Do you think there is a Hell?

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AuthorTopic: Do you think there is a Hell?
Shaper
Member # 5437
Profile #301
I would say God would be lonely alone, but than again a perfect being should be content with its own company.

Does the bible say specifically if animals go to heaven?

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Nena
Posts: 2032 | Registered: Wednesday, January 26 2005 08:00
Shaper
Member # 73
Profile #302
It says they don't have souls, therefore they don't go to Heaven.

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Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
...b10010b...
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quote:
Originally written by The Almighty Doer of Stuff:

It says they don't have souls, therefore they don't go to Heaven.
I don't doubt it takes that general tone, but can you actually quote a chapter and verse where it says as much in those words?

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Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4214
Profile #304
quote:
Originally written by The Almighty Doer of Stuff:

It says they don't have souls, therefore they don't go to Heaven.
Of course, animals are capable of controlling their bodies without cerebral cortex.

To avoid potential confusion, I will add that this statement was sarcastic.

[ Saturday, April 23, 2005 05:40: Message edited by: Mind ]
Posts: 356 | Registered: Tuesday, April 6 2004 07:00
Agent
Member # 3364
Profile Homepage #305
quote:
Originally written by Maxmillion:

Why does God need us if he's perfect. If he was perfect he'd be happy without us.
He may not need us but perhaps he still wanted us.

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Posts: 1001 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00
Shaper
Member # 5437
Profile #306
quote:
Originally written by The Almighty Doer of Stuff:

It says they don't have souls, therefore they don't go to Heaven.
If animals don't have souls, than what in us is our soul? What thoughts, feelings, or behaviors define a soul or lack of?

Is either of these things specifically spoken of in the bible?

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Nena
Posts: 2032 | Registered: Wednesday, January 26 2005 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #307
quote:
Originally written by Jewels of the Forest:

quote:
Originally written by Maxmillion:

Why does God need us if he's perfect. If he was perfect he'd be happy without us.
He may not need us but perhaps he still wanted us.

Same diff'. "Wants" are rooted in needs. I don't NEED a quarter-pounder w/cheese but I DO need food and WANT a QP w/cheese!

A "perfect" entity can want for nothing. PArt of being "perfect" is that you already have everything you could want.

On a related note, I often encounter theists who believe that God has emotional states and such(anger, joy, sense of humor etc.) and yet allegedly has no physical 'body'/brain. THis is terribly problematic for such theists because things like "sense of humor" and emotional states are rooted in the physiological. If we did not have the bodies we have, with the neural systems, spinal cords, brains adn the experiences we have as a result of being bipedal/hominid beings, we would NOT have a "sense of humor"(as we currently define/understand the term) or emotions or even such "wants" as companionship(especially not HUMAN companionship! Sorry to burst human bubbles here.) and the like.

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Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #308
quote:
Originally written by Dolphin:

quote:
Originally written by The Almighty Doer of Stuff:

It says they don't have souls, therefore they don't go to Heaven.
If animals don't have souls, than what in us is our soul? What thoughts, feelings, or behaviors define a soul or lack of?

Is either of these things specifically spoken of in the bible?

In actuality(and this will shock some Abrahamic theists) the Bible does not mention any such thing as a "soul" at all, by ANY translation! THe ancient Hebrews literally believed that a person's "spirit"(for lack of a better word) was located in the kidneys and I believe the Hebrew word for "breath"(as in "Breath of life") is the same word as that for "kidney".

Later Christians and jews placed this "spirit" in the heart(or sometimes the brain) but as yet there is absolutely NOTHING that infers the existence of a "soul" or "spirit" ANYWHERE.

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Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 4267
Profile Homepage #309
Heaven and Hell are very real places, and jesus was the key to reaching either one... and no I'm not a christian.

There might be some intelligent force orchestrating everything. If there is it's my personal beleif that its the universe itself. A changing entity of such vast dimensions, all of the peices communicating with one another structurally and quantumly has to have developed some sembalance of awareness; even if it is primitive mathematical sub-sentience. So there isn't nessicarily the need for some humanoid, omnipotent creature with an attitude and alot of groundless malice for random people on this single, small planet. [Yes, I beleive in other planets with life, I'm a reincarnationist, and im not the reincarnation of a human, hence my furryness.]

What I ment by the aforementioned statement is that Heaven and Hell exist, they're states of mind and states of being. Both of which are attainable... the states of mind with such "names" are reached through introspection of your own deeds, motives, and inner morals [not the ones some "leader" tells you you're supposed to have.] You can make the world around you, at least in your perception, a horrible or wonderful place. The physical states of heaven and hell are easily reachable as well, they're caused by the relative harmony or disharmony of all the sentient beings on this planet as a whole.

As for the jesus part, I don't think he was some metaphysical savior, sent from a god, that people made in their own image. He was a kind of activator, an evolved human, without all of the psychotic tendancies the normal kind have, and possibly alot more mental and "emotional" power. His entire goal, from what I've read wasn't so much to tell people to praise him so that they would goto the "Kingdom of God" when they died.. it was to create such a place on the still living earth, by following his teachings and examples of cooperation and peace. [Jesus was a peacenick, hippy Commy; and I love him for it.] Unfortunately humanity killed him, and has ever since been spiralling downward into increasing hatred and self destruction, instead of following a very good example and cooperating peacefully as a whole.

He brough harmony and heaven, at the small price of a little bit of selflessness and self sacrifice, you threw it all away in order to maintain something that I don't really see as important, the ego, and traded it all for an ever increasing hell of your own creation.

[ Saturday, April 23, 2005 11:13: Message edited by: Ezrah, Kitty of Wonder ^.^ ]

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Posts: 50 | Registered: Thursday, April 15 2004 07:00
Master
Member # 4614
Profile Homepage #310
You soul is simply the essence of everything that remains of you when you die and move on into the afterlife, so you could say your spirit, since then you will lose your physical body to rot to dust while your spiritual body lives on.

Mind, your quote of my post about wealth didn't contain the paragraph after you quoted, which explained that because you're rich doesn't mean you're ungodly and are going to hell. But you also must realize that people like Bill Gates do give away huge amounts of money, but they still remain the rich people they always were. Remember the story about the widow who gave two small coins into the offering, but it was all she had. She therefore gave more to God than someone who gave a lot of money, but still kept most of it for themselves.

Why God created us is a thing I usually just attribute to another ununderstandable attribute of God. But like I said, I think the longing for companionship was a big contributor. He created us in his own image and with the same general characteristics, but we're not supernatural and confined to a world with three spacial demensions. He made us masters over all the animals and gave us the ability, through Jesus dying on the cross, to not just meet all our deserved destruction for all our sins. Jesus has the power to forgive those sins and help us meet the sinless requirements of heaven.

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Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00
Shaper
Member # 5437
Profile #311
quote:
Originally written by 1001011001000:

You soul is simply the essence of everything that remains of you when you die and move on into the afterlife, so you could say your spirit, since then you will lose your physical body to rot to dust while your spiritual body lives on.
This doesn't explain anything at all. What I asked was…

1. Do animals go to heaven or hell?

2. Do Christians believe animals have souls?

3. If animals don't have souls, what are the differences between our spirits and theirs?

4. If animals don't have souls, does that put them on the same level as plants in God's eyes?

5. What about us is our soul? Is it our thoughts, or feelings, or what?

Biblical quotes would be interesting if anyone knows of any.

[ Saturday, April 23, 2005 18:24: Message edited by: Dolphin ]

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Nena
Posts: 2032 | Registered: Wednesday, January 26 2005 08:00
Warrior
Member # 5550
Profile Homepage #312
If god were were perfect, he'd be happy without companionship. Also, why make us flawed so that we needed to be saved? Some say that god is benevolent and just. I just had a Sadr, where the 10th plauge was described, which was killing all Egyptian first born sons. They had nothing to do with the fact of Jewish enslavement. If god were just, he would have punished the Pharoh.

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Posts: 154 | Registered: Saturday, February 26 2005 08:00
Warrior
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Profile Homepage #313
Just to warn you befoe you start slicing at me: I am an athiest (I respect all religeions but follow none)

ok, that out of the way...

why are so mant religeous people so devoted to their religeon?
just want to know...

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Posts: 179 | Registered: Tuesday, November 18 2003 08:00
...b10010b...
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quote:
Originally written by Tbg10101:

Just to warn you befoe you start slicing at me: I am an athiest (I respect all religeions but follow none)

ok, that out of the way...

why are so mant religeous people so devoted to their religeon?
just want to know...

Well, you know, the fear of getting set on fire and not put out is a surprisingly powerful incentive.

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Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5566
Profile #315
quote:
Originally written by Get a ((Half-Life)x2), you nerd.:

Ben: Do people who've never heard of god go to heaven?

(sorry, I just couldn't resist, seeing ben's responses.)

it depends on if given the choice what your answer would have bin i mean in truth

quote:
Originally written by *i:

quote:
Originally written by Dolphin:

Hmm, so help me understand this concept. As long as you except Jesus as your lord and savior you can do what ever you want good or bad? If Jesus died for our sins than you can sin and still go to heaven right? So you can do every bad thing you can think of, and as long as you ask Jesus to forgive you on you deathbed you are sent to heaven?
Or what about peopel who've never heard of Jesus? Are they instantly absolved?

What about infants and young children that are too young to know to believe? At what age does it matter?

quote:
What about infants and young children that are too young to know to believe?
they go to heaven

quote:
At what age does it matter?
when you turn 13 if you die and said no you go to hell 13 is the line once your there you can no longer claim ignorance its up to you now

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Posts: 507 | Registered: Tuesday, March 1 2005 08:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #316
quote:
Originally written by hawk king:

quote:
Originally written by Get a ((Half-Life)x2), you nerd.:

Ben: Do people who've never heard of god go to heaven?

(sorry, I just couldn't resist, seeing ben's responses.)

it depends on if given the choice what your answer would have bin i mean in truth

quote:
Originally written by *i:

quote:
Originally written by Dolphin:

Hmm, so help me understand this concept. As long as you except Jesus as your lord and savior you can do what ever you want good or bad? If Jesus died for our sins than you can sin and still go to heaven right? So you can do every bad thing you can think of, and as long as you ask Jesus to forgive you on you deathbed you are sent to heaven?
Or what about peopel who've never heard of Jesus? Are they instantly absolved?

What about infants and young children that are too young to know to believe? At what age does it matter?

quote:
What about infants and young children that are too young to know to believe?
they go to heaven

quote:
At what age does it matter?
when you turn 13 if you die and said no you go to hell 13 is the line once your there you can no longer claim ignorance its up to you now

Son, are you legally retarded?

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Shaper
Member # 5437
Profile #317
quote:
Originally written by hawk king:

when you turn 13 if you die and said no you go to hell 13 is the line once your there you can no longer claim ignorance its up to you now
Does the bible say 13 or do you? Times change, and people mature much slower now than they did 2000 years ago. What about people who are mentally incompetent, or are very dumb? Do they get special consideration?

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Nena
Posts: 2032 | Registered: Wednesday, January 26 2005 08:00
...b10010b...
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I suspect his figure is based in the Jewish tradition of adulthood beginning at 13. If it's in the Bible at all it's squirreled away in the Old Testament somewhere.

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[ Monday, April 25, 2005 19:05: Message edited by: hawk king ]

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Posts: 507 | Registered: Tuesday, March 1 2005 08:00
Shaper
Member # 5437
Profile #320
I don't resent God. I dislike Christianity and Catholicism because they are hypocritical and no body who is guided by those faiths can answer my questions. They all have faith in something they barely understand. Why fallow a God you don't know and can't comprehend?

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Nena
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Hawk King, I think we can all agree that the death of an 8-year-old would be a small, small price to pay in exchange for you never being born.

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Law Bringer
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Maybe it's for the best. That eight-year-old might have thrown a rock that through an unlikely chain of events killed another child who would have grown up into another Shotts.

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Electric Sheep One
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Profile #323
Neither I nor anyone else on the planet comprehends how quantum mechanics and general relativity can be reconciled, but evidently they are, and the universe rests on that union. Hence no God that I could comprehend could possibly be responsible for the universe. It is belief in a comprehensible God that would make no sense.

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Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Warrior
Member # 5550
Profile Homepage #324
The universe may be eventuely comprehensible. You assume god never will. That is the difference between facts and faith. And no one has answered my question.

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Posts: 154 | Registered: Saturday, February 26 2005 08:00
Master
Member # 4614
Profile Homepage #325
quote:
Originally written by Dolphin:

quote:
Originally written by 1001011001000:

You soul is simply the essence of everything that remains of you when you die and move on into the afterlife, so you could say your spirit, since then you will lose your physical body to rot to dust while your spiritual body lives on.
This doesn't explain anything at all. What I asked was…

1. Do animals go to heaven or hell?

2. Do Christians believe animals have souls?

3. If animals don't have souls, what are the differences between our spirits and theirs?

4. If animals don't have souls, does that put them on the same level as plants in God's eyes?

5. What about us is our soul? Is it our thoughts, or feelings, or what?

Biblical quotes would be interesting if anyone knows of any.

1. I am of the disposition of no. It all depends on whether animals have a soul, and I just don't think they do. Humans are the ones that are created in God's own image and are the only species capable of advanced reasoning and in my opinion, even starting to capture the concept of a God.

2. I think some Christians do, but as I said I don't. It's mostly just a matter of opinion.

3. I usually call a spirit of a living thing a synonym for a soul. So I don't think animals even have spirits. Have you heard any stories about spirits of animals (and I mean animals, not werewolves or similar legendary specimens)? I'm sure you have heard about human "ghosts" however, which I think can be real as afterlife souls pay a visit to earth.

4. Pretty much.

5. Our interaction with God and the supernatural before and after death. Your soul is what goes to heaven or hell.

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-ben4808

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