Do you think there is a Hell?
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, March 29 2005 12:24
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And statistics indicate that whichever religion you follow is probably wrong anyway. Is it really worth it to go through all the ceremonial rigamarole when it's all probably a waste of time? Fortunately, many deities/powers/systems won't damn you for all eternity just because you picked the wrong type of worship. —Alorael, who will not accept Jesus into his heart until he sees a good, mathematically sound reason for him to do so. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 5219
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written Tuesday, March 29 2005 13:47
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Nononono. Can't there be as many gods as you want? I guess you can have "imaginary" heaven if that'd make you feel better. Or hell. whatever your sick desires wanted. :( -------------------- You can take my Windows XP when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 394 | Registered: Saturday, November 20 2004 08:00 |
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Master
Member # 1046
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written Tuesday, March 29 2005 13:55
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Can I be my own imaginary god?=( I can't believe somebody actually got trolled by Ben. -------------------- Polaris - Weather balloons, ninjas, and your big daddy Wise Man. What more could you want? Undead Theories - Don't Ask, Don't Tell Posts: 3323 | Registered: Thursday, April 25 2002 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 4614
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written Tuesday, March 29 2005 17:20
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No, I wasn't joking with you guys, and as far as I know, nobody else is messing with my account. Keep ranting. Also, there's something called faith. [ Tuesday, March 29, 2005 17:24: Message edited by: ben2 ] -------------------- -ben4808 For those who love to spam: CSM Forums RIFQ Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5550
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written Tuesday, March 29 2005 19:17
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I hate people who say, "convert or burn. Of course we're right. The bible says so. The bible was made by god. How do we know? The bible says so. Well, **** you to. -------------------- Most Important Questions: Why does one sock go missing? What is the purpose of meaning? What is the purpose of girls? What happened to the other one? Posts: 154 | Registered: Saturday, February 26 2005 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 5542
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written Tuesday, March 29 2005 19:26
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I don't believe in Hell, because it's just something a culture slowly invented as they embelished their own religion. Posts: 30 | Registered: Thursday, February 24 2005 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4414
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written Tuesday, March 29 2005 20:06
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Ben isn't trolling. As a Christian myself, I think I should inform you that "hey, by the way, you're going to Hell if you don't accept Jesus" is a statement made in the hope of securing a better afterlife for the person spoken to. Christians try to convert people because they care about them (and please think before you dispute that statement). Think about it...there really isn't any other reason to. It's not like we get coupons from God saying "congratulations, you have converted 1,990 people. Only 10 more, and you will receive a new car!" No. There's nothing in it for us whatsoever, and we talk about Jesus because we believe in him. Just because you don't doesn't mean you have to be a jerk about it. It's just the same as if I came up to you and said, "hey, smoking cigarettes will kill you." You are free to say "I don't believe you," and continue smoking cigarettes. If I come up to you and say, "accept Jesus and you'll get to Heaven," you could just as easily say, "no thanks, I don't believe you." If someone tries to convert you, and you don't want to be, this is how to react. Be polite in your refusal. Don't accuse them of trolling or of harassing you. Christians who try to convert people are doing a brave thing. Why would I open my mouth and say something to someone who doesn't want to hear it, thinks my feelings are ridiculous, and will likely react with complete hatred and disgust? Why would anyone do that? Because we believe it's the right thing to do. We care about others and want them to spend eternity in a good place. So next time some random Christian tries to tell you about Jesus, if you aren't inclined to listen, then just be polite or ignore him. Don't act like he's committing a capitol offense against you. Just think, "hm, whatever," and move on. Be aware that Christians are human too. We are individuals. Just because someone mentions Jesus does not mean they ascribe to all the other "whacko religious-nut" stereotypes. Like me, for example. I believe Jesus has saved my soul. I also listen to heavy metal and live with another girl (yes, I mean that the way you think I do). I have very good reasons to believe what I do, but that doesn't mean other Christians want me calling myself one. For all I know, Ben might be disgusted that a foul creature like me is defending him (I'm fairly sure he believes I'm damned for that whole bi-thing). I will answer any questions about this, as well as anything else anyone cares to ask me, as long as you ask in a civil manner. Yes, we may be talking about religion, but try to resist the knee-jerk hackle-rising that takes over every time someone challenges your beliefs, mmmkay? -------------------- AIM/Yahoo IM: Cavanoskus Scary artwork and Bad Poetry The Wildlife Research Team SnakeNetMetalRadio "We, who are about to die, salute you." Posts: 86 | Registered: Friday, May 21 2004 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4784
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written Tuesday, March 29 2005 20:08
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Trying to keep this civil and strictly from an analitical standpoint. quote:Define 'mathematically sound'. Would a whole bunch of fulfilled prophesies be mathematically sound? How about a prophesy based on events on a timeline that actually happened? quote:1. After the Medo-Persians had conquered the neo-Babylonian empire about 2500 years ago, they ruled a vast empire that included the land of Israel. About 2400 years ago (about 445 BC), Persian king Artaxerxes gave permission to the Jews to rebuild Jerusalem, which was still in ruins after having been destroyed earlier by the Babylonians. 2. The Jews rebuilt the Temple and the city of Jerusalem. 3. Then, about 2000 years ago, Jesus entered Jerusalem as the Messiah who had been promised by Old Testament prophets. But, many people rejected Jesus as the Messiah and He was crucified by the Romans. 4. About 40 years after Jesus was crucified, the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple. (The Temple has not been rebuilt since then and they have been constantly at war). It is interesting to note that the decree to rebuild Jerusalem is estimated given at 445BC and that the 7(7's)+62(7's) is equal to 476. Not far off considering the date is an estimation. Take into account that 33 of those years are not counted in the 'BC' dating and the number is now at 443. It is not exact mathematics but when the exact dates are unknown I would consider it close enough to count, imho. -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 | Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5550
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written Tuesday, March 29 2005 20:20
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There is something in it for Christians though. It helps create a sense of security and affirmation of their beliefs by a subconcious thought if "I must be right, so many other people believe it." Just like oftentimes the person is telling the smoker to stop because of the smell, not out of concern for the smoker. Also, I am not that into a religon that says "believe or burn." It sounds a whole lot like propaganda to me. I am not disputing god or Jesus. I have problems with organized religon which seems to have a tendancy to be self serving and needing of affirmation, by say, converting, or puting evolution out of text books. -------------------- Most Important Questions: Why does one sock go missing? What is the purpose of meaning? What is the purpose of girls? What happened to the other one? Posts: 154 | Registered: Saturday, February 26 2005 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 5437
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written Tuesday, March 29 2005 20:30
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quote:Most people who smoke would most likely not want you to tell them it's bad for them. They obviously want to smoke anyways. As for this whole love Jesus or go to hell. What does that say about every other religion? Christians are very well know throughout history for imposing their religion on others. quote:I don't think hatred is the issue for most people. I have had people lecture me until I walked away because they just wouldn't stop telling me how their faith is right and mine wrong. I would say as long as you are a good person and help people you would go to your idea of heaven. There are more paths than such a strict rigid system. quote:I think people take this attitude because it's all love and good times until someone disagrees. After that there tends to be an attitude of pity for not yet aware no-believers. -------------------- Nena Posts: 2032 | Registered: Wednesday, January 26 2005 08:00 |
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Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
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written Tuesday, March 29 2005 21:58
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quote:Another? In all seriousness, I disagree with your assertion that there's no benefit to converting people to Christianity except saving people from Hell. I've been doing it mostly towards creating a better world. True, I may not end up with the hosannas and hallelujahs you might by converting someone to worship of a big ego figure, but the difference is that I can genuinely convert people to my way of thinking, instead of just flipping a flag on someone who wants desperately to believe in something. I think, and I might be wrong, that I'm making the world a better place that way, and that's what people ought to do. But there I go with the tolerance and the heresy again. An interesting thought: if I believed Hell was a factor, I wouldn't be converting anyone. Eternal punishment doesn't jive with me for whatever reason. [ Tuesday, March 29, 2005 22:02: Message edited by: Bad-Ass Mother Custer ] -------------------- The biggest, the baddest, and the fattest. Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Tuesday, March 29 2005 22:04
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I don't think that was her point, Alec. She seemed to be saying that when you convert someone you're doing it for them rather than you. ("You" as in "one", that is.) -------------------- My BoE Page Bandwagons are fun! Roots Hunted! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Wednesday, March 30 2005 15:47
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"Convert or you will burn in hell!" takes a definite tone. "Convert and you will go to Heaven!" takes a very different one. Common courtesy, if nothing else, would make the latter a better choice, and I believe common advertising practice agrees. "It's for your own good" is a good excuse to give to people under the age of six. I'd like a better reason to convert than circular arguments and prophecies and the carrot-and-stick routine. (Note how many prophecies are in the Old and New Testaments, how many are accurate, and how many require a great deal of stretching to be termed so. Cryptic restrospective prophecy isn't meaningful.) Let's say I become Christian. Are the Catholics right? Maybe the Episcopalians? The Society of Friends, the Lutherans, or the "whack-job" cults that crop up regularly? I've still never seen a good reason for the strange editing of the Old Testament largely accepted by Christian sects. No, this argument can't get anywhere. Religious arguments never do, probably because you can't argue with faith or lack thereof. —Alorael, who will conclude by agreeing with Alec. Religion does not make you a good person and good people are not always religious. A little bit more recognition of that would do far more for the help of others that Christ advocated. How often did Jesus threaten hellfire and how often did he perform miracles? Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Master
Member # 4614
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written Wednesday, March 30 2005 16:34
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Seeing as the topic was about hell and not heaven, I was using my first statement mostly as an answer to the question at hand, since, if the starter of this topic wasn't unsure about the validity of hell, he wouldn't have come to us for our opinions (or, maybe he was trying to increase his post count too, you never know, but still). Sure, there's no absolute mathematical proof for the existance of God, but there's also no mathematical proof for what the universe is and how it works. If we can't prove that, how can we mathematically prove God, or disprove it, for that matter? When you go out on a clear night and look at the stars, there's little doubt that there must have been a supreme being to create all of it. No mortal anything could possibly be capable of creating a universe so vast and diverse as our own. Therefore it makes little since to worship some prophet that supposed lived a long time ago such as Mohammed or Buddha. You should worship the true God. Which one? The true God. God. That's why he doesn't have an absolute name. He has many names he goes by, but one thing is important: realizing that he is the true God that you're worshipping. Of course, Jesus came to Earth as a man, but he was sent by God to pay for the sins of people so we could go to heaven instead of everyone going to hell if they hadn't offered appropriate sacrifices. If you accept Jesus, you will go to heaven! -------------------- -ben4808 For those who love to spam: CSM Forums RIFQ Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5619
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written Wednesday, March 30 2005 16:44
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In my opinion You all will find out if there is heaven or hell as soon as you pass away. -------------------- If you fail to plan, you plan to fail. Posts: 90 | Registered: Wednesday, March 23 2005 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2104
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written Wednesday, March 30 2005 16:53
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Yes/Christian. While I agree the whole statement "Accept Jesus and you'll go to heaven," I think it only applies to actual Christians, the whole Christian afterlife could be wrong, and the aforementioned statement only applies to actual Christians. And that what Ben is doing is stupid, and judging from the diversity of these forums, should have never opened his mouth. [ Wednesday, March 30, 2005 16:55: Message edited by: I'VEGOTALOVELYBUNCHOFCOCONUTS ] -------------------- —Zxquez Zolohahni I eat blueberries in pie square. Xerch'de/Rate. I miss you, but I haven't met you yet. So special, but it hasn't happened yet. Posts: 549 | Registered: Thursday, October 17 2002 07:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 5219
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written Wednesday, March 30 2005 17:11
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What about the concept of chosts? I guess those are the ones *heaven or hell doesn't accept*. -------------------- You can take my Windows XP when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 394 | Registered: Saturday, November 20 2004 08:00 |
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Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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written Wednesday, March 30 2005 18:38
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Ben should also realize that Muslims don't actually worship Mohammed any more than Jews worship Moses. Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2476
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written Wednesday, March 30 2005 18:53
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Maybe we could agree that throughout the ages there have been great teachers of mankind, Buddha, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed among them. -------------------- Polaris Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 3364
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written Wednesday, March 30 2005 18:54
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I don't think what Ben is doing is stupid. His religion says to go out into all the world and preach the gospel. That the people who frequent this board are diverse should only give him more incentive to do so. I wonder why so many people get offended by being preached at. (and why some Christians get offended when other Christians start to preach) Conversations about most things on this board are usually civil, but mention Jesus and oh, no. You've crossed the line. I was actually impressed by ben's last post. It was the first post I have seen from him that had any real substance. A big step up from his normal spammy self. (No offense Ben) :P -------------------- "Even the worst Terror from Hell can be transformed to a testimony from Heaven!" - Rev. David Wood 6\23\05 "Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as you ever can." - John Wesley Posts: 1001 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Wednesday, March 30 2005 19:19
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quote:Oh, but my God is better than your god! That is the only bit that I'm annoyed by. Religious advertisement is not an "intrusion" to me, nor am I annoyed by the motivation behind it. I am only annoyed by the naive doggedness in repeating the same words over and over. And by the assumptions someone appear to make about my intelligence when he or she brings up unfounded or circular arguments to support it. Christianity has many good things going for it, that set it apart from several other religions. Peace, love, offer the other cheek, feed the poor, etc. Why not mention that instead? ((Of course, Buddhism has that too, and Islam apparently as well, to say nothing of many other religions. But I wouldn't fault anyone for bringing it up; fundamentally, all brands of washing powder fulfill the same purpose, only some do it better than others. Advertisers are not required to say: "Any other product of this kind is built to fulfill the same function.")) But I expect to be convinced, not persuaded. That means someone will have to tell me the pros and the cons of their faith, and how it works in practice, considering the community that practices it. Not by repeating over and over, "my God is good and all others are bad, and you will go to Hell if you believe otherwise." If I find myself wanting to join that community, then I am as good as converted. If I find myself mentally stopping my ears and wishing that "the damn preacher should just go away", I'm not and will likely never be. I don't fault a preacher for determination, but if they can do better, then it is dishonest of him not to do so, and my conscience would not allow me to honestly believe him. If he can't, well, then perhaps his religion wasn't all that cool in the first place. Don't blame him for trying, but I don't feel bad when I tell him to try somewhere else. [ Wednesday, March 30, 2005 19:24: Message edited by: Air run, say tore. ] -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2104
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written Wednesday, March 30 2005 19:28
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I don't get offended, I just say it's a stupid thing to do with so many non-Christians that aren't going to change their views because of one person. When you give me definite proof that Christianity is the "true" religion (and hell, I'll admit, it'd be nice if that was true), I'll go ahead and resign my point, but from what I've read, you don't have it. I've never heard of the Christian religion saying we have to "preach the gospel" (although, I know that if you're a Jehova's Witness you have to). Does it really? It's just something that confused me. -------------------- —Zxquez Zolohahni I eat blueberries in pie square. Xerch'de/Rate. I miss you, but I haven't met you yet. So special, but it hasn't happened yet. Posts: 549 | Registered: Thursday, October 17 2002 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5268
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written Wednesday, March 30 2005 19:41
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Dear Millicent, Matthew 28:18-20 "[18] Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. [19] Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, [20] and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." Posts: 148 | Registered: Tuesday, December 7 2004 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 5437
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written Wednesday, March 30 2005 19:41
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Ben's first post was… quote:That is not spreading the good word of his faith. It is saying it is the only right faith. Didn't Jesus teach expectance? -------------------- Nena Posts: 2032 | Registered: Wednesday, January 26 2005 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5268
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written Wednesday, March 30 2005 20:00
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quote:No, it's perfectly consistent. Jesus said "No one comes to the Father except by me" and "I am the way, the truth and the life". One may agree or disagree with those statements, but Jesus most certainly did not say that it doesn't matter who you believe in. Jesus was willing to accept anyone as a follower. He did not say that people who did not follow him would go to heaven anyway. Posts: 148 | Registered: Tuesday, December 7 2004 08:00 |
