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Displayed name	Ephesos
Member number	4153
Title	Law Bringer
Postcount	4130
Homepage	http://www.freewebs.com/ephesos
Registered	Friday, March 26 2004 08:00

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Author	Recent posts
The Mountain of Shadows RP in General
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Monday, October 10 2005 20:57 Profile Homepage #350 OoC: One side note, Zephyr. If you do stay in, I personally hope that you deal with evil Caecus yourself. Clean up your own mess, as it were. Looking forward to a reformed storytelling method... -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Ethical Survey in General
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Monday, October 10 2005 20:54 Profile Homepage #14 Hm... I see Drakefyre has acknowledged the inefficiency of the belief polls. Direct response is much clearer, after all. 1) Male. Simple one there. Far from the typical stereotype, though (in my mind, anyway). 2) Not at all. However, as long as nobody tries to convert me (or anyone else, for that matter), I'm fine with religion. I try my level best to respect others' beliefs... after all, closed-mindedness is a hard habit to break, not to mention a very unrewarding one. 3) Trying to be vegetarian, failing miserably. I love buffalo wings way too much. Really, if chicken was a vegetable, I'd be a full vegetarian in an instant. 4) I'll wedge the switch halfway and crash the trolley when it reaches the screwed-up junction, before it hits anyone. 4a) Honestly, I'd flip the switch and go with just killing one person, though it would haunt me for the rest of my life. 4b) Seriously, I'd be so busy agonizing over the problem that it would happen before I could do anything. 5) I'd probably collapse on the ground in a fit of moral confusion and anguish. 5a) Seriously, I'd probably just stare at the accident, too afraid to move. 5b) Or I might jump off myself, and try to land so as to deflect the trolley (I'm not heavy enough to stop it). 6) Too difficult... brain overloading. 6a) Honestly, I'd probably flip it to the senior citizens, on the assumption that they had already lived a nice long life. 6b) See 5b) 7) I seem to remember these trolley problems from a previous thread... -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
The Mountain of Shadows RP in General
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Monday, October 10 2005 16:47 Profile Homepage #347 OoC: I hate to break it to you, but keeping track of Caecus' spirit(s)/reincarnations/arsenal/abilities has been getting annoying. You kept making your character more complex, and forcing bits of the plot to fit him, and that got in the way of everybody else, who just wanted to tell a good story. And personally, I thought you would've gotten some insight from reading everyone else's posts. Instead, it seemed like your character got more unbalanced as you went, almost as if you were un-practicing. You need to simplify a bit, and pay a bit more attention to others' characters... maybe next time. EDIT: Actually, now that I think of it, you did a fairly good job of dropping the Evil Caecus character. Provided that you honestly take our advice to heart, I would personally like to see you finish out the RP (or at least give your character a proper sendoff). Anyway, it would be interesting to see a Caecus/Aerdiu showdown. Just don't warp the plot to fit it. [ Monday, October 10, 2005 16:51: Message edited by: Ephesos ] -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
DOCTOR WHO in General
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Monday, October 10 2005 16:42 Profile Homepage #8 Ah, Blakes 7... another amazing show. And another example of good plots and characters compensating for laughable SFX. It's a shame how it ends, though. Quite depressing (and a bit inconsistent character-wise, really... I mean, why would Avon snap like that?), but still impressively dramatic. Still, I heard something about a revival series, where somebody comes back. Anybody know what became of that? -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
The Mountain of Shadows RP in General
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Monday, October 10 2005 09:55 Profile Homepage #341 OoC: I must agree here. I was really looking forward to seeing how Filbert and Cain worked things out (read: tried to kill each other), and now we're down one very complex character. A nice example of the whole overpowered thing was back when Sequoia dropped a boulder on Caecus, and he initially (before the edited version) shrugged it off and pursued him. I was clearly saying in my posts "time for a bit of solo traveling," but you tried to hunt me down anyway, ignoring the fact that being crushed by a boulder would logically slow anybody down, if not stop them for a while. I honestly thought you were going to try and kill me off for a minute. Not cool. And I did realize that it was just four arms, for the record. I don't know where the other two came up. [ Monday, October 10, 2005 09:58: Message edited by: Ephesos ] -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
The Abominable Photo Thread 3.6 in General
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Sunday, October 9 2005 21:48 Profile Homepage #3 Hm... I can't believe I never posted on one of these. Actually, I can. I didn't have a place to host them from. Huzzah for Facebook! (Me at a St. Louis Cardinals playoff game... it was freakin' awesome. To those of you who have no knowledge of baseball, St. Louis is crazy about our team.) EDIT: Pardon the poor quality, but Facebook has tiny pictures. [ Sunday, October 09, 2005 21:50: Message edited by: Ephesos ] -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
DOCTOR WHO in General
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Sunday, October 9 2005 21:35 Profile Homepage #1 Well, I picked an option as close as I could... while I've never owned any of the episodes, our local library system proved to have quite a few of them. Very good stuff. Amazing what you can do with laughable SFX (and the same quarry) when you've got plot and substance. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
The Spiral Pit and Mertis in The Avernum Trilogy
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Sunday, October 9 2005 19:13 Profile Homepage #1 Perhaps I recall this incorrectly, but I don't think you can. (looks at sig) Whoah... that's a bit disturbing. Are you okay? -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
The Mountain of Shadows RP in General
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Sunday, October 9 2005 19:04 Profile Homepage #335 OoC: Alright, moving on then... IC: Sequoia and Lisha bolted from the cave, back through the enchanted steel doors and into the illusion-rigged chamber. Feeling along the walls, Lisha quickly found a torch bracket and grabbed the unlit torch sitting inside it. A moment later, the cave was cast in a flickering light. Another moment later, they heard the chamber they had run from collapse. The sound was deafening, and nearly knocked Sequoia off his feet, weakened as he already was. "I can't believe it." Sequoia said, staring at the broken halves of his runed staff. He dejectedly slipped the pieces under his cloak, determined to repair it eventually. "I can. And I'd be more worried about the wound on your arm." Lisha said, looking down the passage for signs of the others. Mutely nodding his head, Sequoia tore off a bit of his traveling cloak and tied it tightly around his savaged arm. It still had a bit of strength in it, but not much. Perhaps I can still heal it... he thought dejectedly. He knew that the odds were bad without his staff, but he could always try. He began muttering a spell, closing his eyes and trying to focus as much as humanly possible. Lisha turned to see the druid concentrating. "What are you doing? Your staff is broken!" she practically yelled. I know that, he thought, finishing the spell. Upon opening his eyes, and unwrapping the wound, he saw that it had stopped bleeding, and looked a small step closer to a full heal. Granted, it still looked fairly bad (the slash extended most of the way down his left arm), and the strength was still mostly gone from it, but Sequoia was confident it would be fine eventually. Well, that could've been worse, I suppose... Lisha looked fairly surprised. "I thought you couldn't cast spells withouth the staff!" "Honestly, so did I. I never practiced without it. Still, it's far from my normal ability," the druid said quietly. "Try casting some light." Lisha replied, clearly eager to get rid of the torch. Brother Sequoia focused again, muttering the syllables he had used so often in this mountain. When he finished, his hands began to glow with a bright white light. A few seconds later, they dimmed again. "Try concentrating a bit more." Lisha said. Far from confident, Sequoia closed his eyes and focused his mind again. However, his mind remained locked on the fact that they were stuck in this dismal mountain, currently running from cave collapses, unnatural monstrosities and demented undead. He remembered just how far from the rest of the world they were, just how insane this entire trip was. He wondered if he would ever see sunlight again. Sunlight... his mind drifted back to the long days he had spent hiking through the forests by the coast of the continent. Bright sunny days, with the druid's traveling cloak absorbing the bright, warm rays of light. If only... He finished the spell, certain it would fizzle. However, when he opened his eyes, he saw the golden rays of light his hands now radiated into the cavern. Just like sunlight. Both of them sat there stunned for a minute. "Well, that's better," the druid said plainly, as the two turned their attention to the sounds of approaching footsteps. OoC: I still stand by my decision to leave if the plot gets mangled again, but I'll gladly stick it out until that point. So let's get on with it then... EDIT: Typos and a discontinuity with Sequoia's wound. Fixed 'em. [ Sunday, October 09, 2005 19:09: Message edited by: Ephesos ] -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Kissing a girl in General
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Sunday, October 9 2005 18:29 Profile Homepage #117 I've missed most of this discussion, but nonetheless, much credit to you, Alex. Thank you for sharing with us. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
The Mountain of Shadows RP in General
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Sunday, October 9 2005 10:16 Profile Homepage #332 OoC: quote: Originally written by Zephyr Tempest: And for the record, I don't think a demon killing a cat is funny, AT ALL. Uh... it's not, unless you've built up a fantastic amount of tension describing how a demon slaughtered/possessed your family. Ending with your cat breaks the tension, and makes the whole speech sound a bit absurd. I'd think anyone's priorities would dictate ending the speech with your son, or perhaps ending with the fact that Orloki killed you as well, when you're basically family. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
The Mountain of Shadows RP in General
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Saturday, October 8 2005 22:54 Profile Homepage #326 OoC: For clarification: Cain has been infused with a part of Orloki's energy (falling just a bit short of his original goal), and has become part-demon. He was last seen fighting Caecus/Aerdiu as the cave collapsed, and has a small cloud of undead following him. Caecus/Aerdiu has recently been revealed to be Orloki's brother, as well as Orloki's former servant. He has a magic sword which can only appear when he's good, and a non-magic but legendary trident. After regaining possession of his old body, Caecus/Aerdiu had given in to Orloki's influence, attacked the rest of us, and then fell to fighting with Cain. He also sprouted two extra arms, a few extra ribs, changed his hair from gold to black. He now has an exposed heart, which is apparently his weakness. Orloki was restored to full power when Cain opened the crystal containing some of the demon's essence (though a bit of said energy was infused into Cain). After bringing Caecus/Aerdiu back under his control, he took off through the cave's ceiling, and weakened the ceiling when he passed through, triggering the cave-in. Whereabouts unknown. Now that that's cleared up... where are you, Thralni? -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
The Mountain of Shadows RP in General
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Saturday, October 8 2005 21:49 Profile Homepage #324 OoC: Okay, this is just me, but I don't think any character should ever be an embodiment of anything. That just grants way too much power. Learn to lose, and to lose gracefully (the extra arms were a bit much, honestly). Really, one more legendary weapon and I may drop out of this RP. It's a cop-out of a plot device. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Youth in Asia and the US Supreme Court in General
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Saturday, October 8 2005 21:43 Profile Homepage #17 quote: Originally written by Lady Davida: I like the Netherlands' system, although I'm a bit surprised to hear that it works. There's a lot of ambiguity in all that; how do they decide what's "well-thought-out", for instance, or "due care", and what do they do if the patient can't speak or think clearly? I believe a lot of paperwork is involved in the decision to go for active euthanasia. And while there are cases of active euthanasia where the patient never filled out all of the paperwork, they are usually cases where they had privately told their doctor of their wishes, and later became unable to sign the right forms. This can work because apparently the Netherlands medical system is often a bit more in-touch with patients and their families. The idea of a "family doctor" who makes house calls is alive and well there, as I understand it. Thus, it's a lot easier than it would be in the U.S, where hospitals would inevitably get sued. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Sleep in General
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Saturday, October 8 2005 21:35 Profile Homepage #6 College wreaks havoc on your sleep schedule... used to fall asleep around midnight, now it's 2 am on a good night, 1am if I'm really trying. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Things I learnt playing Avernum in The Avernum Trilogy
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Saturday, October 8 2005 21:32 Profile Homepage #4 quote: Originally written by Severity: —Alorael, who learned a very important lesson from Avernum: it's often absurdly easy to get where you're going by starting a fight and then changing your mind. Very true, particularly when you're trying to go somewhere that you shouldn't be. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
The Mountain of Shadows RP in General
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Saturday, October 8 2005 17:29 Profile Homepage #318 OoC: quote: Originally written by Zephyr Tempest: Caecus gripped Antiquus, the First Trident, in his hands very tightly. Okay, but where'd that thing come from? And where'd it go? Just wondering... -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
The Mountain of Shadows RP in General
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Saturday, October 8 2005 15:07 Profile Homepage #316 OoC: I do intend to keep the staff, just so you know... -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Politics and Beliefs in General
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Saturday, October 8 2005 15:03 Profile Homepage #70 quote: Originally written by Eldibs: quote: Science and religion will remain separate until further notice. Creationism and Intelligent Design seem to have been created just to twist existing evolutionary evidence around to support religious positions. And to be perfectly honest, public schools are run by the state. Church & state will also remain separate until further notice. (Thus, I guess it'd be okay in private schools) Church and State are not seperate by any means. The 10 commandments are everywhere in Washington D.C. And if I remember correctly, the Supreme Court opens with a prayer by a minister paid by the taxpayers. Let me clarify... church and state should remain separate until further notice. Come to think of it, why is that violated so consistently? -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Things I learnt playing Avernum in The Avernum Trilogy
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Saturday, October 8 2005 14:59 Profile Homepage #1 6. Nobody will see you if you close the door. 7. Getting stoned can be dangerous to your health. 8. Not all cockroaches are evil. 9. Give to the poor. Otherwise, you'll never get rich. 10. Never trust Avernum with a powerful artifact, it'll be stolen within in a week. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Beta Testing Testing One Two Three Four in Avernum 4
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Saturday, October 8 2005 14:54 Profile Homepage #16 Of course... I'm not quite stupid enough to post details here. (#400! Only a hundred until Erudite!) -------------------- Thuryl: "Runescape: for people who are too stupid to save their games." Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
The Mountain of Shadows RP in General
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Saturday, October 8 2005 11:37 Profile Homepage #314 OoC: I think I speak for everyone when I say... "Huh?" I don't think we're in final showdown territory yet. We're still too far down the mountain. And Zephyr, just a word of advice: the whole story shouldn't be built around a single character. And how is Caecus/Aerdiu (I can't keep the names straight anymore... you have the same name as the sword?) Orloki's brother?! That would imply that Caecus/Aerdiu is a demon as well... In short, mental overload! Must... clarify... plot! IC: Brother Sequoia ran into the cavern, flanked by Lisha, the elf, and Edith. Tuulentekija followed a ways back, the druid saw as he glanced back for a second. Hm... I thought that entrance was better-lit than that. When they arrived in the center of the cave, all five of them stopped dead in their tracks. A scene of unimaginable chaos had unfolded before them: a cluster of undead warriors standing by a faded and cracked altar, all backlit by someone who radiated an intense red light. A man with raven-black hair and an extra set of arms lay kneeling on the ground and clutching his head with all four arms. Then, they saw it: the immense demonic form which could be nothing other than Orloki. Its twisted form almost looked humanoid, but it kept changing shape. The demon's flesh warped constantly, taking on new forms with every glance. The whole form glowed blood-red, casting the demonic light around the entire cave. Extra arms and legs appeared at random, and the demon's wings split and reformed several times a minute. This can't be happening, it's too bizarre. Nature can't allow for this sort of thing... he thought, almost passing out from shock. Beside him, Edith and Tuulentekija stood stunned. Tuulentekija called out two names, sounding like "Filbert and Cain," and Edith simply stood rooted to the spot. "Cain's over there... glowing." Edith said, drawing surprised looks from Lisha, Sequoia and Tuulentekija. The elf seemed nonplussed. "He has taken the form of a demon," the elf said bluntly. "I don't know how, but the form is unmistakeable." The booming voice of the demon Orloki filled the room. At least, Sequoia assumed it was Orloki, due to the ferocity, evil-ness, and sheer volume of the voice. "Aerdiu, you shall defend me against these intruders!" And with that, Orloki launched up into the highest reaches of the cave, and passed through the ceiling. As the last mutating inches of his form passed through the solid rock, a crack formed in the ceiling, slowly spreading out. "Uh... we have a problem." Sequoia said, pointing up towards the ceiling. "I'd say we have twenty minutes at the most before the whole gallery caves in on us." "That's not our only problem." Lisha said, motioning towards the four-armed black-haired man approaching them. His eyes glowed red, and four swords suddenly appeard in his arms as he let loose with an unearthly wail. And if that wasn't enough, the man Edith identified as Cain was marching purposefully towards them, with a group of undead following close behind. Lisha, the elf, and Tuulentekija drew blades. Edith began muttering some sort of spell. Sequoia paused for a minute to grasp the necklace around his neck. I hope this still brings me some luck... he thought, drawing his staff and beginning a spell. Seconds later, Lisha and the elf had flung daggers at the undead and the demonic Cain, and Brother Sequoia had fired a bolt of holy nature magic at the undead. The man with four arms and Cain both charged, undead warriors trailing in their wake. One easy fight is all I ask... Sequoia thought, preparing a blinding sunlight spell. OoC: And thus, the battle is joined. I really don't want to have to drop a rock on anyone... -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Politics and Beliefs in General
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Saturday, October 8 2005 10:49 Profile Homepage #66 quote: Originally written by Aranea Hirsuta: Another point: We all keep dancing about the merits/legality of abortion itself, but why not just keep it legal? Except that subsidization for it from all levels of government should be revoked. I do not want my hard-earned tax dollars spent in that way. Of course there are the special cases where a woman has been raped, or her life is in danger. I don't mind subsidies for these cases. But there should be no subsidies for those who cannot take responsibility for their actions. Look at it this way: Is it easier to help pay for a woman's abortion or to help pay for society to raise an unwanted child in foster care for who-knows-how-many years? quote: Also, I think that there should be some way, if a woman does choose to have an abortion, to make the father of the child responsible for an equal share of the cost of the abortion. But then another, very large, problem arises. What if the father does not want to pay because he wants to keep the child? Or vice versa? Potentially a very large problem, but either way, the father should be helping out as well. And if the mother and father are minors, some other large issues arise. I don't pretend to have all of the answers here, but society should not be bearing the cost. I agree that the father should have to bear some of the cost, particularly when the two aren't married or in a relationship anymore. And I think that it's a bit unfair that the father's desire to have a child could force the mother to carry it to term (as I'm certain has happened in the past), so in those arguments I believe the mother should have the right to abort when she doesn't want the child. Of course, both parties' opinions should be consistent and well-thought-out, in order to avoid random bursts of emotion deciding the case. quote: But the point is that we cannot allow these people to feel that what they have done is ok. They have irresponsibly used their sexual faculty and they must understand that they cannot shove off their problems to others. Okay, interesting perspective, but I don't agree. Not all cases come from sexual irresponsibility, though some inevitably do. The people in question need to acknowledge their irresponsibility, but there are other ways to do this. Let them get an abortion, then let people guilt-trip them about their irresponsibility. That way, they learn a lesson but aren't emotionally/economically/physically damaged for the rest of their life. One moment of irresponsibility (or in the case of failed contraceptive measures, a moment of bad luck) should not lead to a lifetime of regrets. Hm... I apologize if I repeated anyone's remarks, but there's a lot to keep in mind with all of this, and my mind isn't keeping up all that well. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Youth in Asia and the US Supreme Court in General
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Saturday, October 8 2005 10:35 Profile Homepage #10 Yeah, I honestly need to look into more countries' perceptions of euthanasia. Could be interesting, particularly among nations with more varied religious opinions (i.e.: Japan, China, Iran, South Africa, etc.). And I have my usually-boring but surprisingly-informative philosophy class to thank for my enlightenment about Germany and the Netherlands. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Youth in Asia and the US Supreme Court in General
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Saturday, October 8 2005 10:19 Profile Homepage #8 Synergy, yet again you've managed to summarize the standard American attitude in a single post (albeit a rather long one). (applause) I think that all voluntary euthanasia should be legalized, it should just be protected to the degree that people don't decide to end it all on a whim. The desire to die must be persistent, as weird as that sounds. From what I've heard about other systems, I like the models offered in the Netherlands and Germany the most (thank you 8:30 a.m. philosophy class). In Germany, active euthanasia is unsupported by the public, so they stick with the passive variety (which we use in the U.S., usually by removing a feeding tube). After all, when so many people are haunted by the past atrocities of Nazi doctors performing active euthanasia, it's understandable. However, a private organization called Deutsche Gesellschaft für Humanes Sterben (it translates to the German Society for Dying with DIgnity) offers support to its members who would rather commit suicide than go through a prolonged and painful terminal illness. They also offer training for family members in Sterbebegleitung (accompaniment in dying), which means helping someone carry out their suicide. It seems odd, and many people disagree with it, but it's an interesting alternative. However, the laws in Germany run something to the effect that anyone assisting with the suicide must leave before the dying person loses consciousness, or else they are legally responsible for reviving them. In the Netherlands, voluntary active euthanasia is permitted, provided that: 1) the patient's request is voluntary and well-thought-out, 2) the patient is headed for long and painful suffering, 3) every other alternative has been tried & the patient believes there's no other way, 4) the patient knows exactly what's going on, 5) a second opinion has been obtained verifying the patient's condition, and 6) the physician must act with due care. This system has worked, and the entire process is socially tolerated. The government is watching it, however, and hopes to avoid the whole "slippery slope" scenario. While I believe that either system is preferable to the one present in America, I'm pretty certain that a majority of Americans wouldn't accept it, due to the mindset already explained by Synergy. Still, it's a choice (parallel to the abortion discussion... creepy), and people should be able to act on their choice. And anything that John Ashcroft supported, I think I'm legally bound to oppose. I hate him. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00

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