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An insane idea, but... in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #8
They didn't die out, they evolved. A list of possible changes:
Fyora -> Fire LizardCryoa -> Ice LizardArtila -> Wyrmkin, Dark WyrmServile -> TroglodyteOrnk -> CowTurret -> FungusThahd/Battle Alpha -> GiantRoamer -> HellhoundDrayk -> DrakeCryodrayk -> Ice DrakeDrakon -> DragonGazer -> GazerEyebeast -> EyebeastAny of these evolutions are fully possible, given the right amount of time. If my theory is correct, do you think humans would have been able to rebuild everything in a couple months? It would've required decades, or even centuries, to restore order and rebuild. By then, most, if not all, of the shaper knowledge would have been lost.
Also, mages were far more powerful in Geneforge than Avernum. It isn't unreasonable that they could excel in more than one form of magic. Besides, if I recall correctly, there are a few healers throughout the Geneforge series who specialize in healing and blessing magic only.

[ Saturday, September 16, 2006 12:35: Message edited by: Nioca ]

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AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers MeetFoul Hordes
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Statue for khoth in Blades of Avernum
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #6
As one of my parties learned the hard way, no. There's nothing back there anyway. Feel free to try, but I hold no liability for toasted parties.

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I tried to think of something witty to put here.

Needless to say, I failed.
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
An insane idea, but... in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #6
quote:
Originally written by Alorael:

Avernum and Geneforge are not set in the same universe, do not operate on the same laws, and should not be linked.
Jeff also said there would not be an Avernum 4. We all saw how that turned out. Also, laws can change over time, if they are in the right situation or are manipulated correctly. I can't decide whether I would like it if Avernum and Geneforge turned out to be the same world, just radically different times.

quote:
The likelihood of total extinction of all the breeding creations, especially serviles, seems unlikely (except for drayks, drakons, eyebeasts and gazers?). The appearance of sliths and nephilim seems unlikely when there are already serviles.
I didn't say total extinction. In fact, I didn't even mention extinction. I just said that only fractured remnents of the human race were scattered across the four continents.
Now that I think about, serviles could actually have evolved into the Troglodyte race, Thahds and/or Battle Alphas into giants. The sliths could have been a new creation made by the Drakons, for infiltration and such. Nephilim could have been the result of shapers attempting to deform an enemy, like Heustess in GF1.

quote:
The Shapers strongly oppose self-shaping, and the vahnatai are not human anymore.
You're forgetting primal instinct, which no creature is above. If you're life is threatend, there is a 99% chance that you will do anything just to survive. Everything, including humans, will fight to survive, no matter the cost. Saying that the vahnatai aren't human actually does more to back my point, rather then denounce it.

quote:
Many ruins are found in Avernum and on the surface, but none of them have any trace of Shapers in them.
To our knowledge, that is correct. But how many of these ruins have been discovered that we don't know about?

quote:
Priestly magic can't just appear overnight
In Geneforge, priestly magic is called Healing magic and Blessing magic.

quote:
Originally written by Slarty:

Need I remind everybody what happened the last time we discussed it?

UDDER DESTRUCTION, that's what!

The topic got attacked by cows? :P

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AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers MeetFoul Hordes
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
An insane idea, but... in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #0
Is it possible for the vahnatai of avernum to actually be a long-lost faction of the shapers?

Here is my reasoning behind this idea. Both the shapers and the vahnatai are highly dependent on crystals. Most shaper machines and devices used crystals to channel and control power. I remember a quest in Geneforge 2 where you had to fetch a Black Crystal for a shaper living in the mountains. Were these black crystals the forerunners for the vahnatai Purity Crystals?

Also, when the vahnatai created the monster plagues to attack Valorim, the alien beasts were the most destructive, and most bizzare of the creatures that attacked. Isn't it possible that these monsters were originally a shaper battle creation that was resurrected?

Also, the shapers, according to the Geneforge series, are heading toward an apocolyptic calamity. If this happens, there would be very few traces of the shapers on the surface. This would back up Jeff's claim that the Avernum and Geneforge worlds are not the same.

Based on this, I think that the war with the shapers started going south, and they started breaking their own rules and regulations. This caused fighting amongst themselves, and they started grabbing as much power as they could, not considering the consquences. They started making larger and larger creations, and massive machines to destroy each other. Soon, they started shaping themselves to attain further power, maybe giving rise to the Troglodytes and giants, and started violating the natural order of the world.

This continued for years, untill either one of the machines or spells reached such destructive power that is literally fractured the two continents, splitting them into the four continents Aizo, Palgrad, Valorim, and Vantanas. Only a few fractured remnents of the human race were left, scattered across the four continents.

However, just before the catastrophe, some of the shapers went underground, literally, into what is now Avernum. There, they learned to survive, and slowly evolved into a new race adapted to living in the caves: the vahnatai.

Well, that is just my opinion. Any thoughts?

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AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers MeetFoul Hordes
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Statue for khoth in Blades of Avernum
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #4
The Ritual of Sanctification can be found in that slith town where you had to buy passage. It is in a book somewhere, but you need to either fight the town or find the secret passage near the entrance to get it.

If you don't break the curse on the altar, you will get hit with some nasty statuses periodically, untill you break the curse or return the idol.

EDIT: I fixed the previous post. You don't get cursed for the rest of the game, just the rest of the scenario.

[ Friday, September 15, 2006 08:33: Message edited by: Nioca ]

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I tried to think of something witty to put here.

Needless to say, I failed.
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Statue for khoth in Blades of Avernum
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #2
It took me a long time to get out of there too. Here is how you do it...

First, if you have the Ritual of Sanctification, go back to the altar and use the ritual there. It will prevent the curse from affecting you for the rest of the scenario.

Now, go to the southeast corner of the pit and locate the totems at what appears to be a dead-end. It's a secret passage, but you can't use it yet.

Next, Go to the southwest corner and locate the pool. It is located behind a secret door just west of the southwest exit.

Now, look at your automap and figure out the fastest route from this pool to the southeast passage with the totems.

Once you've figured that out, drink the water in the pool. Then run for that southeast passage. If you get there fast enough, you can walk past the totems and through the secret door.

By the way, the only use for that statue is to turn it in at the fort for coins, if you get there in time.

You need either the Melora Opal from the Empire fort somewhere south of Morog's Fortress, the Dragon Scrolls from Morog, or the Purity Crystal from the Crystal Soul, who's name and location currently eludes me. Only these three items, or just killing the dragon, will get you by Khoth.

[ Friday, September 15, 2006 08:33: Message edited by: Nioca ]

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I tried to think of something witty to put here.

Needless to say, I failed.
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Unhandled Exception in ER in Blades of Avernum Editor
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #5
I can't see anything wrong with it, except for a missing bracket. I doubt that would cause an unhandled exception, though. :confused:

Do those creatures use any sort of unique script? It might not be this script, but something in the creature's script that is causing the UE.

EDIT: typo.

[ Friday, September 15, 2006 06:08: Message edited by: Nioca ]

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AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers MeetFoul Hordes
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Where is Vorhees? in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #7
The only way to erase a quest is to complete it. If you can't complete it, it will remain there for the rest of the game.

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AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers MeetFoul Hordes
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Oh no! Beta! in Blades of Avernum
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #8
If it's not too late, I'll give it a shot.

Name: Nioca
OS: Windows XP SP2
E-mail: wilson (AT) baldwin - net.com (Without spaces, and replace (AT) with @)

If it helps, I have some technical experience, so I can usually pin down a problem.

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I tried to think of something witty to put here.

Needless to say, I failed.
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Nephil archery bonus: missle and thrown? in Blades of Avernum
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #8
Quick Strike can give two action points, but the chance is extremely low. It probably isn't worth increasing the skill, just so that you reliably get a bonus 2 AP.

[ Wednesday, September 13, 2006 09:56: Message edited by: Nioca ]

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AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
melee in G4 in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #11
Also, in GF2, the Parry skill was broken. If you put most of your skill points in parry, it would make you almost invulnerable.

Besides, it's GF3 in which melee really took a hit. GF1 & 2 were fine.

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AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers MeetFoul Hordes
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Sorry I need help again!!! in The Exile Trilogy
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #1
Which game are you playing?

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I tried to think of something witty to put here.

Needless to say, I failed.
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
New Scenarios in Blades of Avernum
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #19
That will be Agadia Isle 2. :P

On a serious note, what happened to Embers of Rebellion? We heard a lot about that scenario, and then it disappeared.

EDIT: I just noticed it. Lazarus, are you aware that you have a period at the end of your name?

[ Monday, September 11, 2006 14:10: Message edited by: Nioca ]

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AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Graphics Request... in Blades of Avernum
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #1
I have a coffin graphic, but I can't say much for quality... Do you want me to send it to you?

EDIT: Nevermind. I just saw Niemand's coffin graphics, and it makes mine look rather pathetic.

[ Monday, September 11, 2006 12:12: Message edited by: Nioca ]

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Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them!
AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
New Scenarios in Blades of Avernum
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #17
Everyone hating dragons was only a small factor in changing the plot. I was getting to carried away with my imagination. As a result, the plot, and therefore the scenario, was getting insanely large and complicated, too much so for a first attempt.

As I started to make the scenario, I realized that my first attempt needed to be fairly small. I hadn't done much on the scenario, so I was able to change the plot without any problems.

Maybe in the future, I'll make Athron's Flight, but for now, I'll stick with Agadia Isle.

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AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
New Scenarios in Blades of Avernum
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #11
quote:
Originally written by Dintiradan:
Another reason why people don't talk about their scenarios is because they suck. At least, this is why I don't talk about mine much. After returning to it after over three months, I realized I didn't really like the plot any more. Oh well.
I'm sure it doesn't suck. Frankly, all unfinished scenarios seem terrible at one point or another, even if the finished product is excellent.

Also, you aren't the only one who gets part way through the scenario, and then hates the plot. For example, Agadia Isle was originally named Athron's Flight.

Of course, another small factor for this change was that everyone on this board seemed to hate the three dragons, especially Athron.

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AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
New Scenarios in Blades of Avernum
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #2
All right, so the up-and-coming scenarios are:
Where the Rivers Meet, by Thralni (Beta Testing)Exodus, by Kelandon (Beta Testing)Echoes: Renegade, by Terror's Martyr (Beta Testing)Rats Aplenty, by Smoo (Beta Testing)Legacy of Darkness, by Dintiradan (Designing: 90%)Embers of Rebellion, by Ephesos (Designing)Idols, by ThurylTwilight Vale, by Nikki xx (Designing: 15%)In the Twilight Shadows, by Tyranicus (Designing: 15%)The Eternal Vigil, by LazarusAgadia Isle, by Nioca (Designing: 13%)Avalanche, by Grail Shadowblade (Designing)A mystery scenario with Nephilim, by TralniAny others?
EDIT: Updated List. (09/15/2006/6:08 AM)

[ Friday, September 15, 2006 16:07: Message edited by: Nioca ]

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AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
New Scenarios in Blades of Avernum
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #0
First off, are there any new scenarios coming out for BoA? I know about Echoes: Renegade and Exodus, which are both in beta testing. Any others?

Secondly, two scenarios that we heard a lot about seem to have dropped off the face of the earth. Where the Rivers Meet by Tralni, which was last reported to also be in beta, has gone missing. Embers of Rebellion by Ephesos hasn't been seen recently either.

Does anyone know what happened to these two scenarios?

[ Sunday, September 10, 2006 16:47: Message edited by: Nioca ]

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AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
melee in G4 in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #3
It was discussed quite a bit in these two threads.
In my humble newbie opinion, the melee aspects of the game were greatly decreased. Then again, that still didn't stop me from having a Thahd with me till the end of the game. ;)

EDIT: Decided to link to two threads instead of one.

[ Sunday, September 10, 2006 13:13: Message edited by: Nioca ]

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AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers MeetFoul Hordes
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
BoA BUGS v6.0 in Blades of Avernum
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #38
Got it fixed. After re-installing BoA for the FOURTH time, it finally seems to have sorted itself out. Of course, only time will tell whether this problem is gone for good.

The reason I was sure it was a bug is that I've been battling this glitch for two months. I was also sure because three re-installs and several scripting variations had no effect.

My first assumption was that BoA was massively corrupted. While that seemed likely, I remember one morning when I woke up to find two of my towns were wrecked, past the point of repair.

That said, I am forced to come to the conclusion that my computer really hates me. :eek:

Well, at least I made one contribution to this thread...

EDIT: Again bad timing! Why am I cursed so? I do have to point out that I hit this problem in Delicia, with the attacking pillars. I checked that script, and there is no reason it should have given me trouble.

[ Sunday, September 10, 2006 12:41: Message edited by: Nioca ]

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Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them!
AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
BoA BUGS v6.0 in Blades of Avernum
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #36
The most recent on I got looked like this (by the way, this is in the message bar below the gameplay area):
elitenpc error: function call error (unary) in line 322. Then the script shuts down.

EDIT: If you're interested in looking at the code, it can be found in the BoA Editor forum, under the topic 'Creature Script Targeting Trouble.'

EDIT 2: Wow, we're getting off topic. I almost forgot this is a place to report bugs. :)

[ Sunday, September 10, 2006 08:50: Message edited by: Nioca ]

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AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Newbie questions: in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #21
Spellcraft improves all spells, including healing spells. In Geneforge 1, it really doesn't matter, because costs don't go up for skills. Geneforge 2 & 3 are a different story.

If you use different types of magic, your best bet would be to strike a balance between Healing and Spellcraft. Otherwise, increasing just healing is fine. Don't neglect your other skills in the process, though.

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I tried to think of something witty to put here.

Needless to say, I failed.
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
BoA BUGS v6.0 in Blades of Avernum
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #34
I'm running version 1.0.3, which I believe is the most up-to-date version. If a variable of any value is plugged into that call, the whole script breaks down. Since no one else has had trouble with it, it must be on my end...

EDIT: Typo. Apparently, I use variablees instead of variables.

[ Sunday, September 10, 2006 06:10: Message edited by: Nioca ]

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Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them!
AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
BoA BUGS v6.0 in Blades of Avernum
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #32
It's an error, which comes out, to the best extent of my memory, like this:
(problemscript) error: function call error (unary) in line xxx.

That being said, the pillars gave me these errors like crazy when I played it. What type of operating system are you using, and what version? Because it may be specific to Windows, or even a certain version of Windows. (Like my XP Pro.)

EDIT: Talk about poor timing. The variable I was using was 'protector', which worked in two other calls within the same script.

[ Saturday, September 09, 2006 18:46: Message edited by: Nioca ]

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Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them!
AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Creature Script Targeting Trouble in Blades of Avernum Editor
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #2
Got it fixed, thanks *i. Turns out, I had most of my target_ok conditionals backwards, which stopped target-finding cold, and a couple misplaced brackets was the reason for the attack state not activating.

That being said, I feel like a complete idiot.

On a different note, do you have to be registered at the Codex to submit codes?

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Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them!
AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers MeetFoul Hordes
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00

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