amend the rules if allowed to make number one "Read the CoC, Memorize the CoC, Live the CoC.", so that makes seven in all. (Are you getting all this down?) I love Exile, tried Avernum but hated the graphics and the katty-wumpus directional play. Will probably buy BoA eventually just for the scenarios of others but am content to wait till I've played all BoE scenarios first. -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Thursday, April 21 2005 15:02 Profile Homepage #291 quote: Originally written by Mind: quote: Originally written by Gizmo: Because despite some being advantaged, death is still sad for friends and family who did not wish them to pass yet. But despite this fact, you doubt that death disadvantages anyone? I never made that argument. [You] made the argument that no one was ever advantaged by a death. I said some are, not that all are. quote: Originally written by Mind: quote: Originally written by Gizmo: Re being spoiled by God: This discussion only shows the selfishness of human nature. Do we really want to have everything we desire? I mean, I know by deffinition we 'want' it but would this state of always having everything we desire really be fulfilling? Where's the sense of acomplishment? "Everything" includes sense of accomplishment. I don't think I'd feel like I'd acomplished anything if everything I wanted was handed to me on a silver platter. It's nice to be spoiled once in a while but if it's all the time, I'd think it'd get rather boring rather quickly. [ Thursday, April 21, 2005 15:03: Message edited by: Gizmo ] -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
99% of all Statistics are made up. in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Wednesday, April 20 2005 19:44 Profile Homepage #32 So... almost 1/3 of my total posts, I have put up this last month. I knew I'd been hanging out here too much. :P [ Wednesday, April 20, 2005 19:45: Message edited by: Gizmo ] -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Wednesday, April 20 2005 17:13 Profile Homepage #284 ADoS - you are correct that I never looked up the exact deffinition. quote: From here: 1 a : an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution b : a usurper of sovereignty 2 a : a ruler who exercises absolute power oppressively or brutally b : one resembling an oppressive ruler in the harsh use of authority or power God, as I understand him, would be an absolute ruler, unrestrained by law or constitution that his holiness didn't require anyway. He is sovereign. He would exercise absloute power and looking at the OT, he can be brutal but mostly only to his declared enemies. To his faithful subjects though, he will lavish love and mercy and reward. Those who decide to serve him have nothing to fear from his absolute power. And after the second coming there will be no more sin, therefore no more need for God to use his absolute power brutally. I think I understood the word enough to form my earlier statements. Mind - quote: It's striking how much of His own laws God breaks. God is not bound by his own laws. He has made the laws because some things he reserves the right to do himself. For example; judgment(condemning) and ending one's time on Earth (murder). He is the King who tells his subjects that there are certain things that they cannot do because he wants the final decision for it. quote: How much do God's children suffer before they finally die? It is different for everyone. I'd say just enough. (I have deleted much rambling that wasn't relevant to the question.) quote: Then why is a ceremonial burial so melancholic? Because despite some being advantaged, death is still sad for friends and family who did not wish them to pass yet. This is very elementary. Plus even with faith there is a quality of mystery in death that makes it a scary thing. Even knowing(believing) that someone will be waiting in Heaven for you doesn't negate the fact that you will still have to experience death before you can see them again. quote: Again, your using an argument which we proved to be invalid. My proof is meaningless to you, I hold little water for your 'proof' also. I will always maintain that God has integrity beyond any of our wildest dreams (or would that be most modest dreams) could ever hope of reaching. Hitler and Stalin were alike to God in authority style only, and even they will have to answer to him. Ben - Word of wisdom from someone with a bit of experience. Never be quick to judge anyone be it homosexual, murderer, terrorist, or any member of another faith. We do not have final say in anyone's destination, nor should we presume to know. Warn but do not condemn, there is always hope. If I have overstepped for anyone, I sincerely appologise. Re being spoiled by God: This discussion only shows the selfishness of human nature. Do we really want to have everything we desire? I mean, I know by deffinition we 'want' it but would this state of always having everything we desire really be fulfilling? Where's the sense of acomplishment? Aloreal - I know that the documentation of the Bible still leaves ample time for exaggeration. Thuryl's question was what makes the Bible different from everything else. I'm sure that much of the OT was passed on by story before it was ever written down but it is not hard for me to imagine that the original letters that make up most of the NT were still around to be copied from when our earliest copies are dated. The gospels themselves are meant to be compared with one another. Not everything agrees exactly and it shows how some people remember things differently but there is enough similarity to discern that they are talking about the same events and that they experienced these events. If it were really all a conspiracy I would expect them to be closer to word for word since they would have had to agree together on what to put into their books. [ Wednesday, April 20, 2005 17:14: Message edited by: Gizmo ] -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Wednesday, April 20 2005 17:08 Profile Homepage #283 EDIT: Sorry... I think it's the first time I've done that. I thought it was screwey that my edit magically put everything into quotes. :o [ Wednesday, April 20, 2005 19:48: Message edited by: Gizmo ] -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
good websites in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Wednesday, April 20 2005 14:43 Profile Homepage #15 hsx.com The Hollywood Stock Exchange is a fun game to play and a nice place to hang out. You can also get lots of info on all the movies coming out or planned for filming. Real time chat is nice, too. EDIT: if you decide to sign up it'd be awful nice of you to credit me for a referal... 'trhedlund' Edit again: Oh, yeah... Then there's also the best blog in the entire net... Sometimes known as WWdN He can sometimes have a bit of a potty mouth on him, but scroll down to April 13 for a great example of what it's all about. [ Wednesday, April 20, 2005 14:54: Message edited by: Gizmo ] -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
99% of all Statistics are made up. in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Wednesday, April 20 2005 14:35 Profile Homepage #22 Man, Thuryl... you've made more than twice as many posts in one month then I've made since I've been here! And I had been thinking I'd been here too much. -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Tuesday, April 19 2005 09:14 Profile Homepage #269 quote: Originally written by Thuryl: quote: I do not understand how people can pick and choose which parts of the Gospel they want to believe are real. It makes perfect sense if one sees the Bible as a historical document like any other, shaped by a large number of people with varying influence and intentions over a long period of time. Remember, the Gospels weren't actually put into writing by the disciples to which they're attributed; they're basically a series of traditions which were codified in written form only centuries later. Most myths are known to contain a mixture of historically verifiable aspects and utterly fantastic aspects; why should yours be any different? Because the Bible has unrivaled documentation. There are more than 24,000 partial and complete manuscript copies of the New Testament most available for inspection now. Norman Geisler makes several key observations for consideration: No other book is even a close second to the Bible on either the number or early dating of the copies. The average secular work from antiquity survives on only a handful of manuscripts; the New Testament boasts thousands. The average gap between the original composition and the earliest copy is over 1,000 years for other books. The New Testament, however, has a fragment within one generation from its original composition, whole books within about 100 years from the time of the autograph [original manuscript], most of the New Testament in less than 200 years, and the entire New Testament within 250 years from the date of its completion. The degree of accuracy of the copies is greater for the New Testament than for other books that can be compared. Most books do not survive with enough manuscripts that make comparison possible. From this documentary evidence, then, it is clear that the New Testament writings are superior to comparable ancient writings. "The records for the New Testament are vastly more abundant, clearly more ancient, and considerably more accurate in their text." In addition to the many thousands of New Testament manuscripts, there are over 86,000 quotations of the New Testament in the early church fathers. There are also New Testament quotations in thousands of early church Lectionaries (worship books). There are enough quotations from the early church fathers that even if we did not have a single copy of the Bible, scholars could still reconstruct all but 11 verses of the entire New Testament from material written within 150 to 200 years from the time of Christ. The Dead Sea Scrolls prove the accuracy of the transmission of the Old Testament. In fact, in these scrolls discovered at Qumran in 1947, we have Old Testament manuscripts that date about a thousand years earlier (150 B.C.) than the other Old Testament manuscripts then in our possession (which dated to A.D. 900). A full copy of the Book of Isaiah was discovered at Qumran. Even though the two copies of Isaiah discovered in Qumran Cave 1 near the Dead Sea in 1947 were a thousand years earlier than the oldest dated manuscript previously known (A.D. 980), they proved to be word for word identical with our standard Hebrew Bible in more than 95 percent of the text. The 5 percent of variation consisted chiefly of obvious slips of the pen and variations in spelling. The Dead Sea Scrolls prove that the copyists of biblical manuscripts took great care in going about their work. These copyists knew(believed) they were duplicating God's Word, so they went to incredible lengths to prevent error from creeping into their work. The scribes carefully counted every line, word, syllable, and letter to ensure accuracy. tAlo- I'm sorry, I don't understand how you get "God can't be perfect because he is perfect." from "God's particular tyranny is not tyrannical because God is perfect." Is it that I can't use a 'He is too!' to Mind's 'He is not!'? Then I say tyrany doesn't have to mean imperfect. Most forms of government (including communism) work on paper. The problems arise when the leaders become corrupt. I say that God cannot be corrupted, therefore he can be a perfect tyrant. RE:"Even if the Bible does contain the word of God, why isn't he lying to you? It may be for your own inexplicable good!" If it was God's intent to write a book of fiction for his creations to fight over, then he is cruel and sadistic, indeed! If it is so then I doubt it will matter much what we do with this life because with a cruel and sadistic tyrant, Heaven will be just as bad as Hell if either really exsists. So since that belief would make all life meaningless, I choose not to believe it and increase my faith instead in what brings hope, meaning, and purpose. [ Tuesday, April 19, 2005 09:57: Message edited by: Gizmo ] -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
Ahhh...School in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Monday, April 18 2005 13:15 Profile Homepage #11 Stay-at-home mother of four... school was still easier. I'd go back in a heartbeat! -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Saturday, April 16 2005 15:13 Profile Homepage #236 quote: Originally written by Max: So you are saying that a comepletely evil person who believes that by killing and destroying people that he is doing Jesus's and God's will will go to heaven? What a place to be if that guy is in [there]. Don't put words in my mouth(are you even talking to me 'cause I can't tell). TM does enough of that already. Ask your questions as questions, not as accusations. If they are truly evil then they are akin to pharasies whom Jesus rebuked. There is a difference between believing in God and actually submitting yourself to God. Jesus himself said that some who claim to be Christians will not go to Heaven because they did not 'know' him. Even the Devil believes... quote: Originally written by Max: Pope Urban II started the first and second crusades, the first one being where huge amounts and knights and muslims died, and in the second one they send children anywhere from 10-15 to die because the knights didn't want to do it. Does this man deserve to go to heaven? No one deserves to go to Heaven. It is only the acceptance of Jesus's sacrifice on our behalf that can save us. quote: Originally written by Max: Also, if all Christians feel the holy spirit and follow god, then why are their so many dissagreements? Why are their so many different churches? There are many reasons. The biggest being man is still fallible. Man is still corruptable. And man is still gullible. Some are not willing to change while others are too eager to do so. My faith comes first from the Bible, second from my experiences. Everything else is measured by that. Some Christians measure the Bible by their experiences. Some skip the Bible all-together and only use their experience. And some just believe what their told to believe. Have I answered to your satisfaction? quote: Originally written by Max: You say you only have to believe in god and Jesus to go to heaven. Accoording to some christians, gays go to hell. This is said in the bible. Explain how these two doctrines survive contact. Not belief because, as I said before, even the Devil believes. It is accepting Jesus as Saviour and the gift of salvation he brings. Christians disagree about homosexuality because of different fundamentals. Being 'gay', I believe, is the way you're born. Thus God created some people gay and it is independent of salvation. Others believe that being gay is just a decision you make (you can change your mind), thus why they believe that 'If you are gay, you will go to hell'. The Bible has been argued to be translated wrong and misintrepreted where homosexuality is of concern. While I will say that I believe all promiscuous sex to be a sin, whether homosexual or heterosexual, I will leave the wrongness of practicing a committed-for-life monogomous homosexual relationship to each Christian's personal conviction... and add that God loves every one of them and Jesus died for every one of them. quote: Originally written by ADoS: The same could be said of Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, or Mao Tse Tung. Yet these three people are usually regarded to be very evil people, despite what good all of them did for their countries. What makes God any different? They will never be, nor ever could be, considered holy or perfect. Man is fallible, man is corruptable, man cannot compare to God. tDolphin - Your beliefs are very interesting and make sense to a point. The biggest thing that keeps me from agreeing with you is how all of Jesus' Disciples claimed him to be the Messiah that was fortold by the scriptures and that Jesus himself said that he was the Messiah of the scriptures. Why would such an enlightened being lie about who he was to the very people he was closest to? Why would he tell them parables about hell, and say that those who don't believe in the gospel would be condemned? If what you say is true then either Jesus was one giant liar, or the disciples, who knew him best, were all giant liars. One liar is easier to believe in, but when that one taught against lying and practiced everything else he preached, it leads me to believe he wasn't lying. So that leaves all the disciples as liars, but I cannot think of one good reason for them to lie about Jesus and teach that he was the Messiah of the Bible when they all knew he wasn't. (They'd have to know he wasn't in order to make up the lies about him saying he was.) I do not understand how people can pick and choose which parts of the Gospel they want to believe are real. If anything is real, then it is all real. Otherwise nothing is real and there is no reason to believe any of it. [ Saturday, April 16, 2005 15:55: Message edited by: Gizmo ] -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Saturday, April 16 2005 13:13 Profile Homepage #231 quote: Originally written by Dolphin: 1. A truly evil being can truly love Jesus. This is due too the concept that the being doesn't believe what it is doing is wrong. That is to say the believe Jesus to be their lord and savior. On their deathbed they ask for forgiveness, and for the sake of argument lets say they mean it. This being has a place in heaven despite their life of cruel deeds? According to the Bible: Yes, this person will go to Heaven just like the theif on the cross next to Jesus. It does not matter how bad you have been in your lifetime, if you accept Jesus before the end you will be welcomed by him with open arms. You will still be judged for all your earthly deeds though, there are many different levels of reward in Heaven. quote: Originally written by Dolphin: 2. A being that lives their life by all the laws of the bible, and for the sake of argument sins very little in its lifetime. This being believes Jesus lived and did many great things. Perhaps they believe Jesus was an enlightened being, so Jesus was able heal through the core energy of God Essence. However they do not believe Jesus was the literal son of God, or shall I say is God's child as much as any of us are. Upon that beings death will they receive the punishment of being born into hell despite their life of incredible compassion? Again according to the Bible: If this person heard the gospel of Jesus, (that he is God's son, lived a sinless life, died on the cross to be the final sacrifice for all man's sins, rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven, and grants us salvation by believing on him) but they reject it as false, they will not go to Heaven. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. You can never be 'good enough' to get yourself into Heaven. Only Jesus was good enough and only acceptance of his offer to cover your debt by the price he already paid is enough. The Bible doesn't go into detail about those who have not heard the gospel and I have already given my speculation on that. I have had a new thought though. More speculation on my part. Since there are said to be different levels of reward in Heaven according to ones deeds, maybe there are different levels of punishment in Hell according to ones deeds. It would make sense but I have nothing to back it up. There are very few details given about hell. But even if levels of hell exsist it all really doesn't matter much because no matter what level you get, hell will be terrible, just like no matter what level you get, heaven will be wonderful. A side thought, Dolphin. Would being #2 be a general description of yourself, or at least akin to how you picture God and Jesus? quote: Originally written by Mind: In other words: You have no sensical explanation.* Aside from sensical not being a word... It makes sense to me. I very often have a physical tingling sensation when I worship, pray, read the Bible, and write stuff like this. I have felt it over and over and over. I cannot, by my own power, replicate the feeling, but it has been replicated so often that I cannot scientifically deny the connection. I do A, B happens. Again and again and again. Cause and effect. I cannot show it to you but it is proof to me. quote: Originally written by Mind: The inquisitors did not know the will of their God. You do not either. I know as much as He tells me. And he tells me to love you and all like you so I will. smothers with love quote: Originally written by Mind: Your God is and remains silent. He does not speak to you, and did not speak to the writers of the Bible. Now it is you who presumes to know the will of God. Or is this just you saying 'There is no God. He does not talk.'? quote: Originally written by Mind: Which proves that He is a tyrant. As I said, your God is said to be responsible for every event in the universe. Of course, you possibly do not strictly believe every aspect of your religion. If that is the case, your God is simply negligent. A perfect and holy tyrant, who is worthy of being praised. Those who submit to his authority though would never consider him a tyrant. A tyrant from the outside looking in. A glorious, welcoming king from the inside looking out. quote: Originally written by Mind: No, but a father who murders his innocent child is certainly cruel. [If]God exsists, then so does an afterlife. Any innocent who lived on the earth would be swept away to this afterlife, thus they are not really dead. And other than children and mentally handicapped, there are no innocents. quote: Originally written by Mind: *You said: "God may not* always intervene", meaning that He cannot. I 'may' have meant it that way and I 'may not' have. There are more than one way to use the phrase. In the above example I meant it as the same deffinition as 'might'. quote: Originally written by Mind: You are repeating the same argument. Because it still applies. What good is being capable of compassion if we never learn to use it? It is a desireable quality in one's character. One God wishes us to develop. quote: Originally written by Mind: Your God does not interact with you, in any way. You are simply speaking to yourself. [If] God doesn't exsist then you are right. [If] God does exsist then you are wrong. I have my own proof... what is yours? quote: Originally written by Mind: Terri Schiavo died decennia ago. Possibly, but it does not change all the lives her death has 'advantaged'. quote: Originally written by Mind: No, but only because I do not believe in God. This is also a cop out. You formed your comment to me on the basis that God does exsist, and I formed my question of you on the basis that God does exsist. Please form your answer on the basis that God exsists. [ Saturday, April 16, 2005 15:12: Message edited by: Gizmo ] -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00**
Favorite Author in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Saturday, April 16 2005 10:59 Profile Homepage #66 I'll go in chronological order of authors I've enjoyed enough to remember their names without going back to look. C.S. Lewis with the Chronicles of Narnia - My first real enthusiasticly read series. Stephen King - don't ask me why cause I really don't know. I started collecting his books when I was around 14 and I've only been brave enough to read four of them. The rest have just sat on a shelf collecting dust in the meantime. Piers Anthony with the Xanth series - he's still turning out books for this one and I'm still reading them. I have an almost complete set. J. R. R. Tolkein - (which I've always pronounced TOLL-kin) I read The Hobbit before Narnia and enjoyed it enough to buy the LotR series (like seven years ago) but I didn't start reading them until after the movies came out and I did not watch the movies until all were available on video. Brian Jacques for the Redwall series - It was just by chance that I started to read one of his books, but I enjoyed it enough to start in on the whole series. I also really enjoy the 'Left Behind' series which I've read most of but with two authors my mind just can't remember their names off hand. Other classic authors come to mind; Charles Dickens, Anthony Trollope, Herman Melville, Henry David Thoreau ,Shakespeare... but reading their works always takes such concentration on my part that some of the joy of reading is drained by it. I'm just asking for it ain't I? -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Friday, April 15 2005 09:24 Profile Homepage #224 In response to Mind. quote:Originally written by Gizmo: Because the Bible tells me to and I believe that the Bible is divinely inspired. Do you have any explanation for this conviction? Yes. The Lord has and continues to reveal himself to me. The most convincing is the physical feeling I get when I worship Him. The 'filling of the Holy Spirit' as it is called in the Bible. I cannot deny this feeling and that I get it mostly in direct correlation with times of prayer and worship leads me to connect the two. Other 'touches' have led me to feel warned or encouraged when warning or encouraging was needed. Other things most skeptics would toss away as coincidence and say that I only see it as God because I am looking for God, but I will provide more examples if you wish. quote:Originally written by Gizmo: These verses not only tell me that I can know God's will (at least in part), but also that I should seek God's will by asking him to reveal it to me. No one knows the entirety of his will but it is easy enough for us to know snippets of it as he reveals it to us. The inquisitors believed to know the cruel will of God: Genocide, torment and suffering. The inquisitors did not practice the love taught by Jesus. They became proud when Jesus had told them to be humble. They are akin to the pharasies that Jesus rebuked. What matters most is your heart, the inquisitors did not believe this. quote:Originally written by Gizmo: That child will never suffer again, will never hunger again, will never thirst again, will never be cold or sick or alone ever again because s/he has a place prepared for him/her in Heaven. You cannot fathom death. Claiming to know wether or not there is a postmortem realm with complete indubitableness is very haughty. The suffering of the dead has probably ceased, indeed. We do not need to empathize them, but those who are currently suffering on this world. I can fathom death as far as my beliefs allow, as far as the Bible explains it to me. You claim it to be haughty to believe on the Word of God as written in the Bible. Just because you are not certain doesn't mean I cannot be. I have already told you what personal proof I have for my indubitableness. If I am wrong... I'll never know the difference anyway so I choose to live for the purposes I have found in Christ. There is great peace in knowing your purpose. quote:Originally written by Gizmo: "Is this not what happens to us with God? He throws some pretty scary stuff at us, and it’s hard to believe He has our best interests at heart. He may even be telling us to fly down, but we don’t hear Him, so He brings something into our lives that forces us down, and only then do we find that down was the way out." This contradicts that God is omnipotent, which is very paradoxal. quote:god n 1: the supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship in monotheistic religions [syn: God, Supreme Being] I do not see a contradiction. I only see that God chooses most times to use other than miraculous events to guide us where we need to go. Again, why must God always use his omnipotent power for immediately beneficial results for you to admit that he has said power? God has his own free will and may use whatever means he chooses to teach our resistant minds. quote:Originally written by Gizmo: You cannot be 'forced' to follow God, it is always your choice to do so. The inquisitors did not share your opinion. The inquisitors were able to force people to 'say' they followed God, but they could not change anyone's heart. It is possible to lie about following God. quote:Originally written by Gizmo: As for your illistration of Job I would say that God is just in taking away what Job had because He had given it to him in the first place. You illustrate God as a very conservative and egocentric Shaper, creating, tormenting and absorbing its creations. Would that be deffinition one or deffinition three of egocentric?. If it is deffinition one I agree with you, three not so much. Tormenting is such a harsh sounding word, how about distress? I rather think that he doesn't necessarily do the tormenting, he just allows it to happen to us. Never-the-less we should be willing to be tormented if it is what we need to be made more like Christ. Not saying we'll like it, but we should be willing to endure. And I don't know where you get absorbing from. You'll have to expound on that one. I would also add to the list... but it'd be a loong list. quote:Originally written by Gizmo: That "Suffering happens to the good, and god lets it happen" does not make him any less powerful. The suffering happening to us proves that either God is not omnipotent or is very cruel and sadistic. So a parent who allows their rebellious teen to spend the night in jail is sadistic and cruel? Or also one who allows for a painful medical procedure so that the child can get better? These skate below omnipotence but there is a connection. Our souls would not be able to develop the character God desires in us if we didn't go through these sufferings. God wants us to learn compassion, we cannot learn compassion if there is no one to have compassion on. What you call cruel, I call logical. quote:Originally written by Gizmo: God may not intervene all the time but that does not mean he doesn't intervene at all. This statement also contradicts that God is omnipotent. I ask if you think being omnipotent means you have to use your power. Because that it itself is a paradox. If you are all-powerful no one can make you use your power and you can choose never to use it if you like. It doesn't mean you don't have it. quote:Originally written by Gizmo: God allows for pain in the world so we can learn. Why must we learn? If he is so powerful, he can simply write the information in our minds. I think he can and does write informaiton in our minds, it's caled our conscious and instincts. We don't always recognize thoughts as coming from him and sometimes he waits for us to ask for wisdom. There is also the freewill issue. Just giving everyone all knowledge would bypass our decisions and make us boring drones. By withholding knowledge and making us learn our integrity is revealed and our character is cultivated. quote:Originally written by Gizmo: And if God gave every hungry person a meal to eat every time they were hungry how would we be able to exercise our generosity, sympathy, and hospitality? It would simply no longer be necessary. Yes, and it would not be learned. Originally written by Gizmo: Because I asked God to give me wisdom and He told me to study. Greetings, God. I am not God. Just a humble servant. How you can get that I am(or claim to be) God from that statement is beyond me. quote:Originally written by Gizmo: He gave us at least five. But those are based on the Bible so I will not list them here. Can I convince you to do so? Since you asked yes. The five basic purposes outlined in the Bible are Worship, Fellowship, Discipleship, Ministry, and Evangelism. All purposes are meant to be carried out in balance. I will expound on each if you ask. quote:Originally written by Gizmo: Despite that I said nothing of the sort... Everything we have is God's. We are borrowing it from him. He can take it back at any time because it is his. You call it teasing, I call it simple property rights. God, according to your religion, gave us our lives. By ending our lives, he greatly disadvantages us, but does not advantage anyone. How do you know that no one is advantaged? Will none be advantaged by Terri Shivo's death? Will none gain compassion for the helpless? Will none sit down to write a living will so that their family can avoid a similar heartache? Will none choose to act for a betterment of the world because of her? I say all have already been done and her death was not in vain. quote:Originally written by The Inquisitor: God's justice is ultimately measured by rewards for the faithful and punishment for the unfaithful both in the afterlife. Assuming that the idea that being unfaithful is wrong is not nonsensical, should He not be punished for creating unfaithful persons? Everyone had the ability to be faithful, everyone had the choice to be so. True he knows what we will choose because he knows the future, but he also knows all the lives that will be affected by our exsistance in the world however short. quote:Originally written by The Inquisitor: Why is it a sin for God not to act? He is responsible for every event in the universe. So you decide to go on a murder spree and kill ten people for whatever reason that you deemed worth doing so and then you blame God for the deaths because he created you and knew you would do it before he put you on the earth? Sounds almost like the same 'The Devil made me do it!' cop out to me. It is often said that everyone must take responsibility for their own actions. God's action was to create you even in the knowledge that you would be a murderer. Your actions were to murder ten people. So is God really responsible? I can understand your argument that it is and on the flipside as a Christian say that God has already taken responsibility. Christ lived a life without sin then died an excruciating death for attonement of our sins. One needs only to accept said attonement to give up the responsiblity for the penalty of their sins. In response to Dolphin: I am not looking for confirmation, I expect confirmation. What I find is as of yet unknown. Just like you expect not to be swayed by any religous argument here but who can really tell how it will affect you? This is a contradiction. If you are expecting it than you are looking for it. If your opinions are set in stone you are very unlikely to see what you don't want to see. As for my religious views I am not a Christian, but I have never denied the existence of a deity. Please understand there are other views on what God is, and I grew up with Catholics. I know their doctrine very well and disagree with it. It is hypocritical to say the least. You are correct. I worded it wrong. I can expect to win a game but come out in the end finding I have lost. I can expect a present on my Birthday from family and friends, but it does not guarantee that I will get one. I may be looking for confirmation of my faith but I still don't know what I will find. I am open to gaining insight, what I am not willing to do is give up Christ because of the personal proof I already have. Because I asked God to give me wisdom and He told me to study. Just knowing the mechanics of other faiths will help me. But as I said before, I already have personal proof that tells me I'm already on the right track. I am curious if this is intuition [or] do you have tangible proof? My proof is only tangible to me as I cannot just give you a filling of the Holy Spirit and you only have my testimony that it is true. The realization to study actually came more from my being immersed in questions over at desperance that I had never thought about before. The only way I can answer some of those questions is to study. I say 'God told me to study' because I would have no desire to do so if I had not asked him for wisdom in the first place. All holy books teach different perspectives on God and life. Most of them contradict each other to some degree. It is interesting that you would be open to learning about the beliefs of others, as you sound like you are already certain of what reality truly is. You never did answer why the Bible and Christianity are correct above all others. It would be cruel to have no purpose as we are instinctually driven to find one. Not to claim all, but most people spend their lives trying to find their puzzle piece, what they are meant to be doing. To put us here without even the slightest intention of a place of being is slightly frustrating. Aah, another question that for the answer I must study. I must know what is in all other holy books to be able to give a qualitative answer. Why I believe so before I begin study is again because of my 'personal proof'. I agree that as humans, we are driven to find a purpose. It is one small reason why I believe in a God at all. If there was no God, thus no purpose to life, I would not expect us to want one so badly. There are countless drug addicts who love Jesus, and believe it or not they still use drugs. For one thing not all of them feel it to be wrong, and second they may feel God will forgive them due to their love of Jesus. And, I've little doubt they will be forgiven. There could be a few exceptions. The Bible claims that in order to be forgiven by God you must also forgive those who sin against you, and there is an issue of repentance. If someone continues to commit what they know is a sin without regret or remorse thinking only that Jesus will forgive them because they 'say' they love him, I would question the validity of that love. Genuine love for Jesus leads to genuine change in ones life, actions, and perspective of thinking. quote: Despite that I said nothing of the sort... Everything we have is God's. We are borrowing it from him. He can take it back at any time because it is his. You call it teasing, I call it simple property rights. This is the root of Christen philosophy; God is all and you are nothing. Is it not possible that God loves its creations enough to view us as part of it, and not [possessions]? It is possible only if the Bible is not true, thus why I argue the other way. quote: God's justice is ultimately measured by rewards for the faithful and punishment for the unfaithful both in the afterlife. Please elaborate on this. Does this apply to those who have never heard of God as you see it. Do Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, and natives go to hell for their different faith? I will grab an answer I gave over at desperance that explains my personal beliefs on this. The Bible does not specifically say. So... "I don't know. Do you wish me to speculate? For a brief time believed that reincarnation was a feasible idea since any who had not heard of Christ could just be reincarnated until they had that chance. There is nothing in the Bible to support this and there is some that is argued to counter it. But what I really think is this. You can know for sure, right now if you're going to Heaven or not by believing Jesus is God's son, asking Him for forgiveness of your sins, and giving your life to Him. If you do this there is no doubt, you will be judged and every hidden sin revealed, but you already claim the gift Jesus has given. If you have never heard of Jesus in your lifetime you will be judged and have to give an account of your life. Then and there Jesus will decide whether to show you mercy or not based on mostly character. [and also your faithfulness in serving 'a' god thinking you were serving the correct god] If you have heard of Jesus and have rejected Him, He will also reject you. So I guess if I really believe this, what I have to ask myself is do I really want to tell others about Jesus and risk that they will reject Him for the benefit of those who will accept Him and have the security of Heaven?" I also think that if you have any doubt that you are serving the right God/in the right way and do not make any effort to find the answer, your lack of action will also be judged. Someone else has aready said that on judgment day, those who have never heard may have the chance there to accept his grace but I rather think that after death everything is left in the Lord's hands. In response to Maxmillion: Do you believe that the people who are challenging you should go to hell. Because according to you can only go to heaven if you believe in Jesus. Do you believe that disbelief is a big enough crime to merit eternal punisment. Also, you say that the bible is literally true and that all of it is correct. In one passage, women who wear pants should be stoned to death. So tell me, do you often go to jail because of your throwing rocks at women on the street? I'm not sure if you meant me or Ben but I will answer like you meant me. I neither want nor think my challengers should to go to hell. They are all sinners the same as me, they are all on the same journey of life as me. The difference between us is that I found the answer and I want to share it with the rest. I do not expect a warm welcome or a fond farewell, I only plant seeds in the hope that someday they will sprout. Look to my previous answer for who I think will get into heaven. Re eternal punishment: I do not like the idea of eternal punishment any more than you but I can neither change God's choice of punishment or fathom his reason for such punishment. Still I trust God is just in the punishments he chooses. Another quote from desp. "I choose to believe in hell becaues the bible says it exsists, but I will make this concession. If the idea of hell hampers your desire to worship God then don't believe in it. In the end it won't matter if you believe in Hell or not. What we believe won't change what is. What will matter is if you chose to worship God. Whether or not hell exsists, I still believe that those who choose not to worship God will not go to heaven." I do not say that the Bible is litterally true, just divinely inspired. Jesus himself spoke in parables which he had to explain to his disciples. There are many other parts of the Bible I consider metaphoric instead of literal. Revelation for one. So for women who are to be stoned for wearing pants, I look to the reason for the rule. It was a cultural appropriateness for a woman to wear a dress. A woman who wore pants was most likely trying to pretend to be a man. So if a woman was caught pretending to be a man they were to be stoned for their deception. These days, American culture at least has no qualm with women wearing pants and a woman who wears pants is most likely trying to be comfortable, not pretending to be a man. Since there is no inherent deception in wearing pants, it is not a sin (in our culture) to do so. All scriptures need to be studies to see what was really being punished not just the examples of what merrited said punishment. [ Friday, April 15, 2005 09:34: Message edited by: Gizmo ] -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Wednesday, April 13 2005 11:23 Profile Homepage #216 quote: Originally written by Dolphin: quote: Originally written by Gizmo: I expect only to confirm what I already believe. If I find otherwise, I'll be sure to let you know. Why would you learn anything new when you are only looking for confirmation? I am not looking for confirmation, I expect confirmation. What I find is as of yet unknown. Just like you expect not to be swayed by any religous argument here but who can really tell how it will affect you? quote: Originally written by i: Why bother?* Because I asked God to give me wisdom and He told me to study. Just knowing the mechanics of other faiths will help me. But as I said before, I already have personal proof that tells me I'm already on the right track. tTM - I can always count on you. Many of your questions I have already answered but I will answer them again since you ask again. quote: "Because the Bible tells me to and I believe that the Bible is divinely inspired." Way to dodge the subject. If you assume an Abrahamic god, then it is patently easy to argue for its texts. The abortion topic was locked for such patently cyclical logic, and I'm not sure how this topic is any different. (This is, incidentally, why scripture has no real bearing on me- I'm an atheist, and using your book is a damnedly poor way to advocate anything.) The 'book' is the essence of my beliefs. It is the reason people believe in a hell (which is the subject of the topic) Without it this topic would not exsist therefore it should be valid for use in this topic. You can disagree with me all you want, but telling me I can't even use my beliefs in my arguments crosses the line. quote: That's a very convenient excuse to dismiss the fact that said child has been robbed of a fulfiling life here on earth- You live in middle class suburbia, well-fed, using a computer. This blatant lack of pity for the mind-bogglingly destitute is testament to the fact of christianity's former role as a guardian of classism. (Now it's been overtaken by the undiluted free market, but that's neither here nor there.) Would said child have a fulfilling life here on earth? Not everyone does. I will have compassion for them as long as they live, I do what I am able to ease their sufferings but once they have already passed I can only be glad that they no longer have any pain. quote: Let me put it this way, then- god put us here for us to learn to love him, correct? That doesn't go very far to explain child abductions, infant suffocations, et cetera. Wouldn't a loving god who wanted all human beings to be graced with the opportunity to love him allow said vulnerable peoples to live? (Of course, therein lies a paradox of free will that basically demands Kushner's resolution, but nevertheless.) And if god placed us here without a purpose, then he's a cruel and spiteful bastard. Again this is the question, 'Why does God allow bad things to happen to good people?' Only this time it is innocent people. All previous answers still apply. God did give us a purpose in life, He gave us at least five. But those are based on the Bible so I will not list them here. I will look at it in theoretical terms for your sake. [If} there is a God who has created us, then we [have] to have been made for a purpose. Even if it is only for his own sadistic pleasure to watch us fight over him. Since a purpose [has] to exsist [if] God exsists then it is up to us to discern what that purpose is. What resources exsist for us to discern this purpose? All holy books. Are all holy books true? No, they cannot be because some are exclusionary. Which are true? It is up to us to find out, thus why I plan to study them all. [If] God does not exsist then we [cannot] have a purpose because we are created by random chance and evolution. [If] we do not have a purpose, why do we want to find one? You yourself said that it would be cruel and sadistic to creat us without a purpose. Why if you believe we have no purpose anyway? Why is it cruel not to have a purpose? quote: That story is cute- it also assumes that god's ministry is perfect, which is patently false. Stating that "all things bring people closer to god" is a very conventient argument, which is a pattern with you, I find. What brings people closer to god when they are comitting murder? (And what about the person whose life was destroyed to facilitate this "assistance"? Or do only saved people who don't need it get shot?) So far, all that this world has been bringing all of us towards more prevalent consumerism and the bigotry that it gives us as baggage. And if god's ultimate goal is ruined lives, twisted sexuality, hypocrisy and murder, then she's doing a very good job. I would say all things 'can' bring people closer to God. But it is always their choice. The hummingbird, once free, still did not understand that the guy with the broom was trying to help it, it will be even more afraid because it was hurt by the 'monster'. There are still those who do not realize or refuse to realize that the hand of God is working in their lives. They run from it, they refuse to believe it because they are unwilling to entertain the notion that those crazy fanatical fundamentalists just might be right. And refusing to believe themselves wrong they wander through life trying to find an alternate purpose for their lives since they have turned their back on their real purpose. quote: TM stuffs words into Gizmo's mouth "And if you choose to follow God 'only' because you want the rewards of Heaven (or to escape hell) it is at least a first step towards Christlikeness." So it's christlike to paint crosses on shields before going into battle so god can beat the crap out of your enemies, or make you rich? God is a candy dispenser at that point- the relationship becomes an exploitative one. Constantine, for example, wrote the Edict of Milan and converted Rome into a christian state. On the other hand, he declared himself god, continued to practice greco-romanism pantheon paganism, and was a ruthless leader like any previous one. I'm not sure how god's giving him victory aided his development in christ- the christian movement was gaining popularity in the lower class and would have spread anyway. The First Step does not encompass the whole. It is better for a drug addict to submit to Christ then to stop doing drugs. Once submitted he must continue to submit as the realization of what he is doing is wrong comes to him. Growth is a process and spiritual growth doesn't happen over night. Neiter do I expect God to make me rich for doing his service. I expect him to do for me whatever it takes for me to learn what I need to know. Those who don't want to learn miss out on the opportunities that God gives them. (Of course you're not sure how god's giving him victory aided Constantine's development in christ. Neither do you know how many others were affected or how many would have not been affected if it didn't happen as it did. Neither do I. Just because we don't understand how God's hand has worked to shape every life doesn't give us reason to deny he exsists or that he never intervenes.) quote: TM stuffs words into Gizmo's mouth... again: "As for your illistration of Job I would say that God is just in taking away what Job had because He had given it to him in the first place." So you're telling me that god is a kinky dominatrix tease. Thanks for the info. Despite that I said nothing of the sort... Everything we have is God's. We are borrowing it from him. He can take it back at any time because it is his. You call it teasing, I call it simple property rights. quote: TM... still stuffing "God is also just by what he gave Job after he proved himself to be a faithful servant. Much more then what he had started with." So god's justice is ultimately measured in material wealth, and Job is fine with losing his family at that point? Now I'm not only questioning this spiteful deity, but its followers as well. God's justice is ultimately measured by rewards for the faithful and punishment for the unfaithful both in the afterlife. The words of Job about his family and wealth being taken away from him. Job 1:20,21 "At this, Job got up and tore his robe and shaved his head. Then he fell to the ground in worship and said: Naked I came from my mother's womb and naked I will depart. The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away; may the name of the Lord be praised." He was fine with it before he was rewarded. It does not say what he felt after being rewarded but I can only conclude that he was at peace with his previous loss. quote: "That 'Suffering happens to the good, and god lets it happen' does not make him any less powerful." That's a sin via inaction. Or is god allowed to be a hypocrite? Why is it a sin for God not to act? What is sin? If God exsists then sin is what God says is sin. If God doesn't exsist then there is no such thing as sin. So which commandment has God broken by allowing the good to suffer? quote: "Sure, He could stop it but in doing so he would stop the growth of our character which cannot be tested, tried, or proven to be true without adversity." I agree 100%; this is basic free will doctrine. Which doesn't go far to explain why you just argued for divine intervention. Because God can and does do both. You seem to want all or nothing and will be satisfied with nothing less. The idea that God exercises his own free will to choose when to help and when not to help seems to upset you. Can't you be satisfied that God (if he exsists) knows what trials and encouragements his creations need to be prepared for the eternal home and tasks he has for them? If he doesn't exsist why even bother with me? Why waste what precious little life you have on earth arguing with a crazy fanatic like me who you have little to no chance of getting to agree with you. quote: "Even with all the tests possible done and available for review, it would still not be enough." Thanks for making the coda to your argument an insult! Have fun living on cloud nine. No, seriously- ignorance is bliss; it's no wonder I'm so irritated. It is only an insult if you take it for one. You can only be offended by what you allow to offend you. My meaning is that no matter how much evidence there is those who do not want to believe in miracles will not. You do not believe in God, therefore you do not believe in miracles and all the evidence I pile up in front of you will not change your mind if you do not want it to be changed. tMind - I will address you at a later time. [ Wednesday, April 13, 2005 11:24: Message edited by: Gizmo ] -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Tuesday, April 12 2005 18:01 Profile Homepage #209 I do analyze my belief system. For a more thurough look at part of my analization look at Back from Brainwash City in desp (beware... it is a harsh country). The reasons why I believe the Bible is true are numerous. They start with what the Bible says itself and continue with personal experience, study, meditation, and prayer. Plus there's the filling of the Holy Spirit that reassures me time and time again. I have made a commitment to study all other holy books but with the personal proof I have for myself (which I can only testify to so it doesn't hold much water with you) I expect only to confirm what I already believe. If I find otherwise, I'll be sure to let you know. Re starving children: If they are children, they are innocent and do not have the understanding needed to make a decision about God, same with the mentally disabled. I go extensively into my thoughts on this at desp. (if you can find them, it turned into quite a long post) And if God gave every hungry person a meal to eat every time they were hungry how would we be able to exercise our generosity, sympathy, and hospitality? God allows for pain in the world so we can learn. Again, without adversity our character cannot grow. -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Tuesday, April 12 2005 10:43 Profile Homepage #205 I wasn't gone that long was I? quote: Originally written by i: How dare you presume the will of God. Don't you think its rather arrogant to conjecture on the wants and desires of an almighty Creator that no one can truly understand?* Because the Bible tells me to and I believe that the Bible is divinely inspired. Romans 12:2 "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is - His good, pleasing and perfect will." “If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him” (James 1:5). “Be still before the Lord and wait patiently for Him…” (Psalm 37:7). “…Show me the way I should go, for to You I lift up my soul” (Psalm 143:8) “Guide me in Your truth and teach me…” (Psalm 25:5) These verses not only tell me that I can know God's will (at least in part), but also that I should seek God's will by asking him to reveal it to me. No one knows the entirety of his will but it is easy enough for us to know snippets of it as he reveals it to us. quote: Originally written by Alec: The big question to those who believe in an active God is this: why would the Almighty help you find your keys, recover from a flu, or enjoy a happy marriage when there are people in this world who are more or less innocent and are starving to death almost entirely because of the country into which they were born? There seems to be an obvious clash of priorities there. Because God is a personal God who will deal with people on an individual basis. Perhaps realizing that God is willing to help you with such a trivial task as finding your keys leads you to be grateful, so grateful that you decide to devote your life to foreign missions. So you move to a third world country where thousands of children starve to death every day and minister to them as you are able and you change their lives in doing so. I do not mourn very much for the child who starves to death. Let me tell you why before you call me heartless. That child will never suffer again, will never hunger again, will never thirst again, will never be cold or sick or alone ever again because s/he has a place prepared for him/her in Heaven. The table is already set with the feast they will now enjoy that they did not get to enjoy in life. quote: Originally written by imho: i can admite that god is an almighty creator, though it sounds strange, but it is conceptualizable. my problem resides in understanding how is it possible that no one, or if you want, mankind can't understand God's ways. if something makes sense, we should be able to understand it. and since our world can actually be studied by science, it must make some sense. therefore, if we can understand our world, why can't we understand its creator. i mean if we are able to explain how His creation works, why can't we figure out how he thinks? I have a very nice illistration written by John Fischer about this. "I had a hummingbird trapped in my dining room today. I cranked the windows wide open and waited for the bird to fly out but nothing doing. I even tried to shoo it out waving my arms but that didn’t work either. The problem was, every time the bird would try and fly, its instincts told it to fly upwards, so it would skate all over the ceiling, buzzing its wings furiously against it, chirping all the way until it would tire and come to rest on the curtain over the window or the light fixture. I left it alone for a while to see if it would eventually discover the open windows, but each time it took off to fly, it flew upwards and skated on the ceiling like before. It was frustrating — almost tragic — to watch it sit over the open window, catching its breath, oblivious to the fact that freedom lay only a few inches below. I finally succeeded in freeing it by literally sweeping the hummingbird off the ceiling with a broom. It took a number of tries, and it hit the window on the way out, but it flew off unharmed. All the while I was doing this, I was trying to imagine what it would be like if I were that bird. I am aware that I am trapped, and I am trying to free myself the only way I know how, when this very large figure comes after me. I have absolutely no way of knowing that this giant thing, swatting at me with a broom, wants what is best for me; indeed, he is the only one who can set me free. And then this creature sweeps me off the ceiling and slams me into this invisible barrier, and it is only then, in my attempt to recover from that trauma, that I find I am suddenly free. Is this not what happens to us with God? He throws some pretty scary stuff at us, and it’s hard to believe He has our best interests at heart. He may even be telling us to fly down, but we don’t hear Him, so He brings something into our lives that forces us down, and only then do we find that down was the way out. What we have that the bird doesn’t have is a word from God that He is in control. Everything happening to us is happening for a purpose and we will see it someday, but in the meantime, it is for us to trust, and take what He sends our way as coming from His hand." In another illistration similar to this, a farmer want's to show a flock of birds how to fly into his barn to stay warm on a freezing night but the birds are afraid of him and don't understand him. The farmer wishes he could turn into a bird so he can show them the way. In the same way Jesus was God born as man to show us the way to live. quote: Originally written by TM: if you are forced or bribed to follow God, then are you really choosing voluntarily to love him with all of your heart and so-forth? You cannot be 'forced' to follow God, it is always your choice to do so. And if you choose to follow God 'only' because you want the rewards of Heaven (or to escape hell) it is at least a first step towards Christlikeness. If you 'really' follow God, you will discover on your journey that there are better reasons to follow him. As for your illistration of Job I would say that God is just in taking away what Job had because He had given it to him in the first place. Even Job exclaimed 'The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away!' God is also just by what he gave Job after he proved himself to be a faithful servant. Much more then what he had started with. Since we are all God's creation and all we have is his also he is just in taking that which was already his. That "Suffering happens to the good, and god lets it happen" does not make him any less powerful. Sure, He could stop it but in doing so he would stop the growth of our character which cannot be tested, tried, or proven to be true without adversity. [quote} Originally written by Alorael: I'm not so sure why we assume free will, though, since an omnisicient and omnipotent God would make much more sense in a clockwork universe.[/quote] I have addressed a similar question elsewhere. "God wants everyone to choose to worship him. He does not want us to worship him because we have to or because it is the only thing we are capable of. He wants us to worship him because we 'want' to worship him. Having a servant who chooses to stay with you when he is free not to, is immesureably better then having a slave who only serves you because he has no other choice." "If he wanted drones he would have created them, instead he gave us free will which tells me he wants us to choose, but he wants us to choose him." For the previous question, I answer no. God may not intervene all the time but that does not mean he doesn't intervene at all. And while most miracles have only testimony as proof, it does not make all of those miracles false. A final verse for thought. Luke 16:31 (Jesus speaking a parable.) "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'" Even with all the tests possible done and available for review, it would still not be enough. -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
TrueSite for Blades under construction in Blades of Exile
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Sunday, April 10 2005 12:53 Profile Homepage #0 Hubby and I have come to an understanding and I'm getting rid of gmail sniffs I love gmail. :( Anyways, since I have to edit my e-mail address on every. single. page. sigh of the website I'm gonna do some housekeeping while I'm at it and make all the pages look nicer. It'll take me a while to edit all the pages so alot of the 'Contact Me' buttons won't work for a while. The way to tell if it'll work is if the bar at the bottom of the page includes links to the list of utilities and list of downloads. That means I've change it. Else you can just click on the link in my sig here v. -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
Sony Patents "real" Matrix in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Friday, April 8 2005 17:17 Profile Homepage #1 That sounds very interesting but I would not want to be the guinie pig they test it on. Would you mind shortening your displayed link name? It stretches the page. -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Friday, April 8 2005 17:14 Profile Homepage #143 quote: Originally written by Maxmillion: What I've noticed is that in the bible, as time progresses and records go from nonexistent to reliable, he shows up less and less. He talked to Adam and Eve in person. He later showed his back to someone. Then he talked through a bush to Moses. Come to think of it, he's talking through another Bush. My point is that the later it gets and the more able we are to prove historical things, the less God sees someone phyisicaly Moses was also the one to see God's back when he was given the ten commandments. God also spoke to Noah, Abraham, and Jesus. I would argue again that God still talks to people but the occurances are less publicised then the Bible. Today he speaks mostly through the Holy Spirit in our thoughts instead of using an audible voice. Why? For one, the Spirit wasn't yet on the earth in the OT and not until Jesus' death. Maybe he prefers to talk in thoughts. It adds an effort of faith on the believers part to do something they are told to do when they didn't hear the actual words. I watch Joan of Arcadia from time to time and think to myself how easy it would be if that was really how God talked. All I'd have to do is wait for my next assignment. Instead I have to search him out and ask for an assignment. This way is better I think because I have to want to serve God and I have a happy heart to do so. -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Thursday, April 7 2005 05:30 Profile Homepage #133 quote: Originally written by Wise Man: So if God exists/ed, then he was the split second that is the Big Bang? See you'e thinking in terms of time. Split second, billion years, eternity, all are concepts of time. God exsists outside of time therefore has always exsisted and will always exsist. And if there was a big bang it happened somewhere on the timeline when God already exsisted. quote: Originally written by Alec: Mass Hysteria Sometimes, people just want to believe. Whether or not what they believe is right doesn't seem to matter; they just want to be convinced that it's true. While your statement is correct, your example of mass hysteria is flawed. Some miracles might fit the peramaters of mass hysteria but most are very specific, very personal answers to prayer. A large brain tumor exsists on a medical x-ray one day and completely vanishes the next while all the displaced brain tissue is comletely restored. That isn't hysteria in a crowd, it's between patient and doctor and the x-ray as proof. They didn't just 'believe' the tumor was gone. It really was gone. Modern science says it was impossible but it happened anyway. -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
What Movies Are You Looking Forward To? in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Thursday, April 7 2005 04:54 Profile Homepage #16 x-Men 3. That is all. -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
So I'm gone. in Blades of Exile
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Thursday, April 7 2005 04:41 Profile Homepage #3 I have all the scenarios/utilities made on my harddrive. I count 280 in all. Have you played all 280? Go through the list at the CSR or alphabetically in my walkthrough database. [ Thursday, April 07, 2005 04:46: Message edited by: Gizmo ] -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Wednesday, April 6 2005 17:32 Profile Homepage #128 quote: God came from nowhere because there was nowhere for Him to come from. And coming from nowhere, He stood on nothing because there was nowhere for Him to stand. And standing on nothing, He reached out where there was nothing to reach, caught something when there was nothing to catch, and hung something on nothing and told it to stay there! - Dr. Shadrack Meshack Lockridge Just a cute quote I like. Many who believe in God, believe that he always exsisted. I like to think of it this way: Before God, time did not exsist therefore there was nothing 'before' God. When God exsisted, God created time and therefore has exsisted since the beginning and will exsist forever. It is difficult to understand an exsistance without time not just being able to go back and forth in time but exsisting for all of time. He created time but does not neccessarily exsist in time, and exsisting outside of time he is aware of all events in all of time. It all sounds very si-fi movieish. God still does show his power and his exsistance. The miracles of the Bible are still happening today, they just don't get the publicity that the Bible does. Go ahead, do a google search on 'miracles today'. You'll find story after story of miracles witnessed by real people. Are some of these stories fake? Maybe. You'll probably believe them just as much as you believe the Bible whether they are actually true or not. Either we're all crazy or we've actually found something. Here's someplace to start looking. Miracles [ Wednesday, April 06, 2005 17:39: Message edited by: Gizmo ] -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
Well it's been a while. in General
Jewelz Infiltrator Member # 4784	written Sunday, April 3 2005 19:25 Profile Homepage #10 Drew Carey(does he count as a comedian?), Jeff Foxworthy (when he isn't swearing), and Louie Anderson (but only cause I got to meet him and shake his hand and stuff) are my favorite funnie guys. -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00

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