Should it be made at all?

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AuthorTopic: Should it be made at all?
Warrior
Member # 1793
Profile Homepage #0


   &nbspHey everyone, Blades of Avernum sounds like an awesome idea on paper, but I for one don't think it'll work. Don't get me wrong, I love Avernum and the Exile series with a passion, but there are enough programs that support the untalented on the market as it is. I'm not picking on BoA in particular, and Blades of Exile was a brilliant success. BoE, however, came at a different age when intelligent and imagineative people ruled the web, now the stupid seem to control everything. I'm not saying BoA is destined to failure, I just think a note of caution should be taken to prevent another RM2K. Anyone who uses RM2K knows how difficult it is to sift through the terrible, awful, filthy games to find a descent one. Please tell me what you think should be done.


                                                =^ ]       Motekye Out.

Posts: 123 | Registered: Sunday, August 25 2002 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 1418
Profile Homepage #1
find a site that lists the good scenarios.

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Geneforge 2 Editor
Posts: 406 | Registered: Tuesday, July 2 2002 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #2
BoA will cost money, so only people with real interest in playing and designing scenarios will purchase it. Then, if the system is like BoE, the scenarios will be rated by players and sorted by ranking on Spiderweb's site. The ratings aren't always accurate, but usually the complete junk is weeded out.

—Alorael, who also considers asking right here a good way to get scenario recommendations.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 164
Profile Homepage #3
Even if 99.9% of online people are stupid, the scenarios created will be judged mainly by the smarter people(or so it seems.)

Stupid people's scenarios will remain stupid and no one will play a 1/10 rated scenario.

We should ENCOURAGE stupid people to buy the game--just to support Spidweb. If they make stupid scenarios we can ditch them. ;)

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Awesome BoA Graphics

MSN: bleusoulilcercatore@hotmail.com
AIM: Byzantine Jones
Posts: 635 | Registered: Monday, October 15 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 643
Profile #4
Yesh, sounds like if someone doesnt make a scenerio completely satisfactory, everyones going to hunt them down with torches and pitchforks. :eek:

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Fine Meal is people!!!
Posts: 289 | Registered: Saturday, February 16 2002 08:00
Warrior
Member # 1793
Profile Homepage #5
Thank you all for your insightful replies,

I suppose it's really a matter of taste and finding places where creative genius flourishes. I also agree whole heartedly that Spiderweb should be supported by the masses that supply money so Spiderweb can continue to churn out great new games.

-Motekye.

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Leave me alone.
Posts: 123 | Registered: Sunday, August 25 2002 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #6
There are anywhere from 10 to 20 really good and dedicated scenario designers, and plenty more that could be with some work. New scenarios are being created now at a much faster rate than ever before.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
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You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Agent
Member # 1558
Profile #7
Not as fast as it used to be, some people got less interested as time passed.

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DONOR Fat Freddys Drop
Shirow Miwa
Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #8
No, this is much faster than it has ever been. We have 28 scenarios in this contest, with more that couldn't be finished in time. Only at the very beginning of scenario design have more scenarios been produced in a year.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
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You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 835
Profile Homepage #9
Don't forget that BoA is largely a niche game. Yes, there are a lot of stupid people on the internet, but I'd say a huge majority of them would probably be turned off by Avernum's graphics and gameplay. They want shiny trinkets, 3D effects, action combat, multiplayer deathmatch dualing, and so on. You can cross these people off the list of perspective scenario makers because the screenshots alone would run them off. If that didn't get them, the mention of the turn based combat would.
Posts: 143 | Registered: Tuesday, March 26 2002 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1973
Profile Homepage #10
St. Proverbius said what I was going to say.
Posts: 319 | Registered: Monday, September 30 2002 07:00
BoE Posse
Member # 15
Profile Homepage #11
This is a moot point. It IS being made. Let's go with that reality, and help make it the best it can be.

So, when Jeff asks for input - provide it!

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All that we see, or seem, is but a dream within a dream.

Visit the Louvre, the BoA Graphics Database at http://www.personal.psu.edu/bxb11/boa/louvre/
Visit Alexandria, the BoE Scenario Database at http://www.personal.psu.edu/bxb11/boe/alexandriajs/
Posts: 653 | Registered: Thursday, September 27 2001 07:00
Master
Member # 1046
Profile Homepage #12
I feel that not all people who play fancy, high-budget games would run away on sight of Avernum's graphics and interface. I myself love hack n' slasher "RPG"s and high-budget RTS's, even though they sometimes lag on the best computers (fine, it lags on mine, but I bought it only three months ago). However, I still love Avernum and the rich storylines. Therefore, BoA CAN be targeted to all.

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Polaris - owns you.
Undead Theories - double U slash E
Posts: 3323 | Registered: Thursday, April 25 2002 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 1911
Profile #13
you also have to remember that the stupid people are new, the old smart people that are part of BOE are still around, if anything the presence of the idiot masses allows for the chances of diamonds in the rough

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OHHHH YEAAAAAAAAAH!
Posts: 408 | Registered: Friday, September 20 2002 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 2216
Profile #14
In thoery, the idea is brilliant, but the complications outweigh the possibilities. To my knowledge, there won't be as much scope for the development of new scenarios.

In BOE you could make entire new races and monsters, but i guess it's gonna be a lot more complicated for the Avernum version, ie you have to spend a great deal more time doing the graphics and stuff like that. For BoE you could make a whole NEW place, but the scope's gonna be severly limited for BoA.

As for 'stupid' people on the net, it's just there are more people learning about the net, once they do, they can be introduced into the niche of this style of game.

It's like the pop industry, you can churn out crap, but after a while people aint gonna buy it, they want the good old stuff.
That's the same with games. There's so much rubbish with all the glitzy graphics, but games like Avernum, really expand the mind, which is what a lot of gamers want. Not poor storylines and amazing graphics!

Bring back the adventure!!
Posts: 2 | Registered: Friday, November 8 2002 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #15
BoA should be more flexible, not less. New races of monsters will require more graphics, and the graphics are harder to create, but it's still possible. I'm not sure what you mean by creating a new place in BoE, but BoA should be able to do the same thing. Again, the only limitation is custom terrain; the graphics are more detailed (although at least there aren't as many different views as there are for terrain!).

—Alorael, who thinks that if the scripting system is all that Jeff has promised, it will allow for many new tricks and concepts in scenarios. This, combined with a higher town limit, will lead to all sorts of great things.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 147
Profile #16
I'm fairly sure that provided the same bunch of incompetents don't sign up to beta BoA as did BoE, BoA should be a little better than its predecessor, but much more complicated. I'll wait until it comes out before deciding whether it's worth registering or whether I should just wait for Pyg.
Posts: 1000 | Registered: Thursday, October 11 2001 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #17
Well, *i and I will beta-test the Mac version, and more of you can sign up.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 431
Profile #18
I don't see why should BoA be a failure (not a total failure, but a little). I think we'll be able to do greater things than with BoE (though I never registered it), and yes, we'll need to create more graphics, and put a little bit more effort, but if you work hard, you'll get a really decent scenario, and so will others.
You never know where talent is hidden... :)

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GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY TOMATO!
Posts: 367 | Registered: Sunday, December 23 2001 08:00
Agent
Member # 1558
Profile #19
quote:
Originally posted by Drakefyre:
and more of you can sign up.
I wish I had a Mac.

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DONOR Fat Freddys Drop
Shirow Miwa
Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00
Warrior
Member # 1793
Profile Homepage #20
Thank you once again for your prompt replies and well thought out ideas.

I worry that perhaps Blades of Avernum won't provide the level of costomization neccessary to make an effective scenerio editor. For instance, I wonder if BoA will allow for setting maximum party members or changing the amount of starting skill points or disabiling or creating new skills altogether.

I for one would like to change the interface back to a free automap like in Nethergate and allow more / less party members. I could easily create graphics for new player character races, but what about changing the racial adjustments? I also wonder if new spells could be created.

Frankly I think in addition to providing Blades of Avernum, Spiderweb might also consider posting the source code to the Avernum series. I think it would be much easier on the programmers and allow for a level of tweaking un-heard of in regular scenerio editors.

Just a thought.

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Leave me alone.
Posts: 123 | Registered: Sunday, August 25 2002 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #21
Jeff has said that he wants the player to bring in any party they want to. That means no customized races, no set amounts of skill points, etc.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #22
quote:
Originally posted by Motekye:
[b]I wonder if BoA will allow for setting maximum party members or changing the amount of starting skill points or disabiling or creating new skills altogether.
[/b]

Using special nodes, one can limit the number of party members fairly well in BoE. BoA will probably be able to do the same.

Starting skill points cannot be chosen because a new party isn't created for each scenario. Jeff has already said that there will be no custom skills, which I assume means you won't be able to disable any either.

quote:
[b]I for one would like to change the interface back to a free automap like in Nethergate and allow more / less party members.
[/b]

What do you mean by a free automap? There isn't much difference in the terrain or mapping system between Nethergate and Avernum.

quote:
[b]I could easily create graphics for new player character races, but what about changing the racial adjustments? I also wonder if new spells could be created.
[/b]

Once again, the answers are both no.

—Alorael, who feels slightly depressed about pointing out all the parts of BoA that aren't flexible. Still, before deciding it's not worth the effort, why not wait until it's actually made? Give it a try and see for yourself if it allows enough customization.

Frankly I think in addition to providing Blades of Avernum, Spiderweb might also consider posting the source code to the Avernum series. I think it would be much easier on the programmers and allow for a level of tweaking un-heard of in regular scenerio editors.

Just a thought.[/QB][/QUOTE]
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1829
Profile #23
quote:
Originally posted by Alorael:
What do you mean by a free automap? There isn't much difference in the terrain or mapping system between Nethergate and Avernum.
I actually think he's talking about having the automap in a loose window instead of it being part of the main window Avernum runs in.
At least both the Exile series and Nethergate had that on Windows, I'm not really sure how it'd be on a mac.
Posts: 206 | Registered: Tuesday, September 3 2002 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #24
I disagree on the point of the free automap. I prefer it this way-the free automap in the exile series and nethergate was a nuisance. It covered up the screen enough that I'd almost never use it; I'd just keep it minimized and use my memory. The current automap works very well, for me at least.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00

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