Message From Spiderweb - Brain Blocked

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AuthorTopic: Message From Spiderweb - Brain Blocked
Warrior
Member # 1793
Profile Homepage #51
If these such spells were in Potion / Scroll form only, designers would have a choice as to whiether they were used or not.

P.S. What about the combat simulator?

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Leave me alone.
Posts: 123 | Registered: Sunday, August 25 2002 07:00
Shaper
Member # 73
Profile #52
The combat simulator could be programmed by the designer.
I think a fireball spell would be the best. I like area-of-effect spells, as do most people.

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My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art
The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community
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Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #53
A fireball spell might be a bit overpowered, considering everything else is just multi instead of mass target. I still think some sort of wall (probably fire or anti-magic) would be best, along with some sort of augmentation or enfeeblement spell. Possibly 'Dispel Magic' which removes haste, bless and shield from single/ multiple targets?

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Shaper
Member # 32
Profile #54
How about a poison spell, similar to those from the Exile series.

Level 1=Minor Poison
Level 2=Medium Poison
Level 3=Major Poison

In order to keep with the fairness of the spell it should probably be limited to one target.

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Lt. Sullust
Cogito Ergo Sum
Polaris
Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Shaper
Member # 73
Profile #55
quote:
Originally posted by modnaR:
A fireball spell might be a bit overpowered, considering everything else is just multi instead of mass target. I still think some sort of wall (probably fire or anti-magic) would be best, along with some sort of augmentation or enfeeblement spell. Possibly 'Dispel Magic' which removes haste, bless and shield from single/ multiple targets?
However, with multiple target spells, the enemies can be spread out. With area-of-effect spells, they need to be together.

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My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art
The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community
The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database
Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database
BoE Webring - Self explanatory
Polaris - Free porn here
Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too)
They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance
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Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #56
My choices for spells to replace Capture Soul/Simulacrum:

* Poison
* Some kind of combat deterrant
* Antimagic

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 48
Profile #57
A few crazy ideas:

1. How about a spell that does fire, cold, magic AND physical damage at the same time?

2. Bring back the barrier spells from exile:

L1: Creates 1 Fire Barrier
L2: Creates 2-3 Force Baiiers
L3: Creates 2-3 walls of force barriers :D

3. Did anyone mention protective circle?

L1: Protctive circle around you (3x3 antimagic cloud around you, plus a layer of fire wall outside it)
L2: Protective circles around the whole party (antimagic cloud, followed by magic, then ice)
L3: Protectiev circles around the whole party (antimagic could, then blades, then magic, then ice)

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"Father, forgive them, for they don't know what they are doing.-Luke 23:34
Posts: 329 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 2122
Profile #58
I'm just starting to read through this huge thread but I'd like it'd be best to shy away from combined skills that made up of the effect of the components. I used to love getting gymnastics for my mages and priests because it gave them the effects of DEX that the used (hard to hit and act sooner) but didn't leave me paying for a high DEX. It was very cost effective. This effect is lessened if I have to buy a high dex to begin with (already giving me good dodge and initiative)
I do think the hunting (missile power + food) sounds cool.

Spellwise I think that dispel magic would be an interesting spell but one that the monsters use much more effectively than you.

Just my $0.02

[ Monday, November 11, 2002 19:03: Message edited by: Taylor ]
Posts: 46 | Registered: Monday, October 21 2002 07:00
Warrior
Member # 1793
Profile Homepage #59
I think Jeff should do away with skills entirely.

Instead he should make an accessable list of "Circumstances" and allow the creator to build his/her own skills using one or more of these "Circumstances".

It would probably be easier to build and work much better than the currently proposed system.

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Leave me alone.
Posts: 123 | Registered: Sunday, August 25 2002 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #60
But then you can't use the same party in more than one scenario, which is one of the selling points of BoA and BoE.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
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You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #61
Protective circle sounds like a cool idea for a wall spell, but the version suggested on this thread seems really overpowered. Keep in mind that these are MID LEVEL mage spells, not the next divine warrior (I know divine warrior isn't a mage spell). We do need a new wall spell of some sort. I propose an antimagic cloud spell as follows:
L1: 1 2x2 cloud
L2: 2 2x2 clouds
L3: 2 3x3 clouds

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #62
Personally, I hate wall spells for anything that isn't at a low level. It's intensely pointless- especially when you can't place walls arbitrarilly(sp). If you're replacing Capture Soul and Simulacrum (medium level spells), I want one of the spells to be a physical damage spell (such as Wound or Shockwave), which cannot be blocked by magic immunities or resistances. It would be very useful, and moreso than any field spell.

PS- Quickfire is stupid, in many ways.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #63
I like cloud of blades alot, myself. Anyway, a physical damage spell would be cool. Maybe combine that and dispelling effects? Minor damage and dispel magic on the target. Call it something like 'Nullify'.
Or how about this:
L1: remove haste bless and shield on single.
L2: remove haste, bless, magic resist and shield on single, minor damage.
L3: remove all positive positive status on sinlgle, minor damage.
I, for one, hated it when wizards cast arcane shield.

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 1982
Profile #64
The nice thing with Capture Soul and Simulacrum is that you can choose the right monster for the situation - whether you needed a spellcaster or a melee powerhouse. What if these two spells were replaced by a summoning spell where you could choose between a few monsters to summon? With increasing level of the spell more and powerful monsters could be available. Of course that means that these monsters types would have to be provided by the engine or could even be changed by the scenario designer.

Maybe a spell that increases one statistic while decreasing another e.g. increase hardiness by 10 while decreasing defense by 10, meaning that you would get hit more often but take less damage.

I also like the cloud spells, the curse spells and the dispell-spell mentioned above!

The Mad Scientist
Posts: 23 | Registered: Tuesday, October 1 2002 07:00
Board Administrator
Member # 1
Profile Homepage #65
"I also like the cloud spells, the curse spells and the dispell-spell mentioned above!"

I do too. I also really liked the archery mastery skill.

I have thought about doing unarmed combat for a while, but I'm undecided about trying to shoehorn that into the system. The question is: how do you keep this essentially from becoming just another sword.

The answer games usually take is to make a specific monk class, which does fast uber unarmed damage but makies up for it by enforcing light armor and protection. However, then, to keep the character alive, it gives defense bonuses to monk-types.

All these changes are necessary to balance out the class, but then you actually have a "character class", which is sort of antithetical to the system we're working with.

So unarmed combat will probably be a good idea that just doesn't quite fit (or wouldn't add enough to justify the balancing work).

- Jeff Vogel
Spiderweb Software
http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com
Posts: 960 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #66
I still think a physical damage spell would be great to have. And please, remove Forcecage. Terror has at least been useful to me once, but Forcecage is a piece of crap.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Senile Reptile
Member # 547
Profile #67
I do like "wound" class spells - they were very useful in most situations.

I would like to see poison come back. It's instrumental with low-level parties that run across an encounter just a bit too hard. Poison is what makes the "brave retreat" strategy actually win battles.

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Polaris
Posts: 1614 | Registered: Wednesday, January 23 2002 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #68
Perhaps an incentive toward making mages into decent fighters would be to make the physical damage spell deal damage based on strength, weapons skill, and equipped weapon as well as intelligence. In essence, this would be a way to attack an enemy from a distance. Depending on balance, this far-strike spell could either be given a chance to miss or not.

—Alorael, who has always wanted a reason to have his spellcasters carry around halberds. Besides the nice staff graphics, that is.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #69
One way of incorporating martial arts skills/unarmed combat would be to make it possible for the player to do more than one strike with high dexterity and light armor. So for instance, you could have two factors. One would be the damage and the other would be the number of strike.

The damage is pretty straightforward. Merely a strength calculation with some Martial Arts bonus. This would be calculated per each strike.

When a player chooses to have his PC attack a monster, the engine could calculate the number of strikes of that attack on some kind of dexterity minus encumbrance scale with some arbitrary maximum number of strikes.

So per strike damage wise, the PCs with weapons would have the upper hand. However, with multiple strikes, the high dexterity Martial Arts user could beat out the weapons user even though he/she does less damage per strike. Of course, total average damage would be higher because of a higher number of chances to hit/miss.

Of course, you still have somewhat the feeling of a class. However, there is nothing to prevent this same Martial Artist from taking up archery or mage spells, or even weapon combat (however, he/she would have to put on some armor and lose the multiple strike advantage. I have no problem with special magical items giving special bonuses as per increasing the number of hand to hand attacks the PC gets by +1 or something. Of course you do that with other skills (improve mage spells, etc.), so what is the harm? The key point being you have a warrior dependent more on stealth and speed than on raw strength and expensive equipment.

* * *

As far as the new mage spell, I seem to remember the monster spell Unholy Ravage from Exile III and Blades. Perhaps this could be made into a mage spell under a different name.

Level 1 - Low level physical damage, curses, weak poison
Level 2 - Medium physical damage, curses, medium poison
Level 3 - Multiple targets

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Master
Member # 1046
Profile Homepage #70
Ever since I started playing RPGs, I've been somewhat disturbed at the fact that 99% of all warriors were basically slow-moving tanks with gigantic hunks of metal the size of a decade-old tree. Therefore I strongly suggest:

1. A skill similar to "Fast on Feet" trait would be nice. It could be done so that the higher the skill, the higher the chance that you'll get that extra AP. Or at insanely high levels, you have a low chance of getting 2(!) extra APs. However, heavy equipment (BIG weapons, heavy armour) would sharply reduce this chance.

2. A skill like #1, except it gives you a chance to use one less for a physical attack. This works for both melee and ranged. Damage is reduced to about 90%. But then, you'll get a second attack on the same turn if you have no status effects. Again, heavy equipment would sharply reduce this chance.

EDIT: Somebody may have mentioned this already, but anyways:

Different attack AP costs for different weapons. A small weapon (like a dagger or short sword) would cost 3 AP, medium weapon (longsword, spear) 4AP, large weapon (greatsword, halberd) 5 AP. This is because you take MUCH less time to stab somebody with a dagger than chopping their bodies in half with a six-foot-long greatsword.

[ Wednesday, November 13, 2002 20:06: Message edited by: Consistent Inconsistencies ]

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Polaris - owns you.
Undead Theories - double U slash E
Posts: 3323 | Registered: Thursday, April 25 2002 07:00
Warrior
Member # 1793
Profile Homepage #71
quote:
PB: Drakefyre
But then you can't use the same party in more than one scenario, which is one of the selling points of BoA and BoE.

Simply create a standard for those who want the players parties used in their scenerios.
Or better yet, put the characters' scores for the varios circumstances could be used in the party files instead of the skill scores. The skills could be calculated by the scenerio.
Thus, one could use the same party for any scenerio.
But, really, jeff should give scenerio creators a choice on that matter.

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Leave me alone.
Posts: 123 | Registered: Sunday, August 25 2002 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #72
Yes, we know, but we've been over this before. See the big thread in the Blades of Exile forum.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1863
Profile #73
Different AP costs for different for different weapons is more realistic, but it doesn't make much sense from a play-balance perspective, and it would probably be hard to program in. After all, you're already sacrificing a shield to use two handed weapons. Most Two handed weapons are bad enough as it is-the only reason I'd ever use a greatsword is for demonslayer, and I never use a pike. I use halberds sometimes, which in my mind are the only two-handers which are really worthwhile.
So, obviously, 5 AP for heavy weapons won't work. On the other hand, 3 AP for daggers is pretty reasonable. I never use daggers, because they're pretty worthless (since melee weapons aside from greatswords all weigh next to nothing), so an AP cost of 3 for them might be reasonable.

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Fnord. (Insert your name here) is a capitalist pigdog.
Deus Ex Penguin: God out of the Penguin......Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, waffle I am.
If Voting could change the system, it would be against the law.
Posts: 298 | Registered: Tuesday, September 10 2002 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 1121
Profile Homepage #74
quote:
Originally posted by Motekye:
Or a telelport spell, you could set a telepoint only where you stand and use teleport again to return there.

[/QB]
I like this idea. It would be nice to be able to go to town and sell stuff or buy potions and then return to where you were. Silmilar to town portals in the Diablo games
Posts: 6 | Registered: Friday, May 10 2002 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 1826
Profile #75
I can't claim to have an original suggestion, but I hope that support of an existing idea is effective in getting it implemented.
I'd also like to see the return of a poison spell for the mage. I've missed using poison in all the games using the new engine I've played (Nethergate, A1&2, Geneforge thus far). Upping the damage by level would keep it useful, just like all the other spells. Perhaps as an alternative to making it work like Major Poison at level 3, it could affect multiple targets; not sure which would work better in terms of play balance.
I like the idea of being able to train in advanced skills with high enough stats, but would it still be possible to have a special encounter with an NPC selling points of a skill? That way an intrepid party might still be able to obtain parry for their mages from that volcano-dwelling hermit.

EDIT:Re-reading Jeff Vogel's original post, I'm guessing skills won't be sold as they were in the past- but is this still under consideration? Keep up the good work Jeff!

[ Thursday, November 14, 2002 09:40: Message edited by: Alien Blade ]
Posts: 41 | Registered: Sunday, September 1 2002 07:00

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