Should it be made at all?

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AuthorTopic: Should it be made at all?
Warrior
Member # 835
Profile Homepage #25
quote:
Originally posted by Mister Mark:
As for 'stupid' people on the net, it's just there are more people learning about the net, once they do, they can be introduced into the niche of this style of game.
Oh, if only that were true. I've known people who've been on the internet for years, but when I show them Avernum, they say something like, "That game looks ass." or something similar.

Unfortunately, there are people out there who demand cutting edge graphics to draw them in to trying a game. In fact, if you'll check out most interviews done on gaming news sites, there's nearly always questions about the graphics themselves because a lot of people actually tend to focus on that.

Frankly, I'm not so much concerned about graphics as I am the gameplay, but I wouldn't say I'm the norm either. I wouldn't say most people here are the norm. Obviously Spiderweb's never made use of the latest 3D hardware, and that's fine by me because the games are good. There are many, many others who don't see it that way.

quote:
It's like the pop industry, you can churn out crap, but after a while people aint gonna buy it, they want the good old stuff.

That's the same with games. There's so much rubbish with all the glitzy graphics, but games like Avernum, really expand the mind, which is what a lot of gamers want. Not poor storylines and amazing graphics!

Actually, I think this is why a lot of publishers are moving to console titles where they can continue making glitzy crap and still sell hundreds of thousands of volumes of the title.

Expectations tend to be lower for console games because of the limits they have, and with all the units out there in homes, it's not really much of a stretch. They're also easier to write for and you don't have to patch games released on them.. yet.

Let's just be happy there are independent developers out there.
Posts: 143 | Registered: Tuesday, March 26 2002 08:00
Warrior
Member # 1793
Profile Homepage #26
Be that as it may, I personally prefer the free automap, especialy when exploring new towns. It allows me to watch both how much I've explored the town as well as lets me put the stuff I pick up in my inventory without switching back and forth.

Also, I have been informed that a Blades of Avernum clone will provide all the levels of customization that BoA won't.

I'll probably do scenerios for both, seeing as how the clone is freeware.

As for the party sharing thing, I think it ruins the game. Scenerio editors will have no way of knowing how experienced the players entering their scenerios will be. Thus Blademaster characters with 10,000 skill points could enter a wimpy scenerio and plow right through it completely missing the clever details and well thought out story.

Besides, the scenerio I was planning on doing was a Singleton, the story was about the single character going on a quest to find himself. On the way facing a multitude of physical and psycological hurdles.

Anyways, thank you once again for your seasoned wisdom.

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Leave me alone.
Posts: 123 | Registered: Sunday, August 25 2002 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 1823
Profile Homepage #27
You could always give a prefab save file to the user and tell them to use it (like election or echoes:assualt). They dont have to, but it will certainly make the game a lot more fun for them (it probably wouldnt make sense otherwise). If people use super parties for low level scenarios, the same goes, it just wont be much fun.

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Riot Shields
Voodoo Economics
It's just business
Cattle prods
And the IMF

I trust I can rely on your vote
Posts: 530 | Registered: Sunday, September 1 2002 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #28
Actually, there is a way to check. There's no way to really stop someone from cheating once they enter the scenario, but you can strip the party of items, check the level of the party, check the number of people in the party, etc.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
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You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 1793
Profile Homepage #29
Then all I have to do is delete all but one character and completely change all their statistics.

Of course that would permenantly destroy their party.

>^]

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Leave me alone.
Posts: 123 | Registered: Sunday, August 25 2002 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #30
It wouldn't permanently destroy it unless they save over the file. But the way to do what you want is to include a save file of a party you've made with the correct stats.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 1793
Profile Homepage #31
Yeah, but what are the chances that they'd actually use the save file?

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Leave me alone.
Posts: 123 | Registered: Sunday, August 25 2002 07:00
Warrior
Member # 1210
Profile Homepage #32
alright......dont be a dork on, OF COURSE ITS GONNA SELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...........i go on before and after school to play all the other avernum games *demos cus my dad wont let me use his freaking credit card* im sure other ppl do same as me and go on *most prob have full V* ......even so, BoA is gonna rock, no question man.....it will be just as good as the other's.........and i personally like BoE as a favorite....and BoA will have the same map layout *notice the simmilarity in the exile series and avernum series* *if you didnt notice them......i pity you* back to the map layout....oh ya lol....i will love BoA....im SURE of it

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"Don't let your mind wander- It might not come back..."
Posts: 99 | Registered: Saturday, May 25 2002 07:00
Warrior
Member # 1793
Profile Homepage #33
...

I know it'll be good,

the conversation has shifted to automaps and BoA scenerios now.

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Leave me alone.
Posts: 123 | Registered: Sunday, August 25 2002 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #34
quote:
Originally posted by Motekye:
Yeah, but what are the chances that they'd actually use the save file?
You'd be surprised at how many do. Most people will use it to get a feel for the scenario.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 1793
Profile Homepage #35
I suppose, but I'd like to find a way to enforce it more.

For example, in my preposed scenerio, you don't need to use the prebuilt character to understand the game better, you need to use the prebuilt to understand the game at all!

The scenerio is about one person in particular. It wouldn't make sense for four people to embark on this quest.

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Leave me alone.
Posts: 123 | Registered: Sunday, August 25 2002 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #36
You can give the person 100 points in First Aid and then check for first aid skill, if you want ...

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 1823
Profile Homepage #37
Only the afformentioned stupid people would use their own party. Anyone at least marginally intelligent will realise that playing games is meant to be fun, and that, with games like spidweb's, the fun is in the story. If they just blitz through it with their own party it'll be boring for them - their loss

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Riot Shields
Voodoo Economics
It's just business
Cattle prods
And the IMF

I trust I can rely on your vote
Posts: 530 | Registered: Sunday, September 1 2002 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 1823
Profile Homepage #38
Only the afformentioned stupid people would use their own party. Anyone at least marginally intelligent will realise that playing games is meant to be fun, and that, with games like spidweb's, the fun is in the story. If they just blitz through it with their own party it'll be boring for them - their loss

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Riot Shields
Voodoo Economics
It's just business
Cattle prods
And the IMF

I trust I can rely on your vote
Posts: 530 | Registered: Sunday, September 1 2002 07:00
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #39
If players want to cheat, then they will cheat, one way or another. Even on the best designed commercial games, people find ways to cheat. If the player chooses to cheat, then it is his/her perogative. However, that same player will also miss the finer elements and not get the whole enjoyment out of the scenario.

That's just my two cents.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #40
Don't let it get to you, Motekye. If people want to cheat, they will, no way around it. They probably wouldn't be the ones who would appreciate the fine points of your scenario anyway. Also, some people really are genuinely inept at games (I wouldn't quite include myself in this group, but I can come pretty close), and need a bit of a boost to get through scenarios others might not have trouble with.
Anyway, just say in the scenario documentation or description that you want people to play with a singleton, and most people who care enough to play it the 'right' way will.

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Warrior
Member # 226
Profile #41
I play ' sparkly 3d games' like Neverwinter nights, half-life etc but i always come back to the exiles and avernums because they are so fun to play. I'm still making my first scenario for BOE, mainly because im good at painting terrain but not so good at doing the real work but im going to persevere because im losing my job due to a company merger.

I actually first discovered exile on a 7 cd compilation and had it installed when my CD-Rom packed up one summer i couldn't play any 'fancy' games so i played it all summer and there began the addiction.

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Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

§ Behold the Stamp, for it sticks to the same thing until it reaches its destination! (Apt for us scenario designers!!) §
Posts: 182 | Registered: Sunday, October 28 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #42
This being a forum on games that have relatively bad graphics and the gamers who love them, and indeed a discussion on the stupidity of those who don't love them, I feel I must include a caveat.
I don't think there's anything wrong with top of the line graphics in a game. I really enjoy neverwinter nights, and I like console RPGs as well. There's nothing wrong with a few bells and whistles, so long as they don't detract from the gameplay and the (sacrosanct) storyline. Long live the Plot!

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Agent
Member # 1558
Profile #43
Well put!

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DONOR Fat Freddys Drop
Shirow Miwa
Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00
Warrior
Member # 1793
Profile Homepage #44
I think I have a better, faster, but harder way to solve this.

I intend to make a BoA clone in C++. ( I will more than likely fail miserably. )

I will attempt to make this clone **Absolutely Modular** like the wonderful people at RedWolf Design have done with their hit Clonk series.

This will not by any means be easy, I have a long and trecherous road ahead of me.

Wish me luck.

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Leave me alone.
Posts: 123 | Registered: Sunday, August 25 2002 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1973
Profile Homepage #45
That's the kind of project one would be well advised not to publicise until one has actually begun production. Ideally, one ought to keep it under wraps until all the big problems have been hammered out and screenshots are available. Of course, that's just my opinion.
Posts: 319 | Registered: Monday, September 30 2002 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #46
If you make a BoA clone, make sure it's not an actual copyright infringement. That would be extremely bad.

That out of the way, it's always nice to see more editors. Just remember that a steeper learning curve may make it better for advanced programmers, but those who just want to make a quick hack-and-slash scenario would be frightened off.

—Alorael, who would recommend talking to Djur about the possibilities of helping out with Pygmalion before trying to make yet another modular game maker. People will only buy so many.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00

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