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Message From Spiderweb - Brain Blocked in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #89
First of all, why are people suggesting something STRONGER than divine warrior? It seems to me this is an unlikely choice for mid-level mage spell, considering the original divine warrior (7 levels higher than cap soul or simulacrum) was taken out because it was overpowered.
Second, Vampiric drain sounds like a really cool idea. After all, priests have some damaging spells that are nearly as good as their arcane equivalents, why shouldn't magi have at least something to heal themselves? How about dispel replaces capture soul, and vamp drain or the aforementioned curse spell replaces simulacrum.
Third, I'd like to revamp (the pun, sorry as it is, was intended) the dispel idea:
#targets=1+bonus/some number
L1: a very little unblockable damage, remove haste, bless and shield, # target cap 1
L2: minor unblockable damage, remove haste, bless, shield, martyr's shield and magic resist, # cap 3
L3: unblockable damage, remove all positive status, # cap 5
The damage would probably be about a quarter to a third of the same level bolt of fire. Though of course none of this is set in stone. If Jeff decides to use this spell, he would of course decide the effects, since he's the one making the game. Apologies for my long windedness, thank you, and good night.
EDIT: mana burn would be a cool idea if only the PCs could cast it. As it is, it would utterly ruin most parties if overused by enemies. If you don't believe me, go back and fight some mung demons. And they do nowhere near as much MP damage as this spell might. Also, it occurs to me: there seem to be more good ideas for spells than there are slots to fill. Might it be possible to raise the number of mage and priest spells to 21? Maybe instate Vampiric drain, Dispel and Poison as mage spells, and either holy ravage or divine warrior as the 'New' priest spell?

[ Saturday, November 16, 2002 12:14: Message edited by: modnaR ]

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
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I will host BoA graphics in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #28
You think so? I've never had any trouble with Apple/Clarisworks. Though not packing much in the bells and whistles department, it's a good, solid program, and beats the pants off MS paint.

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
What about $$$? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #6
Starcraft? What does starcraft have to do with it? Were you being sarcastic? Or just off topic? Am I overusing question marks(?)

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
BLOODTHIRSTY ME in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #11
You could make a monster drop a corpse in BoE. In the special properties sub-screen (where you dictated stuff like special abilities, breath and poison), there was a 'drop item on death' field where you could input the item number and the % chance of dropping it. Just create an item called 'carcass' or whatever, and put that item in the aforementioned field at 100%.

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
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If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Message From Spiderweb - Brain Blocked in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #83
Agreed. In fact, it's good to keep in mind that simulacrum was almost never used by monsters (except maybe vahnatai in A3, I can't remember) and capture soul was indeed never used. So just about any new spell included will make the game tougher. So, as was said, 'Freeze Time' would not work. Also, keep in mind that even if it wasn't so abusable by monsters, it's still probably going to be a level 9 spell. We're not looking for the next divine warrior here. Though would it kill Jeff to bring back beast ceremony? He could weaken it if he liked. It would still be better than forcecage.

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Should it be made at all? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #42
This being a forum on games that have relatively bad graphics and the gamers who love them, and indeed a discussion on the stupidity of those who don't love them, I feel I must include a caveat.
I don't think there's anything wrong with top of the line graphics in a game. I really enjoy neverwinter nights, and I like console RPGs as well. There's nothing wrong with a few bells and whistles, so long as they don't detract from the gameplay and the (sacrosanct) storyline. Long live the Plot!

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Message From Spiderweb - Brain Blocked in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #73
Different AP costs for different for different weapons is more realistic, but it doesn't make much sense from a play-balance perspective, and it would probably be hard to program in. After all, you're already sacrificing a shield to use two handed weapons. Most Two handed weapons are bad enough as it is-the only reason I'd ever use a greatsword is for demonslayer, and I never use a pike. I use halberds sometimes, which in my mind are the only two-handers which are really worthwhile.
So, obviously, 5 AP for heavy weapons won't work. On the other hand, 3 AP for daggers is pretty reasonable. I never use daggers, because they're pretty worthless (since melee weapons aside from greatswords all weigh next to nothing), so an AP cost of 3 for them might be reasonable.

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Message From Spiderweb - Brain Blocked in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #63
I like cloud of blades alot, myself. Anyway, a physical damage spell would be cool. Maybe combine that and dispelling effects? Minor damage and dispel magic on the target. Call it something like 'Nullify'.
Or how about this:
L1: remove haste bless and shield on single.
L2: remove haste, bless, magic resist and shield on single, minor damage.
L3: remove all positive positive status on sinlgle, minor damage.
I, for one, hated it when wizards cast arcane shield.

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Message From Spiderweb - Brain Blocked in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #61
Protective circle sounds like a cool idea for a wall spell, but the version suggested on this thread seems really overpowered. Keep in mind that these are MID LEVEL mage spells, not the next divine warrior (I know divine warrior isn't a mage spell). We do need a new wall spell of some sort. I propose an antimagic cloud spell as follows:
L1: 1 2x2 cloud
L2: 2 2x2 clouds
L3: 2 3x3 clouds

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Should it be made at all? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #40
Don't let it get to you, Motekye. If people want to cheat, they will, no way around it. They probably wouldn't be the ones who would appreciate the fine points of your scenario anyway. Also, some people really are genuinely inept at games (I wouldn't quite include myself in this group, but I can come pretty close), and need a bit of a boost to get through scenarios others might not have trouble with.
Anyway, just say in the scenario documentation or description that you want people to play with a singleton, and most people who care enough to play it the 'right' way will.

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
What graphics you want? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #18
Hmm. A three tile tall terrain would probably work (after all, there seem to be several terrains more than 2 tiles high). A three tile monster wouldn't work because the highest tile would count as a seperate entity, and would be considered blocked to PC movement, which doesn't make much sense. Also, the third tile would actually appear to be below the second. You could make some sort of monster with four 'quadrants' which were each 1x2 graphics, thus making it a 2x2x2 monster, but this would most likely be hard to use in the game itself.

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Message From Spiderweb - Brain Blocked in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #53
A fireball spell might be a bit overpowered, considering everything else is just multi instead of mass target. I still think some sort of wall (probably fire or anti-magic) would be best, along with some sort of augmentation or enfeeblement spell. Possibly 'Dispel Magic' which removes haste, bless and shield from single/ multiple targets?

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Message From Spiderweb - Brain Blocked in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #50
Not to stifle anyone's creativity, but most of these ideas sound like special items or strings, rather than spells or skills. Take for example the idea of a spell that creates a bridge: it sounds more like the solution to a puzzle than a routinely used spell. Spells have to have a fairly universal application (the useless ones aside), and a bridge creation spell would either be overpowered (in a scenario that didn't compensate for its existence) or else largely useless except in a few puzzles. In general, special movement related spells will act as I described before, though some more than others. Stealth would be one of the less game-breaking ones, while flight related stuff tends to be the one that gives the most headaches.
I used the bridge creation spell as an example, this doesn't just apply to that. Anyway, simulacrum and capture soul were combat-only spells, so let's look for replacements that fulfill similar roles. Apologies for my long-windedness.

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
What graphics you want? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #16
The largest size you can make is 1x2, as far as I've heard. You could conceivably make a a 2x2 or even 3x2 monster, but it would be difficult to make, probably not worth it in terms of results, and a nightmare to program in as an actual monster.

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Should it be made at all? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #24
I disagree on the point of the free automap. I prefer it this way-the free automap in the exile series and nethergate was a nuisance. It covered up the screen enough that I'd almost never use it; I'd just keep it minimized and use my memory. The current automap works very well, for me at least.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
I will host BoA graphics in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #3
Alright, I've sent along a few of mine. About a half dozen monsters and two terrains.

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Graphics Archive? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #0
At this stage (now that TM's graphic archive seems to be pretty defunct), are there any open Blades of Avernum graphics sites? By 'open' I mean sites that will host peoples' work, since there seem to be a few private/personal graphics sites. I've made many Avernum graphics, and judging by the posts I've read, at least a half dozen (and possibly many more) people have as well.

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Message From Spiderweb - Brain Blocked in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #38
Stealth sounds like a cool idea, if it could be programmed in. I remember using the 'stealth' spell alot in exile 2. It would be a nice addition, and would help to encourage scenarios where you actually snuck around, as opposed to just killing everything in sight (or, in some extreme cases, killing everything in sight in an ambush or running away). Speaking of the stealth spell, a good new mage spell might be something in that vein.

[ Friday, November 08, 2002 07:15: Message edited by: modnaR ]

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Message From Spiderweb - Brain Blocked in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #29
I'd really like to see an unarmed combat skill put in. That would be really cool. As it stands, unarmed attacks do next to no damage, though they are quick. Does this really do justice to masters of [insert name of martial art here], who can kill people easily and efficiently with there bare hands? Admittedly, this would involove alot of anatomy (as well as high strength and dex) in the real world, but nonetheless. Also, I think you should really make the advanced skills cheaper to train in (both monetarily and in terms of skill points), to make up for the fact that NPCs no longer sell them.
Also, is it possible for NPCs to sell skills at all? I know it was in Blades, and people like solberg in A1 or the nephil guy in A2 would sell you standard skills. Will it be in BoA?

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Message From Spiderweb - Brain Blocked in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #18
Actually, antimagic cloud wouldn't necessarily be overpowered. If it were like cloud of blades, then it would be easily moved out of. You'd have to pin the enemy inside it, so it would still be less powerful than just summoning a null bug.

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Message From Spiderweb - Brain Blocked in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #13
More wall spells would be nice, particularly an antimagic cloud, though possibly this should be higher level than simulacrum or capture soul, though since the cloud would be nowhere near as big, it probably wouldn't be quite so overpowered.
Another spell than aids your characters or weakens the enemy would be nice, since we no longer have divine warrior or bind foe. Also, I would disagree with the point about the flight spell: this would not be a good idea. If you have the orb of thralni in you scenario, it's presumably because you chose to give it. Not necessarily so with a flight spell
As for special skills, the current ones are good, and would work very well if given a few additions like the aforementioned marksmanship, along with some sort of hunter skill, maybe allow you to gather food outside occasionally, and do more damage to animals-this would probably come from some sort of weapons skill, hardiness and wilderness lore. Possibly some sort of divine aura that gives minor healing or blessing at random (though probably not). Also, possibly monk skills like unarmed strike (which would boost damage with bare hands) and natural armor (which would act as defense and block damage if the character wasn't wearing encumbering armor); both of these skills would probably be linked to strength, dexterity, endurance and hardiness.
Also, how will skills that you can't currently train in, like resistance, magery, and find herbs work? And will there still be mind crystals that teach you advanced skills?

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Will the resistance's be right? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #23
Not many, though. Parody is an insufficiently explored area. It's not necessarily the best format for a scenario of in the avernum/exile mythos, but it can still be very funny, and at least it's better than the 'cookie cutter epics'. This is not to say that epics are bad per se. I love the good, inspired one to death. Just that ones that lack individuality tend to be bad.

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Will the resistance's be right? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #21
Well, it depends on the play in question. Some of shakespeare's tragedies are very good, and fully worthy of the reputations they have. On the other hand, most of the comedies are weak. As the reduced shakespeare company says 'the tragedies are funnier'. And don't even get me started on the apocrypha.
And now it's really time to steer this gratuitously off-topic conversation back to its original topic. My apologies.

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Will the resistance's be right? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #19
Yep, that's about it. Though you could argue that that's the case with alot of the scenarios. Someone would probably manage to find a metaphor in there, if the scenario were popular enough.

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Will the resistance's be right? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #17
Define 'Joke'. I'm seriously planning to make a scenario with that name, but the name is meant to be humorous, in the sense of poking fun at generic, cookie cutter, 'epic' scenario names.

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00

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