Message From Spiderweb - Brain Blocked
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| Author | Topic: Message From Spiderweb - Brain Blocked |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Thursday, November 14 2002 12:33
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A one-way teleport spell could be set up using scripted events and an item, much like the Jewel of Returning in A3. The ability to teleport out of any nasty situation is easily abused and gets rid of the dangers of a dungeon crawl, which have already been greatly reduced by the lack of wandering monsters. Perhaps a physical damage spell could be made like Symbiosis from E3, only instead of hurting the caster to heal a target it hurts both target and caster. At higher levels, a lower amount of damage would be dealt to the mage and more would be done to the enemy. —Alorael, who would like to see wandering indoor monsters return. The enter, kill, leave, rest, repeat method of clearing dungeons is too powerful in Avernum. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 1558
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written Thursday, November 14 2002 18:47
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Yes, it is easy. More wandering monsters indoors that return after you leave, but only get experience for killing them the first time. -------------------- DONOR Fat Freddys Drop Shirow Miwa Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 1359
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written Thursday, November 14 2002 20:12
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I think you should be able to cast mage (and priest) spells at any level up to and including the maximum level you know it at. For example, in Avernum 2 there was the spell Bind Foe. This spell webbed on L1, put to sleep on L2, and paralyzed on L3. At certain times, most notably when fight Naga, it irritated me to no end that my level 58 mage could not Bind the Naga in any way. Nothing could resist webs, but just about anything which you would want to bind for a turn or two at higher levels could resist being paralyzed. I found myself constantly using the character editor to change the spell level. If any spells like Bind foe are included in BoA I strongly suggest allowing players to choose the level at which to cast it. Although paralyzing is the way to go with dervishes, webbing is the best thing to use against monsters like Demons, Nagas, and Liches. -------------------- PhoenixNinjas! Ninja-Moderation! What we need is Urban Wisdom! Vote Wise Man! Posts: 1277 | Registered: Monday, June 24 2002 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 1886
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written Thursday, November 14 2002 21:20
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2 words for ya', "Chain Lightning." Kind of like lightning spray, except that it jumps from badguy to badguy, doing less damage everystrike, with a maximum of, oh, say 9 strikes. Each level would increase both damage and number of strikes. It would be able to jump only a certain distance, and if there wasn't a suitable target it would either backtrack with only half damage, or it could jump to the characters, so that players would have to be careful about its use. -------------------- The Home of 8-bit Theater! Some cool WoT art here Nono! Bad Surfer!! This is it, The Document That no Evil Overlord can do Without Posts: 505 | Registered: Saturday, September 14 2002 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 65
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written Thursday, November 14 2002 23:48
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That's an interesting idea. And I like it I remember a spell from that old rpg by epicgames called castle of the winds or something and they had a spell that teleported monsters to randomly picked place in the dungeon. That could be spell but it would be hard to program and the same effect could be made with special nodes. Maybe they should bring the old mage spell invisibility back from e2 it beat the sanctuary spell hands down because it magically protected you as well. -------------------- Milla-Displacer Beastie This is also a good site Posts: 650 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 1425
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written Friday, November 15 2002 00:13
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Freeze Time spell, everyone but you freezes for 1-3 turns. Posts: 190 | Registered: Wednesday, July 3 2002 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 1982
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written Friday, November 15 2002 03:20
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You always have to keep in mind that the monsters could cast these new spells as well, so a fight against a spellcaster with "freeze time" and a few buddies would be disastrous even for a very high level party and "random teleport" would also be very annoying if cast by the enemy! The Mad Scientist [ Friday, November 15, 2002 07:30: Message edited by: MadScientist ] Posts: 23 | Registered: Tuesday, October 1 2002 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
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written Friday, November 15 2002 03:59
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Agreed. In fact, it's good to keep in mind that simulacrum was almost never used by monsters (except maybe vahnatai in A3, I can't remember) and capture soul was indeed never used. So just about any new spell included will make the game tougher. So, as was said, 'Freeze Time' would not work. Also, keep in mind that even if it wasn't so abusable by monsters, it's still probably going to be a level 9 spell. We're not looking for the next divine warrior here. Though would it kill Jeff to bring back beast ceremony? He could weaken it if he liked. It would still be better than forcecage. -------------------- Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog. Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am. If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law. Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 1097
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written Friday, November 15 2002 08:46
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Summarizing the coolest ideas and adding some of my own : Curse : At first level curses the target, following levels add more nasty abilities, duration and a few targets more. Mostly used against lonely big nasties and small groups of them. Poison : Just like the idea someone had. Does more damage overall than many of the other offensive spells but over a long time. At higher levels adds disease. Flamestrike : Just like the fireball spell of the exiles. Nasty against small, tightly packed enemy groups. Requires lots of strategy to use. Spellstrike : Only one single target. Very large damage and mana cost. Absolutely no defenses do anything against it, except for invulnerability. Dispel magic : Removes buffs and curses from all enemy and pc critters nearby. Vampiric drain : Does moderate damage to one foe, gives half of it as HP to the caster. Mana burn : Negative energy causes the spontaneus, violent destruction of an enemy caster's mana. Burns up to 150 MP, increasing with level, and deals half/as/twice as much (depending on level) damage. Posts: 23 | Registered: Sunday, May 5 2002 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 48
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written Friday, November 15 2002 19:38
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A few more ideas: 1. Did anyone mention avatar from E3? We need to slightly modify the spell to put it into the Avernum engine, though: L1: Invincible + Haste + War Blessing + Magic Resistance + Poison Weapons + Martyr's Shield. L2: Also Divinely touched. L3: Also resistance from *ALL* elemental (such as fire and ice) and other non-magic attacks (such as "dark" that Dark Wyrms breathe at you). 2. In the Exile series, monsters can cast bless, heal, etc. to fellow monsters but you can't do these to the creatures you summoned or other monsters that are friendly to you. In Avernum, you can heal them with Mass Heal, Haste them with Haste L3, but you can't bless or cure them! Perhaps the spell system should be changed so these spells can be directed toward other friendly monsters as well. [ Friday, November 15, 2002 19:39: Message edited by: y0d1n2a3 ] -------------------- "Father, forgive them, for they don't know what they are doing.-Luke 23:34 Posts: 329 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Friday, November 15 2002 19:52
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Divine Warrior was a passable substitute for Avatar in A1 and A2, but Jeff decided to take it out for A3. I guess he thought it was unbalancing, and it was extremely powerful. —Alorael, who wouldn't be averse to seeing it return. However, it's not a prime candidate for a mid-level mage spell. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 1692
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written Saturday, November 16 2002 07:32
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How about "Petrify", since you couldn't summon Ur-Basilisks anymore. I like the skill ideads, especially the Make Armor/Make Spell Scroll/Make Arrows ones. :cool: -------------------- Warning: Signatures in mirror are closer than they appear. Ambrosia Software | EVN | Flame Warriors | The EVula Empire | JoeCartoon | HectorCam | MacAddict | Maxim | MH-18 Posts: 25 | Registered: Thursday, August 8 2002 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 1823
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written Saturday, November 16 2002 10:47
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Petrify would be far too powerful for any mage spell, let alone a mid-level one (in my opinion anyway). It would just kill people flat out. Making armour etc. can be done as a part of a scenario, but I cant see it being a proper built in skill -------------------- Riot Shields Voodoo Economics It's just business Cattle prods And the IMF I trust I can rely on your vote Posts: 530 | Registered: Sunday, September 1 2002 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
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written Saturday, November 16 2002 12:05
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First of all, why are people suggesting something STRONGER than divine warrior? It seems to me this is an unlikely choice for mid-level mage spell, considering the original divine warrior (7 levels higher than cap soul or simulacrum) was taken out because it was overpowered. Second, Vampiric drain sounds like a really cool idea. After all, priests have some damaging spells that are nearly as good as their arcane equivalents, why shouldn't magi have at least something to heal themselves? How about dispel replaces capture soul, and vamp drain or the aforementioned curse spell replaces simulacrum. Third, I'd like to revamp (the pun, sorry as it is, was intended) the dispel idea: #targets=1+bonus/some number L1: a very little unblockable damage, remove haste, bless and shield, # target cap 1 L2: minor unblockable damage, remove haste, bless, shield, martyr's shield and magic resist, # cap 3 L3: unblockable damage, remove all positive status, # cap 5 The damage would probably be about a quarter to a third of the same level bolt of fire. Though of course none of this is set in stone. If Jeff decides to use this spell, he would of course decide the effects, since he's the one making the game. Apologies for my long windedness, thank you, and good night. EDIT: mana burn would be a cool idea if only the PCs could cast it. As it is, it would utterly ruin most parties if overused by enemies. If you don't believe me, go back and fight some mung demons. And they do nowhere near as much MP damage as this spell might. Also, it occurs to me: there seem to be more good ideas for spells than there are slots to fill. Might it be possible to raise the number of mage and priest spells to 21? Maybe instate Vampiric drain, Dispel and Poison as mage spells, and either holy ravage or divine warrior as the 'New' priest spell? [ Saturday, November 16, 2002 12:14: Message edited by: modnaR ] -------------------- Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog. Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am. If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law. Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00 |
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Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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written Saturday, November 16 2002 12:57
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All I want is no damage cap. Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
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written Saturday, November 16 2002 15:17
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I'm thinking Jeff probably won't include an extra spell, so my top two choices for mage spells are dispel and vampiric drain in that order, with curse/poison ravage thingy coming in a fairly close third. Of course vampiric drain would have to only affect living beings, like divine retribution. Anyway, I've been thinking some more about skills, and some of the skills from nethergate, among others, come to mind for advanced skills. Here's a list of ideas: Berserker: Like a weaker version of 'Go Berzerk', makes you do more damage in combat, but also makes you slightly easier to hit. Derived from high weapons skill, hardiness, strength and the like. Martial Training: some sort of omni-weapon skill, like the roman skill in Nethergate, to offset the fact that stats no longer affect the base values of weapons skills. Make it expensive, but cheaper than all the weapon skills put together. For the jack of all trades who doesn't specialize. It would be especially good if the idea about weapon type resistance was implemented, since characters would be more diversified in general. Magical Protection: acts like natural armor and raises resistances slightly (maybe 1% per point). More realistic, since most powerful magi (e.g. Garzahd, Hawthorne, Erika) have some sort of awesome magic defense which protects them from most damage. Derived from Mage skill, Priest skill, arcane lore. -------------------- Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog. Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am. If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law. Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 1654
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written Saturday, November 16 2002 19:44
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I would just like to remind everyone that some of the sugested spells(like divine warrior) are priest spells, not mage spells. Posts: 370 | Registered: Friday, August 2 2002 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 1046
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written Saturday, November 16 2002 19:54
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perhaps a spell that only damages living foes would be nice. sorta like "Death Coil" in Warcraft 3, only without the part where you heal undead. -------------------- Polaris - owns you. Undead Theories - double U slash E Posts: 3323 | Registered: Thursday, April 25 2002 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 1418
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written Saturday, November 16 2002 20:05
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quote:kinda like Divine Retribution? :P -------------------- Geneforge 2 Editor Posts: 406 | Registered: Tuesday, July 2 2002 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 1886
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written Saturday, November 16 2002 20:14
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Weird thought (but hey, if you knew me, then it wouldn't be all that surprising)- how about making it so that if you successfully use a skill a certain number of times (make it a somewhat high number, like 30 or so), and you don't train it while you are "practicing" it, then it would go up one level as if it had just purchased another level from a trainer. The skill point cost for the next level would still increase, but you wouldn't have to pay for it that one time. It would have to be made so that you couldn't take the skill beyond a certain number of levels or a practiced skill cap (like making it so you couldn't practice it past level 5, and you could only practice it up twice). Skills could be bumped up a little by low level characters, who, not being proficient with a given skill, almost have to improve it after each time they managed to do it right. Of course to keep higher level parties from abusing this, you would have to make it so that it couldn't be used after a certain level (not that it would stop them from just using the editor; but hey, it wouldn't be cheating). [ Saturday, November 16, 2002 20:17: Message edited by: NicolBolas ] -------------------- The Home of 8-bit Theater! Some cool WoT art here Nono! Bad Surfer!! This is it, The Document That no Evil Overlord can do Without Posts: 505 | Registered: Saturday, September 14 2002 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Saturday, November 16 2002 22:14
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I'd rather have my party learn entirely from training still, but I also see a problem with the suggestion. Most skills are very difficult to practice this way. If you hit in combat, is that weapons skill, dexterity, strength, assassination, or anatomy? All of them? How do you practice Arcane Lore if all checks for rune reading are either successes or failures based on your score? —Alorael, who would rather avoid the temptations of min/maxing his characters as well. Trying to start characters out with as few skillpoints spent as possible to learn the skills from use would just make life more irritating. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 1425
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written Sunday, November 17 2002 00:21
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Mind Duel! but make it so it works right. Posts: 190 | Registered: Wednesday, July 3 2002 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 1046
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written Sunday, November 17 2002 06:24
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quote:yes, only with less damage. -------------------- Polaris - owns you. Undead Theories - double U slash E Posts: 3323 | Registered: Thursday, April 25 2002 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
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written Sunday, November 17 2002 13:43
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Well, vampiric drain would probably be living-only. Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 1793
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written Monday, November 18 2002 00:23
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quote:I'd like to see intelligent monsters that, instead of swarm, re-lock doors, set traps, and do other things that create a hinderance to the adventurers. -------------------- Leave me alone. Posts: 123 | Registered: Sunday, August 25 2002 07:00 |