DOCTOR WHO
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Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
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written Sunday, October 9 2005 21:25
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Politics — bah! Legislation — bah! Quibbling over the nature of science vs. religion — bah! The fate of the world hanging in the balance between utter destruction at the hands of fanaticism and powerjunkies, or falling into apathy and darkness — bah! Let's get on to things that really matter. Let's talk about Doctor Who. Feel free to participate in this poll and then discuss your favorite aspects of the show, favorite episodes, favorite writers, etc., in subsequent posts. Or just share random memories and impressions of the show. Assuming, of course, anybody else is qualified to do so. For the record, I picked the next-to-last option as my response. That should tell you everything you need to know about me in relation to this most fantastic of television programs. You'll also notice an American slant on the options, but that is because (a) I'm an American, & (b) we American Whovians outnumber you Britfans anyway, new series or no new series. And the right to outnumber others is the essence of democracy, is it not? I also know Mariann Krizsan is a Doctor Who fan. I hope she stops by and contributes even a single post to this discussion.  [ Sunday, October 09, 2005 21:35: Message edited by: Icshi ] Poll Information This poll contains 1 question(s). 35 user(s) have voted. You may not view the results of this poll without voting. function launch_voter () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=vote;pollid=rMiomOIxTNQJ"); return true; } // end launch_voter function launch_viewer () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=view;pollid=rMiomOIxTNQJ"); return true; } // end launch_viewer function launch_window (url) { preview = window.open( url, "preview", "width=550,height=300,toolbar=no,location=no,directories=no,status,menubar=no,scrollbars,resizable,copyhistory=no" ); window.preview.focus(); return preview; } // end launch_window   -------------------- The A.E. van Vogt Information Site My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Sunday, October 9 2005 21:35
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Well, I picked an option as close as I could... while I've never owned any of the episodes, our local library system proved to have quite a few of them. Very good stuff. Amazing what you can do with laughable SFX (and the same quarry) when you've got plot and substance. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 3364
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written Monday, October 10 2005 05:15
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I mostly watched them when I was younger. I had an older cousin that was really into it and he lived with us for a while so I was quite saturated in it. I don't have any of the 'official' tapes but I have most of the episodes taped off tv. I haven't watched them in eons though because they're at my parents house. I only really remember a couple episodes and one because it gave me nightmares. Nothing like turning into a giant bug to start a kid screaming at night. -------------------- "Even the worst Terror from Hell can be transformed to a testimony from Heaven!" - Rev. David Wood 6\23\05 "Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as you ever can." - John Wesley Posts: 1001 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3377
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written Monday, October 10 2005 06:00
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I've got most of the books, and all the current tv reruns taped (up to Black Orchid, as of last week). The one that really gave me nightmares when I was a kid was The Curse of Fenric, and I've been put off ivy and dolls for life. Though my brothers are half to blame for the ivy. There was a Dr Who convention earlier this year, with Katy Manning, Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy in attendance. I got autographs ... hey, it's not like we ever get that much sf stuff happening in this city. :) Posts: 356 | Registered: Saturday, August 23 2003 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2759
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written Monday, October 10 2005 11:08
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Hooray! A Doctor Who thread! I love Who and have watched it since I was 9 years old. Of course, it has sadly been off-air for most of my life, but I got around that by buying the videos of the extant bits of the previous 26 years' worth of shows. Now finally my patience has been rewarded and I can now enjoy watching Christopher Eccleston in the ALL NEW series... which has now been repeated on tv about half a million times... never mind, it's 500,000 times better than anything else that's on tv anyhow. I have also been to quite a few conventions, including some attended by Jon Pertwee, while he was still alive. The best one was a reunion in the original village where they filmed the Daemons, which still has the same green, houses and of course the church where the Master summoned Azal... PS: my location "DSV liberator" has a tenuous Who link. PPS: Icshi is an abominable snowman. [ Monday, October 10, 2005 11:16: Message edited by: Micawber ] -------------------- Everything I know about the Avernum Trilogy: [ A1 | A2 | A3 ] Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00 |
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Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
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written Monday, October 10 2005 11:33
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The episodes that made the greatest impression on me (in terms of juvenile terror) were Planet of Evil with its atmosphere of otherworldly isolation, and The Seeds of Doom with the plants being taken over by the Krynoids. Frontios also scared me — but for some reason seeing the captain plugged into that excavation machine, with its metallic tendrils that latch onto its occupant, frightened me more than anything else. Truth to tell, I've never been to a Doctor Who convention — I don't like conventions at all. The only motivation to go to one would be to see the merchandise available, but even so I can get those kinds of thing online more easily and I don't have to pay an $80 door fee to see it. I'd rather spend all that money on actual tangibles, thank you very much. Just to stir up a bit more conversation (or maybe just to soliloquize), here's a list of my favorite episodes: The War Games — this epic ten-part Troughton serial has some of the finest scripting and acting in the series' history Inferno — "Must... reach... penetration... zero!" The Pirate Planet — written by Douglas Adams. What more do I need to say? I think the most under-rated episode is The Horns of Nimon — yes, the sets are appallingly cheap, the script is often repetitive and lackluster, but Graham Crowden's zanny over-the-top performance as Soldeed makes this one worth watching many times over. "The Nimon be praised!" And I think the best novels are: Original Sin by Andy Lane The Well-Mannered War by Gareth Roberts Alien Bodies by Lawrence Miles — easily the best Doctor Who story ever told P.S. — Yes, Micawber, you're spot on! I thought it was fitting that an abominable snowman should appear in the abominable photo thread... I didn't expect anyone to recognize the reference, though, but very glad that somebody did. You say the "DSV Liberator" has a tenuous link to DW — could you explain it? I did a Google search on the phrase and found mainly pages discussing Blake's 7 (Terry Nation's series which I'd like to see some day). If that is a Blake's 7, does that mean you're also a fan of that series? Would you recommend it highly enough for me to try to find the series on DVD even if I've never seen it? Well, if they ever get around to releasing it in Region 1, anyway. [ Monday, October 10, 2005 11:40: Message edited by: Icshi ] -------------------- The A.E. van Vogt Information Site My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2759
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written Monday, October 10 2005 12:04
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Among my favourites are Genesis of the Daleks and Caves of Androzani. The scripts are just brilliant; backed up by some fine performances. For instance it is hard not to shiver when you hear the following line delivered by Nyder: "Thank you. That's what I wanted to know." Cue approach of daleks. Inferno is an awesome story. Not just because of the eyepatch, although that is funny. But mainly because the Doctor dismisses Prof Stahlman (who let's remember is a lunatic who is going to destroy the world) with the line "You sir, are a nit-wit!". What a put-down. The line from Horns of Nimon that I remember is, "I saw three!" (in an unhinged voice). This one is in the same league (and the same season) as Creature from the Pit. That is to say, not the sort of serial you would show to a non-fan... In terms of the books, I like The Sorceror's Apprentice by Christopher Bulis, and everything written by Gareth Roberts is super. I also quite liked Human Nature by Paul Cornell, if memory serves. Re Blake's Seven, yes I love that series. It is brilliant and I would recommend it highly. It is an excellent antidote to the disneyfied space-syrup offered by Star Trek. The Doctor Who connection is Terry Nation - I did say it was tenuous - because Terry Nation invented both the daleks and B7. Other connections include Colin Baker (6th Doctor, played Bayban the Beserker in a B7 episode), Richard Hurndall (1st Doctor in The Five Doctors plays a slave in a B7 episode) and Jacqueline Pearce (appeared as Chesyene in The Two Doctors, plays the main villain Servelan throughout the B7 series). Edit: Stories worth an honourable mention include The Sea Devils (worth it for the duel scene alone), The Dalek Invasion of Earth (obviously), Frontier in Space and City of Death. [ Monday, October 10, 2005 12:16: Message edited by: Micawber ] -------------------- Everything I know about the Avernum Trilogy: [ A1 | A2 | A3 ] Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00 |
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Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
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written Monday, October 10 2005 15:59
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Yes, Genesis of the Daleks and The Caves of Androzani are also two of my favorites. They're both very bleak, and that lends their stories so much more force. One of the strongest aspects of Inferno is the contrast between the two parallel worlds. Otherwise it would've been an interesting but strangley pedestrian story about breaking through the Earth's crust. To see the world we're familiar with twisted so badly, the characters we love warped into dark parodies of themselves, and then to actually see the world end despite the Doctor's attempts to save it makes the whole situation so nightmarish that it stands as one of their finest serials. And the fact that the nature and goals of the green goo oozing up from the mantle are never explained makes it that much more threatening. Nothing is more detrimental to an atmosphere of fear in a story than trying to explain too much. Other good episodes are: The Green Death — I love that highly cultured computer that's using Global Chemicals' CEO as its pawn, and hums bits from Beethoven and Iolanthe as the network of computers is being connected Colony in Space — an excellent presentation of the issues of colonization, empires, and corporate greed, and one that takes its time in telling the story The Face of Evil — shows the unpredictable consequences of some of the Doctor's casual actions, and has a brilliant depiction of a degenerated space-faring society I don't like Paul Cornell's work by and large — Love and War was the only novel by him that I actually liked. (Goth Opera and No Future was all right, but nothing noteworthy.) But I do consider myself quite a Christopher Bulis fan. I think Palace of the Red Sun or Vanderdeken's Children is his best. I haven't read Sorceror's Apprentice yet. He's able to use the established format to tell a story, and doesn't waste time performing idiotic experimental pyrotechnics that is the trademark of other authors like Paul Magrs and Kate Orman. I like Magrs' The Scarlet Empress a lot, though — I don't know what went wrong; he hasn't written a good book since then. Lawrence Miles is about the only experimenter to succeed at what he's trying to do, and he does it well. Thanks for the information on Blake's 7. I remember the cast of "crossover" actors from DW now that you remind me. Wasn't Richard Hurndall running around in a rather skimpy outfit in the episode he appeared in? I remember reading that somewhere and found it almost too terrible to imagine! I also read somewhere that the end of the series had all the heroes killed off — a brave move for television, in any country or decade. [ Monday, October 10, 2005 16:09: Message edited by: Icshi ] -------------------- The A.E. van Vogt Information Site My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Monday, October 10 2005 16:42
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Ah, Blakes 7... another amazing show. And another example of good plots and characters compensating for laughable SFX. It's a shame how it ends, though. Quite depressing (and a bit inconsistent character-wise, really... I mean, why would Avon snap like that?), but still impressively dramatic. Still, I heard something about a revival series, where somebody comes back. Anybody know what became of that? -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6347
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written Monday, October 10 2005 16:45
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I used to watch it as a kid... rather enjoyed it, really. Not sure what happened. I don't really remember much, other than the Tardis (and even then, barely the name and the fact that it was basically a pan-dimensional British phonebooth or somesuch), and how the Daleks scared me. :( -------------------- "Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2759
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 12:44
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Re Paul Cornell: In general I agree, he's not my favourite writer. But Human Nature is a very interesting book, and is not the same as his usual stuff. Re Richard Hurndall: Yes, you do get to see a bit too much of his thighs for compfort in that costume. Although it's quite suitable for a slave costume. To Ephesos Re B7 ending: The thing about Avon is, he's very insecure and can't bear the idea of having been deceived by Blake. Then it appears that he has been made a fool of ("you betrayed me?") which he seems to interpret as a personal affront, hence he snaps. To Muji Re What Happened: It doesn't really matter what happened, as continuity was never the series' strength. The atmosphere, the sense of exploration and the basic decency of the Doctor in the face of his opponents, that was the point of the series. -------------------- Everything I know about the Avernum Trilogy: [ A1 | A2 | A3 ] Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5268
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 17:55
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Doctor Who was a staple for me growing up and I love it. As for a link between Blakes 7 and Doctor Who, it's not as tenuous as Micawber suggests. The scriptwriter plays a huge role in the feel of a show and Terry Nation was a large part of the feel of both those shows - its one of the reasons I like both shows so much. I cheered when they brought out the new series and it hit all the right notes. Christopher Ecclestone was great as the Doctor and it's a shame he was only around for one series. Hopefully they can keep the standard up for the second season. I think the scariest episode for me as a kid was Seeds of Doom (if I recall correctly - did that involve people being turned into plants at an Antarctic base?) Posts: 148 | Registered: Tuesday, December 7 2004 08:00 |
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Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 20:38
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Yes, Skippy, parts one and two of The Seeds of Doom took place in Antarctica. One of the men was nearby when the first pod opened up and it infected him, transforming him into a Krynoid, a sentient flesh-eating plant. Then parts three through six took place in England, where the mysterious Mr. Chase studied the second pod and everything really started going awry. It's good to hear Blake's Seven getting such high priase. If they put season one out on American DVD tomorrow I'd buy it, thanks to everyone's ringing endorsements. Could you guys in the Commonwealth countries tell me a bit about the new Doctor Who series? It appears that it'll be forever and a day before they release this on American DVD, and no television channel here has shown the slighest interest in airing it, so I'd like some firsthand reports please. What I've read on the internet seems fairly positive, but I'm afraid to read too much and accidentally run into spoilers. I hate spoilers... I get the impression the new series actually has a decent budget. I must say I have mixed feelings about this — I love the "homey" feel the original series had, and feel, rather paradoxically, that their low budgets made the stories and acting that much more important. Then again, lots of the original novels are superb and those are on an "unlimited" budget since you can imagine it all in your mind. What are the stories like (without giving away any plot details)? Are they in the same spirit as the original series? Of course, the original series covered a lot of moods and approaches — for instance, your average Hartnell story is very different than the average McCoy story. What about the scripts — is there an emphasis on contemporary themes and settings? I hope not — those are the ones that date very quickly and aren't very interesting. Are there any historical adventures? Or do they mix SF and history as they did after the Troughton era (which I prefered above the straight historicals)? Do they throw in sex, crude humor, and suchlike to draw in the juvenile audiences? Etc.? [ Tuesday, October 11, 2005 20:41: Message edited by: Icshi ] -------------------- The A.E. van Vogt Information Site My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2759
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written Wednesday, October 12 2005 09:28
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The new Who series is really quite good. It has a good mix of familiar elements (e.g. the TARDIS, the Autons, the Daleks) and new elements (new characters, new monsters, new settings). It has a mixture of historic settings (e.g. the episode featuring Charles Dickens) present day settings (e.g. the episode where Rose tries to prevent her father's death) and futuristic settings (e.g. the 2nd episode set on a space station). The episodes have humour, and there are some halfway decent SFX, but not at the expense of the story. Best of all, the feel of the series -at least for me - was the traditional one, namely the Doctor and his companion exploring the universe and getting into scrapes. It mostly seemed to avoid the excessive angst of the later McCoy stories & New Adventures. The new series was broadcast in the early evening on a Saturday night and it explicitly caters for children in its tone (notwithstanding the evil monster shock factor). However the thing that does, for me, diminish the series is the new 50 minute format. No more cliffhangers, which were a key feature of the original series. And 50 minutes doesn't give the writers so long to develop the plot as the old 4x25 minute serials. Not so many twists. On the flip side, of course, the original stories sometimes felt padded and the new format does manage to avoid that. -------------------- Everything I know about the Avernum Trilogy: [ A1 | A2 | A3 ] Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5268
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written Wednesday, October 12 2005 13:41
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quote:I find it amusing that I can't suggest to you that you just order the DVD from the UK or Australia. In Australia, due to a combination of region-free DVD players, TV sets/DVD players that handle both PAL and NTSC and comparatively reasonable prices to order things from Amazon.com it doesn't really matter where in the world a DVD is released - if you are dedicated enough you can get it. As for the new series - it captured the feel of the original only updated for contemporary standards. I suspect that Christopher Ecclestone was an important part of that. Furthermore, you weren't distracted by any failings of the special effects or sets (which you can be when rewatching old Doctor Who episodes). Watching it was fun. Posts: 148 | Registered: Tuesday, December 7 2004 08:00 |
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Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
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written Wednesday, October 12 2005 17:57
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Thanks for the info, Micawber and Skippy. Very much appreciated. It's good to hear that they're maintaining the flavor of the original show. And yes, the angst in the last two McCoy seasons and the entire run of New Adventures got old very fast. Especially with the later, where they turned Ace into a moronic fast-and-loose killing machine. I think one of the failings of this angst-ridden period was that there were too many young authors in charge. Young writers seem to feel that they need to make things as unpleasant, gritty, and "realistic" as possible to show that they really are "serious" writers. Fortunately, about a third of the way into the BBC's run of books, most of these authors had aged enough and were successful enough that they didn't feel they had to "prove" anything any more. I'm glad to hear that children remain the target audience — that keeps unpleasantness and idiotic angst to a minimum. I must admit that when I learned Russell T. Davies was to be the series script editor and head writer, I threw up my arms in resignation. I'd read his New Adventure Damaged Goods and found it to be the single most disgusting, offensive, and rottenest book I'd ever read. To me it represented everything that was wrong with modern SF, the New Adventures, young writers, and, well, just everything! I'm still not quite sure how the Davies who wrote that book could ever write for children, but hey, the world is full of surprises, and any good author knows his audience. I guess perhaps Davies knew his novel was targeting an adult audience so held nothing back. So it would seem he has the ability — as all writers should — to change what he writes to fit the intended audience. So that's comforting to know. And regarding the 50-minute format — very sad. To me, the model Doctor Who story is four episodes long, which comes to about an hour and forty minutes — longer even than your typical movie. That gives the writer enough room to introduce the setting, explore the situation, do some fun running around, cook up a solution, and implement it. Fifty minutes is hardly enough time to even start the "running around" stage by my clock! And about cliffhangers — interestingly, this is an aspect of the show that has never affected the American viewers. You see, PBS would edit the individual episodes together seamlessly, with the beginning music at the very start and then the end credits at the end of the final episode. So to Americans, the average story was almost exactly like a full-length movie. Of course, with stories like The War Games PBS would air a one-part edit of episodes 1-5 one week, then a separate one-part edit of episodes 6-10 the next week. Trial of a Time Lord was the other serial that got this week-by-week treatment, but even so they edited into just 4 separate segments rather than the original 14. These were the only sorts of cliffhangers we Americans ever got to see! Doctor Who has always been served up in huge cohesive slabs to be viewed in a single sitting — perhaps as strong a testament to the real potential length of Americans' attention span as there ever was... And about DVDs — I really despise the regional encoding system. But your comments got me to thinking, Skippy. I have an iMac with a combo drive that I often watch movies on. So I did some digging around out of curiosity, and found that an iMac's "region" can be reset up to five times, but after that it's stuck in its last region mode and only the manufacturer can reset it. Phooey. Maybe when my family's current DVD player bites the dust I'll go out of my way to find a multi-region DVD player so I won't have to wait for shows such as these to appear on the American market. I know a few people who've gone this route and it seems to work fine for them. Good advice there! There are currently no laws against this sort of thing in the U.S., but at the current rate that our Legislative Leviatian is running amock, I'm sure it won't be long, so I'd best do it while we still can. Thanks again, both of you, for such interesting conversation. It's not often I get to interact with other Doctor Who fans... -------------------- The A.E. van Vogt Information Site My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00 |
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Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
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written Tuesday, October 18 2005 16:49
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Well, lookie lookie lookie: http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/news/cult/news/drwho/2005/10/18/26079.shtml Looks like I won't have to move to Australia to see the show after all. -------------------- The A.E. van Vogt Information Site My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2759
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written Wednesday, October 19 2005 10:14
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Great news! Will you be able to get the Canadian DVDs in the US, though? It'd be a pity to miss out on a trip to Australia, though... -------------------- Everything I know about the Avernum Trilogy: [ A1 | A2 | A3 ] Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00 |
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Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
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written Wednesday, October 19 2005 11:26
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I'll be able to find the Canadian DVDs for sale online. I do business with the Doctor Who Store, an excellent U.S. company. At the moment, they're even selling the British DVDs — compared to that, it'll be a snap for them to sell copies of the Canadian release. -------------------- The A.E. van Vogt Information Site My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00 |
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Agent
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written Wednesday, October 19 2005 11:40
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I don't even have the new Who DVDs yet, myself. Waiting for the value box set... -------------------- Everything I know about the Avernum Trilogy: [ A1 | A2 | A3 ] Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00 |