Profile for Emperor Tullegolar


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Soon there will be no need to do this in General
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #25
Of course Septembers numbers are the lowest... the month is only half over. Or is it normal to calculate the months posts halfway through?

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Mage with No Name in The Avernum Trilogy
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #0
This board has no search option so forgive me if this was asked before.

The Mage with No Name for the Ring of Endless Magery quest does not appear in any of my Avernum 3 games. I am familiar with him and where he should appear from Exile III but so far I have played Avernum 3 three times but never got my ring. Why isn't he appearing?

I am aware that he moves from Krizsan to Delan and I know the rooms. I don't think this is a technical problem but if it helps I am running the latest version (though I couldn't find him in earlier versions either) and I have a mac.

Thanks for any help.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #100
Student of Trinity: Very funny. Please tell me then: who funds your research? Since you are blurring the lines between two distinct worlds again, I'll be more specific to the modern era this time, just for you.

I'll bet your research is funded by a multinational corporation. Who owns those? The aristocracy of the modern era, of course. I will admit, they are not only funding scientists because they can, but also because they think they can make even more money from it, but it matters not. Either way, a large amount of investment capital is required, and the best way to get that capital is from people who have a lot of extra money to throw around. In medieval times, this was the Count of Montecristo, today, it's your multinational corporations.

Crafterlord: I believe that technology and new inventions tend to trickle down, no matter what the leader wants. A hundred years ago, the average person having a car was out of the question. However, because the rich were motivated to benefit themselves by making cars cheaper and easier to obtain, it directly benefited the common people as well. Thus, if a leader takes on a policy of rapid progress, it can only benefit everyone, no matter what their standing in the social pyramid may be.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Jeff, Valorim was cool!! in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #29
I wasn't suggesting rewriting Avernum 1-4, Empire would take place on the surface. I suppose that, in order to be at all interesting, it would have to take place before the Empire genocided everyone. Your characters could be the first to explore a new continent. Just imagine, no humans at all. You would be forced to make fragile peace with Nephil or Slith while you surveyed the land for the Empire, totally unknowing of the destruction that would result when they actually come themselves.

While on the topic of exploration, I wonder what a game about the First Expedition would be like. Avernum, with no towns, just lots of monsters. You would have the Orb of Thalni from the start! But... you also be destined die horrible deaths in the end.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #95
Retlaw: Did you hear anything I said? Or are you seriously afraid that the plants that would be specially created to grow in nutrient-free soils would make the soil more nutrient-free than it already is? The Tullegolite philosophy has many holes in it, but this is not one of them.

Crafterlord: What you are describing sounds much like utilitarianism, correct me if I'm wrong. Utilitarianism means, in as few words as possible "greatest amount of happiness for the greatest amount of people." I do not agree with this philosophy.

If you try to spread happiness around more evenly, then those at the top are the ones that lose. You can't have this. Madness? Contemplate this: scientific advancement and progress can only happen if you have an elite class wealthy enough to keep interest in and fund it. Look at human history, the Enlightenment and Scientific Revolution happened because it was during a period in European history where elite became so fat and bored they figured 'hey, let's do science!' So you see, a large gap in the economy is preferable if you want progress in science and technology.

It works out though, because said advances generally lead to a higher standard of living for all, given time.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Crystal Souls in General
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #0
I have often thought about how great it would be to be able to make crystal souls out of people in real life. Naturally, I tend to think of myself, and how it would be a means for me to achieve immortality.

But I have a question for you all. What one person, living or dead, would have as a crystal soul, so that the world could take advantage of their wisdom for the rest of time?

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #91
Sure there is always a possibility of a shaper plant growing out of control, but is it a bad thing to have food growing everywhere? If it suddenly becomes inedible for some reason, then I'm sure the plant in question could easily be wiped out with a simple application of shaper violence. If there is one thing the shapers do well, its destroying things.

As for vlish, they are undoubtedly the tastiest of all shaper creations, even tastier than ornks. The only problem is that they have so little meat on them.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #88
quote:
Originally written by Retlaw May:

No servile could plant in the dead ground that would result from your philosophy.
I suppose you have a point there. There must be some kind of alternate food source...

quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

But serviles taste horrible!
I know, I know. But if what Retlaw here says is true we may have no other choice. Hmm, if we can make battle serviles and exploding serviles, then surely we can make extra meaty serviles that taste like cotton candy.

Edit: Seriously though, you're overthinking this. If the mages of Avernum can find a way to grow food on a solid rock cave floor with no light, then surely the shapers, who specialize in the area of creating new life forms, would be able to create food that grows in a wasteland. Simple as that.

[ Saturday, September 16, 2006 19:32: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ]

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #84
Retlaw: Of course there would be food, that's what serviles are for. Shouldn’t serviles have the same rights that I'm saying all humans should have? Of course not! Preposterous!

Randomizer: The Sholai got more power than they deserved. Tullegolite philosophy believes in basic power for all, but also in earning new powers through feats of strength. The shapers foolishly abandoned the geneforge for anyone to find instead of keeping it to themselves, this was their fault, not mine. As for mistakes, they are inevitable, yet another means of rooting out the weak, there was a cure for that guy's disease, he was just not powerful enough to find it.

*i: Yes, yes yes! The United States is an excellent example of my philosophy in action! They are the ones who were able to rise above all other warring factions (European nations) and take control of the world themselves. Now they make it their duty to keep the world on it's toes, lest they ever be overpowered by another country. They also support overthrowing of the government (elections), and they believe in equal opportunity for all, though not necessarily equal means. My idea government would be more meritocratic the the United State’s current system, however.

I believe that the most powerful factions have a right to deprive the lesser ones of certain things, such as nukes or geneforges. However, should these lesser players succeed in gaining these things anyway, they have earned the right to be on equal ground with the other world leaders. The United States has a right to stop another nation from researching nuclear weapons, but should they do it anyway, they have earned the right. The same applies to geneforges, in my humble Imperial opinion.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #80
Most people couldn't handle it. This is understandable.

Edit: I have been accused, multiple times, in this thread of blurring the line between the Geneforge games and reality. But it seems I am the only one that is really trying to keep these two subjects separate.

[ Friday, September 15, 2006 12:30: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ]

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #121
So you believe that all the Avernums are fundamentally flawed in this way?

Really, they are supposed to be mostly killing things. I like killing things, and if I can get a great plot along the way, great. If you think they are so flawed in a element you deem so important, why do you play them?

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #78
Allow me to say again that I do not approve of canisters, and I only approve of the geneforge because it can be used to reach the next step, which is a refined geneforge that doesn't make you crazy. As for shaping powers destroying the land, I have not seen sufficient evidence of this. Rising and Medab look like nice places to live. Would you rather live in Drypeak? (don't misinterpret this, I am referring to these cities geographically, not politically)

Thuryl: The historical earthly ‘might makes right’ rulers were stupid and weak. Had Japan not attacked the U.S. and Germany not attacked the U.S.S.R., the war would have ended differently. But then look at the world today, I see the United States, which is the uncontested most powerful country in the world, as a ‘might makes right’ nation. They invade whom they please, despite the dissension of the rest of the world and their own citizens. Why? Because they can - I mean... because it's their duty.

Kelandon: Another misinterpretation, read the quote again. I said progress flourishes during times of war, meaning there are many new scientific advancements. Then I said that shaping would allow for surpluses. The shaping concept can’t really be applied to real life.

Chairface: No. Hitler didn't end the depression in Germany by taking money from the Jews and giving to other citizens. Do you really think that was all there was to it? Who taught you history? As for building tanks and whatnot, that gives jobs to the average citizen, doesn't it? When the government purchases weapons, it is increasing the nation's GDP, which also benefits the common citizen. Stalin and Mao did bring industrialization to their nations, no matter what you say. Russia was eventually brought down by the Cold War, but even today they benefit from the industrialization that took place under Stalin. As for China, they produce 90% of everything that Americans buy. The one reason that I am not afraid of a China vs. U.S. War ever breaking out is because neither side wants to lose the trading partner. Finally, the Aztecs would have lines of men, women and children four bodies wide that would stretch on for miles leading up to the tops of their temples where they would all then be sacrificed the removal of the victims heart. Civilized? They sound like genocidal maniacs to me.

quote:
Originally written by Chairface Chippendale:

If research into the Geneforge was opened up and rebellion was encouraged according to your "philosophy," whatever would be left of humanity in Geneforge would live in a barely habitable wasteland, split into tribes warring over secrets and information that would allow their sect to build a better Geneforge than their enemies and crush them so their will reigns supreme.
Wouldn't you want to play that game? I would.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #118
Drakefyre, I am very impressed with your research! One question left, though. Is there ever a reference in the game to an interregnum? Does it actually say that the Council ruled Avernum for some amount of time between the death of Micah and the ascent of Starrus?

Edit: Kelandon: You think Rentar doesn't have a sizable amount of lines? She has three games worth! What character in Avernum hs more screen time than her other than Erika?

[ Friday, September 15, 2006 10:04: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ]

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #73
Wrong. It is in times of warfare that progress flourishes the most. If everyone has shaping powers, how can there not be surpluses? Plenty of delicious ornks, lots of lumber, hordes of serviles to work mines, and tons and tons of magical artifacts!

But all this magic will eventually destroy the land itself? Maybe, but I am confident that shaper ingenuity will prevail, and it can all be repaired with a little effort. If not, then only the weak will really die off. The strongest and smartest will always find a way to survive.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #110
quote:
Originally written by Drakefyre:

quote:
Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:

Second Slith War: Oh... I remember now. How do you know that Micah was already dead at that point? Or is that part of you guys' fan fiction time line?
It's set at a time where Houghton was regent for Starrus - only a few years before Avernum 4.

Could you answer the question I asked?

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #71
Chairface: You say that might makes right governments don't lead to progress? I'll use your own examples: Hitler, he brought Germany out of an economic recession that was far worse than the American Great Depression. Stalin, he brought all farm land under control of the state, causing many peasants to lose their farming jobs. Those peasants then moves to the cities and, using the resulting urbanization, Stalin started the Industrial Revolution in Russia. Mao did something similar, he transformed China from a medieval state to a world industrial power. Conquistadors, they rid the world of the backwards society of the Incas and Aztecs, bringing new technology and ideas to those forsaken lands. Inquisition and Saddam: well, you can't always get it right.

Thuryl: Am I offended at being called a Fascist? No. I am, however, offended by the fact that Hitler and Mussolini are the only examples of Fascist governments and that they are the ones everyone associates with the word. They both had massive shortcomings, and in the end, they were too weak and stupid to maintain control in Europe.

Disclaimer: I do not approve of the destruction of the Native American Empires or of the Holocaust. It disappoints me that those that carried out these acts do fit my description for the perfect government, but keep in mind that these governments all failed in the end and were replaced by a superior power. That is the way of the Tullegolite.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #107
Second Slith War: Oh... I remember now. How do you know that Micah was already dead at that point? Or is that part of you guys' fan fiction time line?

Randomizer: I agree fully with all your points. I think that such city states would easily fall prey to a warlord trying to take over Avernum. Avernum cities are notorious for... falling. The people are easily discouraged. For Chevyn!

Fallout: Like I said before, the ending is always more satisfying when you can put a face to what your fighting against. It would not have been the same without Horrigan.

Violent Confrontation: Avernum 1, though you could take any path you wanted, was designed so that Hawthorne should have been the final confrontation. Even if you really are going to be anal and say the game doesn't end unless you escape to the surface: the final gauntlet seemed pretty violent to me.

Kelandon: As far as I am concerned, Rentar is a detailed villain. I have given you the reasons why I think this is so. You disagreed with me without explaining what you think a detailed villain is.

Board Game Villain: The Spy in Stratego.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #98
Drakefyre: Forgive me, I did not mean you specifically when I said you beat Jeff's plot to death, I should have specified.

Second Slith War? How did I manage to miss this? Did I miss some kind of tome somewhere that explains this war? Now I'm burning with curiosity... where is this war mentioned?

Alorael: You say Micah had worked piled on him, how does that make him not a monarch? It seems he was actually running things. As for the crown not taking any action during Avernum 4, afraid you’ve made an error there. Forget Almaria?

But Starrus didn't send the troops to Almaria, Houghton did. Oh, good point. So a puppeteer can overstep his boundaries after all! Almaria, even under the chaotic influence of the shade, failed to stand up against the king's advisor. Is my idea really so implausible now?

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shapers keeping secrets in Geneforge Series
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #66
Finally someone who understands! Thanks you for your most well thought out points, Sir Toast. However, I do not like the direction you and Randomizer are headed towards. You mean I actually have to work in order to get the power and the sanity? Ouch. I would much rather put all resources towards creating a refined Geneforge. But that is much work as well? Yes, but it is work I could force upon other people, and then take all the instant gratification for myself.

But that is just my humble Imperial opinion. As far as the game and its plot goes, taking the time to learn to use the geneforge properly would be a worthy addition, since the point of a game is not instant gratification but the hard work involved in reaching such goals. This idea gets a most reluctant Emperor’s Seal of Approval™.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #95
quote:
Originally written by Drakefyre:

Would it have survived if he had stepped down after creating it?
Had he stepped down before defeating Grah-Hoth, no. Had he stepped down before the Empire War, certainly not. All the descriptions of King Micah describe him as overworked. Perhaps we have underestimated how much power he has. The Council was able to rule for a short time, yes, but this was during a most unorthodox period of peace. The council would have fallen apart had they still be ruling when Rentar returned. Why? Without a central leader, each mayor would have been more concerned with his/her own town to form an organized resistance. Speculation? Common sense.

Starrus and Houghton took Micah's place, so king and figurehead/puppeteer have proven interchangeable. As for Chevyn being passable as a figurehead. I suppose that is the deal breaker for you, then. I am merely trying to think up an interesting possible alternate Avernum plot. Unfortunately, you are doing to me what you did to Jeff: trying to beat it to death instead of being constructive. A pity. I still like the idea.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #93
So you admit that such a leader is necessary, and that Avernum would have perished without him? Very good. My point is made. I also believe that such virtuous leaders and the figurehead/puppeteer combination are interchangeable. Your thoughts?

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #91
Your were right when you said it was strange that the citizens of Avernum ended up with a monarchy as their form of government. Why would they do that? Oh yeah, it's because they are peasants and they are incapable of functioning on their own without someone to lead them. Sure they once scoffed at authority, but that generation is dying. And no, that trait does not pass on genetically. Just look at Australia, the one time penal colony which now has one of the lowest crime rates on the planet. No matter how hardy Avernites may be, any group of people can, with the proper motivation, be lead around like sheep. There will be those that see what is happening and resist, but as the Cultural Revolution in China showed, they can be silenced.

As for Horrigan, the game would definitely be less satisfying without him. It is always good to be able to put a face with evil actions. Do we blame Germany for the Holocaust? No, we blame Hitler, even though many were at fault.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #88
quote:
Originally written by Drakefyre:

Pretty much everyone knew Chevyn was a simpleton. The games state this.
Where? Do I actually expect you to look up exactly where this was stated? Yes.

As for people being dangerous in Avernum. What do we really know about them? They are not too smart, not that it's their fault, but they are the equivalent of medieval peasants. That original generation of exiles... aren't they dying off? I think a new generation is standing by waiting to be molded, waiting to be told what to do. After all, if you in a cave surrounded by things that want to kill you, who are you going to go to? Chevyn the True Price offers you his protection.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #86
Here is how I would take the throne of Avernum as the leader of the Darkside Loyalists. I assume that the leader's identity is kept very secret, and that he is also very, very powerful. I also assume that Chevyn's ineptitude, while well known by Castle officials, was kept largely from the public. This is not too far fetched for you, is it? I would then pick up Chevyn, wherever he is, and get to work.

First, I use my power over bandits. Now is the time to act, make Starrus look like he is losing control of Avernum. Second, start paying of and/or killing the Mayors of Avernum. If they support me, perfect, if not, assassinations are common enough. Third, spread the propaganda. Tell the people that Starrus usurped the throne of Avernum from the rightful heir, the first born son. Now, the rightful ruler has returned. After all, they would think if Chevyn is leading this revolt then he must be pretty smart. Few would be able to realize I was pulling his strings. Finally, have a charismatic general lead the march on the Castle in the name of the True Prince!

If it works, awesome. If those blasted adventurers get in my way, well... it makes for a good plot, doesn’t it? I'm letting my imagination run wild? This is the "how would you do it" thread! You must be looking for the "how was it done" thread. I don’t post in that one.

Edit: Oh, the people of Avernum. What makes you say they are dangerous? Most were just people who either said the wrong thing or thought the wrong thought. If there are any dangerous Avernites at all, they are in the Abyss. As for the Abyss, I think they would jump at the chance to help me overthrow the King of Avernum! There you have it, the most dangerous people in Avernum are taken care on.

[ Wednesday, September 13, 2006 16:00: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ]

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #83
Alorael: I know there is a difference between leadership and being a figurehead, that's why I said Chevyn would have a puppet master. I thought the Darkside Loyalist leader being this person was a good idea, no one else liked that? As for Garzahd, how was he not the driving force behind the Empire army? As I said before, the entire army could have been crushed to the last man, but if Garzahd had lived, the war would have continued regardless.

The Almighty...: You say that you don't agree with my view of a good plot. That's fine, that is the whole point of this thread. But if you disagree, you are then supposed to give me your idea of a good plot in return. Please do this.

Kelandon: Yes, game villains and novel villains are too inherently different! Your examples made this blatantly obvious! You are welcome to present me with a better example if you can.

Draykfire: I think you give the common people of Avernum too much credit. As long as a king keeps the bandits away, they are not going to try anything. If they did, they would fall into anarchy. I doubt they could even organize to overthrow him in the first place. Could Chevyn keep the bandits away? If the Darkside Loyalist leader was his reagent, he would own the bandits.

Thuryl: Your are becoming confused, though that is to be expected from such a long thread. I explained Horrigan's crimes to show that he was the game's primary antagonist, because someone said Fallout 2 didn’t have one. I never said he was any good at filling that roll, in fact, he really is a crappy final boss. As for every game ending with a violent confrontation: I didn't mean any game. We are in the Avernum forum, are we not? Avernum games must end with a violent confrontation. In Geneforge 1 and 2 you could let some bosses live, but then the endings were not nearly as satisfactory.

Edit: Ash Lael: You don't say? Roses of Reckoning sort of ruined that game for me at the time, but... I'll start working my way through the scenarios you guys recommend this weekend. Forgive me for not being able to comment until then.

[ Wednesday, September 13, 2006 15:13: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ]

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00

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