Profile for Emperor Tullegolar


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Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #158
It matters not. In the Taker endings for Geneforge 2 and 3, many drakons use the geneforges, and they proceed to act with surprising unity and efficiently to battle the shapers. If what everyone in this thread is saying would happen happened, then they would not be able to control themselves, they would fight among themselves, and they would turn their own civilization to ruin, which they did not. They did something right with their geneforge that Danette did wrong with hers.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #156
Rrrg. If you try to make this argument spiritual I'm going to end up offending someone. I'll just pretend you didn't say that.

Yes, human body parts floating around in the geneforge. We would need pieces of all the best specimens the word has to offer! Some parts of Danette, a little bit of Lord Rahul, maybe some Barzahl (not his brain though), in fact, the entire Shaper Council would do. Hmm, whose brains would we use? That is the most important part, as using the proper brain would probably be the key to not going insane. Hmm...

Edit: Nioca: Drakon have a strong will only in that they can resist the control of others. The player's encounters with drakons, however, show that drakons can rarely control themselves. Imagine this inability to control themselves magnified by the geneforge, and yet this failed to happen in Geneforge 2 and 3.

[ Wednesday, September 27, 2006 15:42: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ]

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Factions in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #25
Everyone: Dikiyoba says no one shares my belief that things should be returned to the way they were. However, this thread (edit: the shapers keeping secrets thread, not this one) has shown that most people here seem to believe that the shapers should keep their secrets to themselves rather than allow them to be generally known to the public. The Awakened represent a failure of this ideology. The only way for the shapers to keep their secrets is if they continue their policy of shaper superiority over other humans and over creations. So you must make your choice: are you conservative shapers, or do you truly believe in equality for all? Or are you all hypocrites that think the serviles should be treated as equals as long as they do not seek to know shaper secrets?

[ Wednesday, September 27, 2006 15:00: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ]

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #153
You would think that a strong will would make one even more crazy. I do not think the drakons are smarter than humans, if anything, they are more unpredictable. However, you were right when you said their geneforges were different from the original one. As I said earlier in this threat, I believe the original geneforge was incomplete, whereas the drakons actually finished theirs. I long to see a completed human geneforge... and to use it.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Jive Turkey in General
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #2
One small step closer to a world government. This gets my Emperor's Seal of Approval™.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Spell Poll in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #14
I always got the impression that fireblast did the most damage. Maybe I just liked the way it looked, it looked damaging. Arcane blow looked cheesy and purple. Red or blue would do more damage than purple in real life.

What about demons that are immune to fire? Well, that's why repel spirit is the best priest spell.

Best overall spells are unlock and dispel barrier. What would I do without them?

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Mage with No Name in The Avernum Trilogy
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #13
Uh, I found him. So... thread accomplished?

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Factions in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #20
Dikiyoba: Midgets are not proportional small humans, just look at one. You are right, however, in saying brain size probably matters little in determining intelligence, whales come to mind. I suppose it depends on how complex the brain is. Though I have no hard evidence to support this, I would say that serviles are made with simpler brains, as that would be a logical thing for shapers to give them.

Nioca: The way I see it, slavery is a perfectly reasonable practice. No, it should not be based on race or gender or anything like that. Rather, people who commit crimes or are otherwise useless to society are the ones that should be enslaved.

*i: Don't take this the wrong way, but, yes, an autistic midget is simply not as effective as an average human. Are they fit only to serve? I’d say yes, but an autistic midget would probably not even make a decent servant.

Oscar Wilde: Learned Darian was not meant to be. It is only because of the stupidity of the Shaper Council that he(she?) and all the Awakened even exist. Darian should die, before more serviles can be contaminated.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #151
Crafterlord: It could never be democratic, it would have to be a system based on power. Democratic leaders are weak, and a republic would never be able to get anything done, whereas someone who got their position through feats of strength would be, needless to say, stronger, also more efficient He could still be overthrown by someone stronger still or a even group of people, so it is democratic in some sense, only you vote with your power, which is appropriate to the world of geneforge.

quote:
Originally written by Nioca:

The only real reason they want you back is because you're powerful, and could help them futher their cause.
That sounds reasonable, but you said they were unreasonable. My point is that the drakon geneforges didn't seem to make the drakons that used them crazy. This opens up the possibility of a human geneforge that doesn't make you crazy.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Factions in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #15
quote:
Originally written by *i:

As for serviles, relative to what measure of inferiority? Care to quantify this inequality so we can actually measure it?
quote:
Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:

They are weak, small brained, greedy, and more often hostile than not. They can’t even learn magic without either help from a superior human, or by going completely crazy.
I think we can agree that they are weaker, as they are so small and unable to learn magic on their own. Since they are so small, they must have proportional sized brains (they are not to be confused with midgets, who have small bodies but normal sized heads). They are very greedy, having the audacity to charge you for their services. Here you are trying to save the world, and they put their own interests first. After all, all you ever did for them was give them life. They have no common sense, no sense of humanity. The Takers are horribly violent, and the only reason the Awakened don't kill you outright is because they are too weak and cowardly to do so. Serviles were created to serve, they can not be trusted to have equal rights, because they will abuse them.

Dragoon: I don't think asking does involve speaking, which is why we must oppress even their thoughts by shaping fear and the desire to serve deep into them. When all else fails, making them dumber and super-dependant works, as well.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Factions in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #12
I'm glad someone got the joke. I don't know who Gobineau is, I actually had Thomas Jefferson in mind when I wrote that.

Seriously though, serviles are not human. All men are all created equal. However, serviles were literally created inferior.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Factions in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #10
Well, then, your lucky I missed out on that debate. I would have kept it going forever. A pity.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #148
They don't remain cruel and unreasonable. Like I said, they let you live among them in peace. In Geneforge 3, they even care enough about you to rescue you from the Shapers in the ending. It would seem the geneforge did not magnify their hatred, but opened their eyes to the fact that a Shaper could be a friend.

You all seem to use the argument that a geneforge would lead to gods battling against each other. I suppose this is a good point. You have convinced me of the following: no more than one person at a time should have geneforge powers. It has been proven that these powers do not make one invincible, so I suspect a crappy ruler would be overthrown if necessary. Otherwise, that ruler would pretty much spend his time perfecting himself, and he would expect the same of his subjects.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #146
Even if they did sneak back the experiments were still left there for anyone to find. I can't help but wonder why on earth the Council did not take more direct control over such powerful and important research. Did they actually think it was more than they could handle? Did there bottomless arrogance actually fail them?

As for magnifying personality disorders: I must point out the Drakons in Geneforge 2 and 3. They went from being cruel and unreasonable to actually deciding to spare your life after you helped them. This is good evidence for the possibility of perfecting geneforge technology to not make you crazy.

Edit: Nioca: You say it takes power to get power. This is why the geneforge must be used. The canisters are not a middle ground, they are obsolete.

As for people being gods: who says they can not be benevolent ones? Once they have all the power in the world they will have little else to do other than reflect on such things as philosophy and good leadership. Only then will they be truly perfect, true gods.

[ Tuesday, September 26, 2006 17:19: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ]

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Factions in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #7
Preposterous! What if there was such a thing as artificial intelligence? Would you give computers rights as well? Serviles may be able to grasp certain ideas, but surely you can recognize the inferiority. They are weak, small brained, greedy, and more often hostile than not. They can’t even learn magic without either help from a superior human, or by going completely crazy. How can these things be treated as equals?

As for drakons treating drayks like lesser being. Well, drayks are lesser beings! They are weaker and less intelligent. But it matters not, what do I care what a drakon thinks? Drakons are inferior to shapers.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #143
What's this? I have erred? You got me. I suppose what I meant to say was that the mistake was the way the Shapers left the geneforge behind to be found by outsiders in the first place.

You are correct, of course, Trajkov is the best example of the geneforge being used the way it was meant to be. He was a great man.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Factions in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #4
I am interested to know why you all think serviles should be treated as equals.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #140
Chairface: What do you have against science? You say you only hate the science with negative consequences? All science has negative consequences, whether it be the time and money invested in it or something more... fatal. We must deal with these things.

You are right, however, when you say the geneforge was created by those seeking power rather than enlightenment. But, can the same not be said for all science? Almost everything ever invented had profit as one of the primary motivations. If they actually benefit society as well, it’s a bonus. The geneforge has too many possible benefits to be called a total failure just because of one mistake, that mistake being Trajkov.

Also, who says megalomaniacs are a bad thing? Alexander the Great took over the world once. After he did this, he made it a policy to spread knowledge all over his Empire, not to keep it from everyone, like you suggest. It is because of him that all the knowledge of the Greeks survived the Dark Ages.

Testing for Canisters: I do not approve of canisters, for they are not strong enough. Also, Randomizer is right, could the testers be bribed? Could someone fake sanity? Most likely. Canisters are not the answer. More research into the geneforge is what's needed! And who better to build new and improved geneforges than someone who has partaken of one themselves?

Cult: An interesting thought, though I believe no cult would be necessary. In the world of Geneforge, the only gods the people will ever need are themselves.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Factions in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #0
Which faction out of all the Geneforge games do you find most convincing? By convincing I mean which one do you really feel you wound most like to join, and why? Though I have beaten the games with every possible ending, I was never quite satisfied with the way things worked out. I found no faction particularly convincing, yet I was unable to gain the power and prestige I desired by working alone.

I suppose that I prefer the Obeyers. I approve of their groveling. However, the Obeyers of Sucia were contaminated. I would feel obligated to give them rights if they actually had the intelligence and courage to ask me for them, and so I feel creations should be destroyed before they are capable of such things. I also use the geneforge, simply because I hate the Shaper Council and their backward ways. I long to see them fall. Unfortunately, it seems the only ones capable of bringing them down are the Takers, and I would side with the Shapers as the lesser of two evils in that conflict. It is also unfortunate that the original geneforge was so flawed. Not that it matters that much, as I don’t really act any less like myself when I’m under its influence.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #114
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

According to nsf.gov's page on the subject
Here is the link... provided by yourself just a few posts ago. Edit: If you have trouble finding it is the second bullet from the top.

If you have further comments on my attitude, please send me a private message. I find it very inappropriate to discuss these things in public.

[ Tuesday, September 19, 2006 08:29: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ]

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Mage with No Name in The Avernum Trilogy
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #5
I stopped the slimes with only minimal damage done to the city of Kriszan. His room seems intact, so he should still be alive. Is it true that 1/3rd of the time he is in neither location? If that is the case, then I feel much better about finding him later.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #112
Kelandon: Yes, it is from the same site. Take note that one percentage is how much research industry does, the other is how much they pay for.

By the way, I follow your rules. If I want to be arrogant, that is my business.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #110
I am beginning to think that the question we are trying to answer has far to many facets. While on one hand, I think that the fact that 63% of all research being paid for by industry is good enough to conclude that industry pays for most research. On the other hand, you think that the fact that 55% of research done by universities being paid for by the government is reason enough to conclude that government pays for most research. While I think my argument is clearly superior, it is difficult to argue against either.

*i: Your whining really annoys me. Cut it out please.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #106
Irrelevant. Who does the research is not in question here. Your forgot what the topic was after only three posts, a new record. The matter at hand is funding for research, remember? And your statistics say... industry wins. I win. I always win. I am the Emperor.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #104
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

industry does the majority (68%)... it is also pretty fair to say that most science in the present-day U.S. is funded by the government
Uh, so which is it? Since you seem to be fine with saying both do the majority, it seems I'm going to have to draw my own conclusion. You statistics clearly state that industry does the most R&D and it also puts the most money towards it. Industry wins, I told you. Fat businessmen seeking to benefit themselves equals progress.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00

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