Profile for Emperor Tullegolar


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How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #4
quote:
Originally written by Niemand:

My answer to 'how would I do it better' with regards to A4 specifically would pretty simply be: no A4.
Wow. You think that Avernum 4 was so bad that you would rather it didn't exist? Ouch. Come on, it had new monsters, it took place in Avernum, even Rentar was a little different.

quote:
Originally written by *i:

Actually have real living breathing characters rather than 1D caricatures resembling people.
My question was more plot related but... ah, I see what you mean!

I think Avernum 4 did have such characters! Look at Rentar. When she first finds out about you, she doesn't think much of you. Later, she is annoyed to see how far you make it. You can feel her pain and frustration as she loses battle after battle against you. You chase her across the world, taking on everything she can throw at you. She becomes your nemesis, and you become hers. By the time you have the final confrontation, she is practically a member of the party. That, my friend, is a living, breathing character.

Edit: To respond to Kelandon without double posting.

Rentar was too deep character. I am sorry you seem to have missed out on that whole element of the plot. Rentar was constantly struggling with the values of her people versus the actual consensus of them. She felt she had a duty to avenge the crystal souls, but when she realized she had gone to far, her honor would not allow her to turn back. She had to constantly deal with her new crusade, which was all she had left, while at the same time be torn up inside by the fact that her own people did not support her. What character in Nethergate is so deep, may I ask?

[ Sunday, September 10, 2006 20:37: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ]

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #0
I've noticed that bashing the plots of Spiderweb games is sort of the national pass-time around here. You all seem to hate the plots that involve plagues of monsters led by an evil overlord. While I disagree with your views, I am curious to know, how would you do it better?

The plagues of monsters plot is the ideal plot for the style in which Jeff does his games. Let’s assume that any good game has a variety of enemies culminating in an epic boss battle in the end, with few exceptions. Does it not make sense then to use the plagues of monsters script? You get to fight all kinds of monsters, each with their own bosses or puzzles that must be conquered in order to beat them. And then, in the end, it finishes you off with a battle against a boss worthy of legends. Few games can pull of using the same end boss twice in a row, but Avernum 3 and 4 did it. Rentar is up there with Diablo and Ganondorf as one of the greatest bosses of all time.

But this is just my own humble, Imperial opinion. For those of you that really don't like the setup, how would you do it differently? What plot would you create that has both a variety of different monsters and an epic final battle at the end?

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Because it's been forever since the last one in General
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #40
Age: 19
Height: 180cm
Hair Color: Brown
Eye Color: Brown

Do you ...
Have a tattoo? Nonsense.
Have any piercings? Stupid.
Have a bf/gf? Behind every great man there is a...
Like thunderstorms? They too often lead to no electricity where I live. So no.
Ever stop using the computer? I get paid to use the computer.

Have you/Do you have...
Considered a life of crime? I would much sooner be the one writting the laws.
Split personalities? No, thank god. They probably wouldn't get along.
Obsessions? They are what gives me strength and focus.

Right now...
Current clothes: Kimono.
Current mood: Bored enough to be filling this out, apparently.
Current music: Corvus Corax.
Current annoyance: I'm not one of those people that constantly needs to be complaining about something or other.
Current thing you should be doing: No one tells me what to do.

Favorite...
Drink: Pink milk.
Color: Black.
Candy: Malt balls.
Movie: As of earlier today, The Protector, go see it right now.
Person to talk to: My Empress.

Do you perfer...
McDonalds or Burger King? Burger King for burgers, McDonald's for fries.
Root Beer or Dr Pepper? Root Beer, nectar of the gods.
Sunshine or Rain? Sunshine, anyone who says something different is just trying to be spooky or mysterious.
Spring or Fall? I'm allergic to both... Fall has more holidays.
Winter or Summer? Winter, because I hate the cold. Oh, you thought I meant outside?
Vanilla or Chocolate? Vanilla, but I appreciate variety in life.
Lights on or Off? On, why would anyone say off unless they were horribly ugly or deformed?

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Jeff, Valorim was cool!! in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #26
Good. Avernum should take place in caves. However, a spin-off game called Empire might not be such a bad idea. For the Empire!

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
GOOGLE is GOD!! in General
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #6
quote:
Originally written by Emperorking:

Microsoft is their satan.
This gets my Emperor's Seal of Approval™.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
GOOGLE is GOD!! in General
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #4
Does this make AOL satan?

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Jeff, Valorim was cool!! in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #22
Maybe they'd eat you, but I would show them who's boss. If giant lizards can be tamed, why not alien beasts? You'd just need to feed them the odd goblin here and there. There's plenty of those morsels to go around.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #60
quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

Even assuming that others have a right in principle to attempt to overthrow you, why on earth would you want to help them gain the ability to do so?
I actually answered this before, but this thread is getting so long I can understand if you missed it. The leaders would make basic shaping available to everyone, but they would keep advanced devices, such as the geneforge, to themselves. This way, the government would not be overthrown every five minutes; this would be total chaos. No, they would really need to be incompetent to be brought down.

The geneforge would be the ultimate prize. Though it would make the leaders powerful, they would not be invincible, as the bosses of Geneforge 2 and 3 revealed. The geneforge should be revered, and never taken for granted.

But I'm still giving the subjects the ability to overthrow the government? Yes. It makes for a powerful civilization. It is in a world where everyone seeks to make themselves stronger and better themselves that the greatest advances in technology are made. If you do not believe me, just look at the whole of human history. As for the leaders: best that they be kept on their toes as well.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Jeff, Valorim was cool!! in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #20
quote:
Originally written by Not a Republic:

A team could do some of the grunt work for Jeff, but he seems like the kind of person who would rather do it himself anyway.
That's good enough for me.

As for horses: with the date and time removed from the game, there doesn't seem to be much point to them now. If we really did want horses in Avernum, I think the best thing to do would be to steal the recipe for alien beasts from Rentar-Ihrno's original keep, they would be great mounts!

As for Nethergate: that game really was different. Almost makes you think it was made by someone other than Jeff. It has so many elements that are completely alien to the Avernum and Geneforge series. My personal favorite is the way the two groups of adventurers race against each other, constantly foiling each other's plans.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Jeff, Valorim was cool!! in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #16
I always imagined the old adventurers died doing what they love best, which would explain why all their legendary equipment is always redistributed throughout Avernum.

As for a new plot, Vahnatai lands sounds like a good idea. New, bizarre alien monsters, plenty of demons, the works. Avernum games really should take place in caves.

I really hope Rentar still lives. Perhaps a new, repaired Rentar would be the one that calls our heroes to the Vahnatai lands in the first place, probably to help her fend off whatever threatens the Vahnatai. How ironic it would be to help the scourge of mankind against enemies that now threaten her people. Or perhaps your party could actually be Vahnatai? Oh, but then I’d miss the nephilim.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #58
I had hoped I wouldn't need to spell things out like this, but if you insist. The rule was, I repeat, "do not wound the prince." Lincoln and McKinley (the early 1900's president as you know him) were not wounded, they were killed. There is a difference. Should a leader be wounded, however, he would be seen as a survivor, a living martyr, a warrior, almost, wounded in the battle that is his leadership. Take Reagan or Pope John Paul II: both had assassination attempts on them, both were amazingly popular.

Tullegolite philosophy believes that anyone can overthrow the government. I don't remember ever saying the leaders could not be attacked. Did you make that up for filler, or did you actually think you could confuse me?

Finally, why would you destroy the geneforge? It is the pinnacle of shaper technology! It is the next step in evolution! To deny this to the world would be tragic crime, the genocide of the future, if you will.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Jeff, Valorim was cool!! in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #10
quote:
Originally written by Garrison:

There are plenty of people with active imaginations who can help in this area, but telling Jeff what to do is not going to solve the problem that he still has to do the nitty-gritty stuff of putting it in.
I guess you are correct, I just always imagined that scripting would go ten times faster if you knew in advance what you were going to script. But then, I'm an emperor, not a game programmer.

As for the perversely rich commissioning idea: I've always said the same thing myself. Only, before going to Jeff, I did promise myself I would buy the rights to Fallout 3 and get that game back on track first.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Jeff, Valorim was cool!! in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #7
I suppose you are correct. It is a pity that Spiderweb cannot get some kind of team together that exists for the sole purpose of creating tiny back stories for towns and provinces and whatnot. They don't have the funds you say? I'd pitch in for free, and I am sure there are a few of you who would as well.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Jeff, Valorim was cool!! in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #5
I am interested to know why you think more would be worse.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #56
As usually, I must disagree on all points. Most, if not all of The Prince can apply to today's world. I would like you to name one of his theories that doesn't. My personal favorite is the rule "do not wound the prince." Just imagine if there was an assassination attempt on George Bush that failed. His popularity would increase ten fold. The movie Bob Roberts was about just this. I recommend that movie.

The primary rule in The Prince was that it was better to be feared than loved, because love is fickle. True. While the people's love of Bush waned, he won the election because people were afraid to change horses in the middle of the stream. Fear always wins. You must remember, The Prince was not a guide on how to be a beloved ruler. It was a guide on how to gain power and keep it.

But perhaps it does not apply to the Geneforge world, after all. If anything, I think Machiavelli would be more harsh when it comes to shaping than he was when it came to medieval rulership. He would be a Barzite, undoubtedly. He would say take all the power you can get as fast as you can. I do not agree with this. But then, I am no Machiavelli. I am Tullegolar.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Character Names in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #47
quote:
Originally written by Slarty:

That reminds me. Was anyone else weirded out when they met the mage named Erika in G3 (in Greiner's Camp)?
Yes! I especially liked it when she fought with you (or against you) later on. That Erika, always fighting for what she believes in. I was going to propose to Erika Redmark, but then she was killed. Now, I think I might propose to the one who killed her.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #54
quote:
Originally written by Micawber:

Tullegolite bah. Machiavellian bah. Don't dignify this philosophy with a fancy name. This is pure aggression. 'Winning is all that matters', 'we must have this in case the others get it', 'my nuclear weapon is bigger than yours'. Ever watch Dr Strangelove?
Dr. Strangelove was a brilliant film.

Unfortunately, the ways of Machiavelli and myself take the world for what it is, resulting in our unpopularity. Sure, it would be great if everyone would throw down their weapons and seek a higher path, but this is not going to happen. You must be realistic, you must see thing for how they really are and make due with that. The world is evil, people only ever seek to benefit their own situation, and I am merely trying to create a philosophy that takes these facts into account. If you choose a higher path, I will be proud. But don't expect others to be as understanding as I. They will cut you in half the second you lower your weapon. Don't worry, though, I'll name the "Micawber Memorial Geneforge Research Facility" after you when you're gone.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #52
Incorrect. I am the only one, it seems, that does think about the long term repercussions. While everyone else is concerned with what will happen in the the short term, which includes war, destruction, and chaos, I am the one that truly sees the whole picture, the new advancements, new ways of thinking, and new ways of living. I am surprised you believe the opposite.

A more plausible argument for you would have been that Tullegolites not care about the means to the end. This is true, we don’t.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #50
Everyone does have access to nuclear technology, you just have to know where to look. Once again, it is the matter of having the means. If you actually have the connections and the cold hard cash to obtain your very own nuclear warhead, then you are probably worthy of being considered a one man nation. The governments that were unable to stop you must now consider you their equal.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Idea for realsing creations in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #54
quote:
Originally written by Drakefyre:

Battle Alphas are shaped to not be able to breed, but naturally can.
What does this mean? Did battle alphas exists in nature before they were used as a shaping template?

Another interesting question: can creations evolve over time?

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #48
quote:
Originally written by Goldman N. King:

I believe that anyone should be allowed to shape. However that doesn't mean that everyone should be forced to learn. Also when it comes to experimenting Shaping that should be strictly controlled by the current government. Anyone believed to be experimenting without careful supervision by the government should be murdered. No questions asked.
I never said they should be forced, merely given opportunities. Common farmers would be given the knowledge, but hardly any means, such as vital shaping equipment. If they are good enough, they will not need said equipment, and they will produce results regardless. This will earn the government's recognition, and this way even a commoner can prosper without becoming huge threat first. If a commoner does somehow become a huge threat without equipment, this commoner may very well be the next emperor.

As for experimentation, that should be a fundamental right as well. If the government was the sole authority on shaping experiments, it would lead to a government just as conservative as the Shaper Council, which is not the way of the Tullegolite. Why stifle creativity? Let the people experiment as best they can, so long as it is never presents a threat to society. Seeing as common people will have limited means available to them, such as no geneforge and limited essence, the threat should be minimal. If ever great trouble somehow arises anyway, the prodigy should first be given an opportunity to work for the government. Should they refuse, only then should the murders commence.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #46
Once again, if the government can not take control of the situation, then they must be overthrown. But what if there is no one alive capable of repairing a certain problem, such as a new disease? Well, that's an easy one. I hope that you know by now what how I would answer that question.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #44
I do not believe that annihilation was ever imminent during the Cold War. Let us take the incident that brought the world the closest it ever came to an actual nuclear holocaust: the Cuban Missile Crisis. At the end of that whole episode, Kennedy called the Soviet's bluff, and they proved to be just as cowardly when it came to using the bomb as you are when it comes to using the geneforge. It does not take a historian to see this. Even the Soviets, the most unpredictable regime in the modern era, failed to push the button. If they are not the best analogy we have to a canister user, then I am afraid I can not think of a better one.

As for the common farmers using the secrets available to them, this sounds only fair. Everyone should have an equal opportunity to try their hand at shaping. But you thought I disagreed with the beliefs of the Barzites? I do. Should someone misuse their shaping abilities or simply be terrible at using them, the government then has the duty to take those abilities away from the offender, slay them, if necessary. It would probably only take a few violent examples to make the message clear. Do not feel sorry for them, for they abused the gifts that were given to them.

If the government is unable to control a couple of hicks out in the woods shaping battle alphas, then that government has lost control, and must be overthrown. If said hicks are the ones that do the overthrowing, then so be it, for they have proven themselves worthy, and it is now their right to try their hand at ruling. Should they fail al well, it is now your duty to overthrow them and take the realm for yourself. Thus is the way of the Tullegolite.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
What have you been reading lately? in General
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #89
I must recommend the book Three Kingdoms by Luo Guanzhong. It reads like an epic fantasy, even though it is actually a historical novel. The funny thing about ancient Chinese history is that it tends to merge historical events with mythical ones, making for a good story. You may have trouble finding a copy, however, as they don't seem to appreciate Asian literature much in the Western world.

Ever play dynasty warriors? That game is loosely based on this book.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Avernum 4 Plot (possible spoilers) in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #5
I am fairly certain Hawthorne does not come back, though the Darkside Loyalists do follow his teachings. Poor Garzahd, on the other hand, does. Rentar-Ihrno found his body at Grah-Hoth's/Garzahd's/Renter's new fortress. She remembered how it was he that stole the crystal souls in the first place and thus she wanted him to suffer much more rather than rest in peace. She brought him back, and when you meet him, he is in a constant state of anguish and he begs you to kill him again. Whether you want to or not, you do, and he "explodes in a comical spray of bones, rags, and dust."

There are other old characters that make return appearances as well. There is much more than what has already been said. You really should play the whole game, I think you'd enjoy it.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00

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