Profile for Emperor Tullegolar


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Avernum 4 Plot (possible spoilers) in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #3
You forgot the part that I found most intriguing: the Darkside Loyalists. A faction that believes the Empire has grown weak and that wishes to restore it to its former glory. Yes, yes, most... intriguing.

Edit: Blast. Two minutes too slow.

[ Friday, September 01, 2006 22:35: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ]

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #41
I fail to see how most of your examples relate to the topic at hand. Everything you said was true, but it had little to do with using a geneforge. I suppose you mean to say revealing secrets is dangerous because those that get them could become enemies. Yes, a good point. If only the shapers had not kept secrets in the first place they would never have fallen into the hands of the Takers. What? That makes no sense. Yes it does, because there would be no Takers, no abandoned serviles, no abandoned geneforge or canisters to discover. Too late now. Your point for keeping secrets in a time of war, however, is valid. And, since it is too late to prevent the war, then, yes, of course secrets should be kept from the enemies. That is a given.

I still think conventional means in this particular war are more brutal than the alternative. Millions of creations killing each other, cities annihilated and, I almost forgot, the diseases mentioned in the end of Geneforge 3. How can you not feel almost as if it is your duty to use the geneforge, just to end the suffering?

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #39
And the shapers need fear the Sholai why? They are a backwards people hardly worthy of a footnote. The shapers are not afraid of war with the Sholai, they merely wanted to avoid utter embarrassment. One of their secrets got out, and since they pride themselves on keeping secrets, they had to cover it up. What happens when the Sholai find this one out? The shapers will wish they told them in the first place.

You must look further back than Geneforge 3 to see what the real problem is. The problem is that the shapers tried to cover up the geneforge and canisters, leaving it all behind to be discovered by the outsiders in the first place. If only they had kept record of the geneforge, the whole problem could have been avoided, no Trajkov, no Barzahl, no Takers. The fact that the shapers kept it secret is the reason it all happened. I’ll bet now that the shapers are fighting for their very survival, they wish they had access to their own secrets, their own geneforge. Too bad they buried them where now they can not even find them. Stupid shapers.

By the way, no one answered a question I posed earlier. Would you approve of the use of a geneforge during a time of war? Or would you rather the war be drawn out through conventional means?

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
too much stuff?!? in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #1
Geneforge is great in that if you leave stuff on the ground, it will be there when you come back. So just pick a spot. Just out of curiosity, what kind of stuff does everyone carry around?

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #35
My dear Chairface, I would never advocate the ways of the Takers, I was merely using them as an example. I believe the shapers should be overthrown, but not be creations. That would be ludicrous. Nor am I a Barzite because I would not grant powers to any idiot passing by, either. In fact, the very word Barzite seems to be an oxymoron, as anyone who follows his teachings would never settle for living under the name of another. I believe shaper secrets should be available to the strongest and smartest, for they are the ones most likely improve on the methods currently in practice. The society should also be able to evolve, and experiments should be made public to avoid repetition of mistakes and so they they are not left behind to grow out of hand unchecked. I suppose this makes me a Tullegolite.

If nuclear weapons weren't proliferated, war between the United States and the Soviet Union would have been inevitable. Neither side wanted to attack the other due to the fear of the power of such weapons and, thus, major conflicts were avoided. The same can be said for the power of a geneforge. Who is going to attack someone with supreme power? Even better if multiple people have this power, because they will balance each other out.

As for Taker doctrine, I am almost certain it was Seros from Geneforge 2 that said he would spare humanity as long as they submitted to the power of the drakons. It matters not, as all Takers are rogues and their ways should never be taken seriously.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #31
quote:
Originally written by Drakefyre:

There's no reason to think that 200 or so years of technological improvements wouldn't provide a way for the human geneforge to be "perfected".
You’ve no idea how much this pleases me to hear.

quote:
Originally written by Chairface Chippendale:

I guess Akhari seemed pretty reasonable...aside from the whole "annihilate all humans" thing. His goal was to create a legion of super drakons to over throw the Shapers and take control of Terrestria for themselves
I do believe it is part of Taker doctrine to allow non-shaper humans to live, provided it is under drakon control. Yes, the goal is to overthrow the shapers, but is it not a worthy one? Surely one so terrified of shaper ways as you can see the good in this. As for collateral damage, it is regrettable but unavoidable. For the record, I am not a Taker, but I do not agree with the Shaper Council’s ways, either.

quote:
Originally written by Chairface Chippendale:

Also, the canisters in G3 were new canisters, made by Akhari in proliferated for the sole purpose of tempting humans to use them and disrupt society, to undermine the Shapers from within.
I seem to remember the canister workshop being located in Rising. It matters not, as I have explained the unfortunate fact that yes, the canisters do not work and yes, people use them anyway. They should all be destroyed, in my opinion. They would not even be necessary had the geneforge been perfected in the first place.

quote:
Originally written by Chairface Chippendale:

However, the experimental risks aren't worth the consequences of a failed experiment.
With this mindset we would still be in the dark ages. You can not win an argument if you insist that innovation is futile. Without it, we are nothing.

quote:
Originally written by Chairface Chippendale:

The problem with using Geneforges isn't as much in the design as it's in the inherent flaws of human nature. For humans to be able to use it with minimal consequence, it would take an entirely new philosophy and all aspects of human life would have to be rethought from the ground up.
I still don't think it is impossible for the Geneforge to enlighten the mind as well as strengthen the body. As for changing all aspects of human life: that certainly would take a revolution. Or even... a rebellion? Appropriately, this brings us back to the topic at had. Should shapers keep secrets? Keeping these secrets has only resulted in war, as it always will. The shaper way is life is about to be rethought after all, on a massive scale. I can not wait.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #28
quote:
Originally written by Dikiyoba:

The Geneforge was completed.
What makes you so sure? It was abandoned, probably before it was even tested. For all we know, your character and Trajkov end up using an unfinished product, a prototype. That could easily be the whole cause of this so called insanity!

My entire point is that we are not seeing the whole picture. It is most unfortunate that the only example we have of a geneforge used on a human is the mysterious failed experiment from Geneforge 1. I do not think this example is valid. The geneforge should not be looked at as a failure without more evidence. Canisters are incomplete, the first geneforge was almost certainly not the final goal, either. I want a new, perfected geneforge. Almost makes we want to become a Taker... almost.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #26
quote:
Originally written by Chairface Chippendale:

the Geneforge is inherently dangerous and there is no refining it.
Perhaps I wasn't paying attention to the game after all. I can't seem to remember them saying the geneforge could not be refined. In fact, I though that was the whole purpose of the Taker missions in Geneforge 2 and 3: refining the geneforge. Neither Eass nor Akhari-Blaze seemed as horribly insane as, say, Barzahl, who used canisters first and asked questions later. They actually seemed more rational than before they used it, allowing you to live among them in peace. I believe the geneforge can be refined, it merely takes patience. The reason your view has been distorted is because most shapers, myself included, take the Barzahl approach when faced with the option of using a geneforge, rather than an Eass approach.

Another possibility: maybe the canisters are not meant to be used. It could be that they are components of a geneforge never quite perfected. The original geneforge itself might never have even been completed. Perhaps the insanity that results from the use of these experimental technologies is simply a glitch that the Takers worked out and everyone else ignored.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Creations in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #5
Rather than storing an infinite amount, a better argument would be for one or two slots reserved for those special creations you have grown particularly attached to. After all, we must keep in mind those that are foolish enough to want to keep a creation around for sentimental value even after it has outlived its usefulness in battle rather than take the extra essence like a wise shaper.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Character Names in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #42
Over time, I have simply fallen in love with the names Gharzad and Rentar. (yes, Garzahd is spelled wrong, but ever since I started spelling it that way, it stuck) I now use these names for any game that is not Avernum. In Geneforge, both make appropriate shaper names. However, what I really love is when someone recognizes them in an online game, such as World of Warcraft.

As for Guardians, Dugrukore, Gone'krigar and Corgrinoba strike me as worthey warrior names. For agents, which are no fun to play anyway, short names like Gaille, Cyne and Tak will suffice.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Diablo Inspired? in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #3
Good points. The fact that Diablo is not turn based is probably what throws you all off from seeing the similarities. But I think the hack and slash style makes Avernum 4 much more like Diablo than the previous Avernum games, or, for that matter, any other RPG I have played.

Planescape: Torment is not available for Mac, thus, I must assume it is a terrible game that was not good enough to be ported.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #20
quote:
Originally written by Micawber:

I have a sentimental attachment to democracy, myself.
Bwahahahaha! You would trust common people to govern themselves? Preposterous! However, I have seen arguments for democracy that have compelled me, and it does seem to work in the world we live in.

But these are realms of chitrach and vlish! The people need emperors and kings to keep them safe! Without us, they are a mindless rabble. I'm only doing what I believe is right.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #18
quote:
Originally written by Micawber:

the Geneforge creates a great imbalance in the skills and abilities of the people who use it compared to everyone else. People will always seek to exploit that imbalance to give themselves greater power.
Once again, what is the alternative? The world as we know it is based on the unequal distribution of power. If one person were to be supreme, it could be the end of war. If multiple people use the geneforge, hopefully, you would have a Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) situation, similar to the cold war. Each side would strive to perfect themselves until, hopefully, they become enlightened, and throw aside their arms. For shapers have the ability to alter the mind as well as the body, they’ve just yet to perfect the former.

As for alternatives: communism? No, communism doesn't work. Killing off anyone who has more power than anyone else? Ever read Harrison Bergeron? That‘s not pretty either.

The strongest must rule, thus it has ever been.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Diablo Inspired? in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #0
Has anyone ever felt that Avernum 4 has a very Diabloesque feel to it? It is almost as if Jeff Vogel was inspired by or had the game in mind when he created Avernum 4. It's the whole continuous world thing. It is very similar to Diablo 2. The way you leave town and immediately start hacking and slashing your way down the road, clearing out enemies is very similar to Diablo's style. So is the in-town healing. Anyone else notice similarities? This is not a bad thing. Diablo 2 is one of the top three or so games of all time, not a bad source to draw inspiration from.

The same can be said for other Spiderweb games. Anyone else think that the Geneforge series drew some aspects from the Fallout series? An example would be the way that walking is in real time, while combat is turn based. Again, an excellent game to draw inspiration from. Fallout 2 is probably another one of the top three games of all time.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Avernum V ideas in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #277
But in the Exile series, didn't any items on the ground disappear whenever you left the zone and came back? I seem to remember picking up all the garbage in my house at Lorelei only to see it had all grown back when I returned. I should fire the maid.

As long as I can put my precious things in chests, I am content.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #16
Terribly sorry, but you misunderstand me. I am being quite serious. Scientific research and advancement always requires some kind of risks. Since you seem interested in real world examples, I shall name a few.

The Age of Enlightenment led to many ideas that were a great danger to society. New ideas that went against the dogma of the church were particularly threatening, such as the idea that the solar system was heliocentric. New ideas led to major wars and conflicts that exist even today. Never the less, these once 'dangerous' ideas are now vital for the way of life we all enjoy today. Would you prefer if doctor still bled you whenever you grow ill? Perhaps one day the shapers will regret throwing away the canisters and geneforge when they realize what a benefit they would have been. In the short run, yes, using the geneforge results in disaster. But what of the long run?

Sometimes, it depends on the circumstances. During World War 2, new advancements were made in all areas of science, most importantly the weapons. Atomic bomb tests happened on the United States’ own soil. As for the world of Geneforge: they are not so technically advanced, so they can not be expected to handle things as safely as the Americans, or even the Soviets, did.

Perhaps you do not approve of the use of a geneforge during a time of peace. But may I ask you this: would you approve of the use of one now that the world is entering a time of war? It does not matter which side you choose. The question is, would you use the geneforge to save the way of life you know from those that would destroy it?

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #13
quote:
Originally written by Drakefyre:

I wish you had your karma visible because I would definitely rate you 5 stars right now.
As an emperor, I know that allowing yourself to be evaluated by the public is a path to certain downfall. I am, however, much honored by your comment.

quote:
Originally written by Chairface Chippendale:

The only problem is, whether made out of noble intentions or not, using the Geneforge turns you into power hungry megalomaniac with a tendency to go into fits of rage and destroy anything moving in sight.

The power a Geneforge can offer may seem tempting, but no good will come of it no matter who uses it.

The geneforge has some bugs to be worked out, sure. But the only way to make progress is to make due with what you have. Perhaps one day the geneforge could be perfected, and then used to create a more enlightened kind of shaper. Until then, those not blessed by the geneforge will just have to learn not to anger those of us who are.

The alternative is to have the society and its technology stagnate, which seems to be the path the Shaper Council has chosen. This is a foolish path and will one day lead to them being overtaken by a force that is not afraid of progress. Oh, wait, that's what is happening right now! Rebellion! *shudders* An emperor's worst nightmare.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Story LIne in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #27
Running and hiding does not sound very shaper-like. Unless you are an agent, you should feel obligated to never show your enemies the slightest sign of weakness or cowardice, no matter how pragmatic it may be.

Then again, this might be the canisters talking.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #10
I would never suggest that just anyone would have access to devices as powerful as the geneforge. After all, that would make the whole process less special, less craved by the masses. It should be a goal that is worked towards, not simply given up.
The geneforge would only be open to those worthy of its use. Who is the most worthy? Why, those with the power to take it, of course! I figure if just any old adventurer ( such as your character in the games) is powerful enough to simply reach a geneforge given their significant defenses, they have a right to use it. Or... destroy it if they should see fit. But that would be a foolish waste.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #4
quote:
Originally written by the Great Potato:

If it's out in the open you get more people trying their hand at making geneforges and augmenting serviles and all that mess. Better to keep it with people who know what they're doing.
This is exactly why everything should be out in the open. Serviles are terrible the way that they are; they should be augmented more often. Or better yet, why use serviles at all when you can use drakons?

I would lose control, you say? Not if there were more geneforges! Just imagine, that kind of power open to all those willing to take it. The world would surely be a better place. No more of this rogue creations nonsense. We would put them in their place. Them, and the Sholai, too.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
which game is the best? in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #4
Avernum is the superior of the two series. Even though I preferred Exile III in the Exile series, Avernum 3 simple didn't have the same feel. So in the Avernum series Avernum 2 is the best.

I voted Geneforge 2 for good measure.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Story LIne in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #19
quote:
Originally written by Dikiyoba:

So, do you always use the Geneforge in G1 then?
Naturally. I don't understand why anyone would not. That's really the only thing Geneforge 2 and 3 are sorely missing.

Please tell me, what is so alluring about Shanti? She is just as arrogant as any other shaper, yet she fears the full potential of shaping powers. If you guys like the mysterious reclusive type characters so much, Phariton would be by far the best. Another point for Geneforge 2.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Story LIne in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #16
Geneforge 2 clearly has the superior plot. The first one was the cliché abandoned forbidden experiments plot, lame. The only good thing about it was that since it was the first in the series, all the shaping concepts were new.
Geneforge 2 had the greatest character the in the series yet: Barzahl! This was truly a great man. He realized the potential of shaping powers, used them to change even the geography of the land. Sure he was insane, but that's what made it the best plot in the series. Shanti? She was just another mindless pawn of the Shapers, not even worthy of mention.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00

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