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Khor's Deeps (possible spoilers) in Geneforge Series
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #8
I finished the game as a Loyalist Shaper, and you do indeed get the key to the docks from K. Here's how:

(1) When you first encounter K in his tower, he tells you to check out Agatha's mansion.

(2) Commit some light-hearted burglary of Agatha's masion - make sure you read her journal!

(3) Go back to K and tell him what the journal said.

(4) K tells you to go rescue Agatha and the imprisoned Shapers.

(5) Rescue the Shapers.

(6) Return to K and tell him of your success - he then tells you that you need to go to the Spear Isle and gives you the dock key.

All done!

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
RWG in Richard White Games
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #11
Yes, we all love ripping on Galactic Core, but why do we do it? I hate all kinds of games, and yet I don't feel the need to go to their forums and rip on them. Why is GC different?

Why do we love to hate it so much?

I must honestly say that I enjoy coming here to find out the new and interesting ways people will use to describe their loathing of GC. Its like an audience-participation freak show.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
RWG in Richard White Games
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #6
We kid! We kid Richard White!

We kid because we love....

Z

EDIT:

I just realized that Galactic Core is no longer available for sale online from Spiderweb! How can we sleep at night? No more Galactic Core LAN parties? The HORROR!

[ Thursday, March 31, 2005 21:59: Message edited by: Zorro ]

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
RWG in Richard White Games
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #2
Kelandon - you surely have better things to be doing with your time than researching the biographies of 20 people with the name Richard White?

If not, than I would suggest playing Galactic Core to understand how miserable a Richard White can make you.

Z

[ Wednesday, March 30, 2005 19:57: Message edited by: Zorro ]

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Is GF3 worth for the waiting after you play it? in Geneforge Series
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #6
I've purchased Geneforge 3 and am having a blast! It feels more polished than G2. It includes a lot more unique enemies, and some NPCs that can tag along, often inserting themselves in conversations. They seem more engaged that NPCs from Baldur's Gate, but less so than Baldur's Gate 2.

My only real complaint is that I'm not a big fan of the new shaper avatar. I think I liked the old one better.

As to whether it is worth the wait - that's a very hard question to answer. I think it was, but others will surely disagree. The person above who mentioned that if you liked G2, than you'll really like this one, is right.

I also think that the factions seem to be more brutal, all of them. None of them are really well-meaning - they're all power hungry and taking an "any means necessary" approach. Don't expect to get a lot of warm fuzzy feelings from this game. In all likelihood, you'll genuinely despise aspects of the faction you've joined.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
How did you first find out about Spidweb's games and what is it first games you play? in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #17
The year - 1994
The place - the University of Illinois (go Illini!)

I was just an undergrad student, but the WWW was being developed locally at the U of I's NCSA (National Center for Super-computing Applications), which meant that I learned how to web surf went it was possible to literally link to every web page in the internet.

One of the things I discovered was a macintosh file archive called info-mac or something like that, and I downloaded a couple of games to play on my brand spankin' new Quadra 605 (25 megahertz of computing bliss). Exile was one of them.

I loaded up Exile and just hated it. The character creation was so goddamn confusing I gave up after one try. Eventually, I tried again, but got frustrated with the dialogue system and combat.

Years later, I read a review of Nethergate, and decide to check it out. I loved it! So when I went to register, I saw I could get all kinds of deals if I also got the Exile trilogy CD, and Blades of Exile. So I decide, "what the hell" and buy the whole lot.

Then, when I retried Exile I, I still hated it. And now I felt like a jackass for having paid for a game I hate.

I tried Blades of Exile, and hated it as well. I then tried to download a custom scenario, and got frustrated when I learned that I needed to resedit the friggin' file in order to see the graphics. I decided that the whole Exile thing was just a giant waste. At the risk of branding myself a traitor to all that is decent, I STILL hate all things Exile.

I have no idea why I decided to try Avernum - probably because I didn't realize it was a remake of Exile. But I very much enjoyed Avernum, and the subsequent Avernum II and III. (A big "thank you" to Jeff for allowing class selection alternative at the beginning rather than throwing a huge list of skills.)

At that point I decided I liked Spiderweb games, and that the Exile games were just kind of a rough draft.

I tried the two Geneforge games and loved them as well. Geneforge II is probably tied with Nethergate as my favorite Spiderweb game.

I also got Blades of Averum, and surprisingly, I don't like it much. It just isn't much fun for me. I can't really explain why, I just don't enjoy it.

So there you have it - I've literally bought every Jeff-made Spiderweb game, but only liked 6 out of the 11. And yet, they're all so inexpensive, I don't feel cheated at all. And, of course, I'll buy Geneforge III when it is released.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Poor Man's Starbound? in Richard White Games
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #52
I quite enjoyed Escape Velocity: Nova. I found it fun to run around with my fleet trying to take over planets. These air traffic controllers are rather touchy - if you insult them they send the planetary defense fleet to blow you to atoms! Of course, if you knock them off, then the planet pays you a steady stream of income as they cower in fear of your awesome power.

I never liked Pillars of Garandel. I know some people seem to really like it, but I just kept wondering why the captain of the horsemen never rode one. And why my character had such a stupid mullet.

In order to keep this post relevant - I bet the captain of the galactic core fleet has a mullet.

Z

[ Sunday, March 27, 2005 03:24: Message edited by: Zorro ]

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Poor Man's Starbound? in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #52
I quite enjoyed Escape Velocity: Nova. I found it fun to run around with my fleet trying to take over planets. These air traffic controllers are rather touchy - if you insult them they send the planetary defense fleet to blow you to atoms! Of course, if you knock them off, then the planet pays you a steady stream of income as they cower in fear of your awesome power.

I never liked Pillars of Garandel. I know some people seem to really like it, but I just kept wondering why the captain of the horsemen never rode one. And why my character had such a stupid mullet.

In order to keep this post relevant - I bet the captain of the galactic core fleet has a mullet.

Z

[ Sunday, March 27, 2005 03:24: Message edited by: Zorro ]

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Nethergate on Windows XP? in Nethergate
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #9
I'm also a rather big Nethergate fan. I found it the best of Spiderweb's games, particularly playing as the Romans. I enjoy the challenge of playing a party of strong warriors with very little magic to back them up - it makes your tactics very important, particularly against the powerful enemies at the end of the game.

I'm one of those people that wishes Jeff would revisit the world of Nethergate. Of course, it seems really unlikely - Jeff seems to have "learned" that he should stick to more mainstream RPGs. But I don't think this lesson is really true. The "Geneforge" series, from what I gather, are SW's best selling titles and they certainly aren't your typical RPGs.

I think the reason Nethergate didn't sell so well is the same reason planescape didn't sell so well: it demanded that the player read too much text. Most casual players will be turned off. They play to escape or have some mindless fun for a couple of hours. The Geneforge games are successful because they suck you in. For as great as Nethergate is, it takes a while to get sucked in. You run around town talking to a bunch of people before you actually do anything.

Of course, I could be completely wrong. Who knows? Its just an unqualified opinion.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Which of these is worth playing? in Richard White Games
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #26
Question for all you Galactic Core players out there (and I know there may be up to two!) -

Which would you rather do

(1) Play a game of Galactic Core

or

(2) Butter up your left leg and walk into a hyena cage?

I'm going to take my chances with the Hyenas - shoot, I've got TWO legs!

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Which of these is worth playing? in Richard White Games
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #7
*CAN'T RESIST RIPPING ON GALACTIC CORE*

Why, for all that exists in this world, does "Galactic Core" exist? I honestly wonder - did ANYONE register a copy of it?

The only thing I can imagine that is worse than Galactic Core, would be playing an Play-by-Email game of Galactic Core with someone else. The mind instinctively recoils in horror at the thoughts of spending DAYS playing Galactic Core.

I'd rather be locked in a cage with a rabid wolverine than every try Galactic Core again. I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way.

[ Wednesday, February 16, 2005 11:34: Message edited by: Zorro ]

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Poll about making maps in Nethergate
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #3
I would also be very interested in your maps. But please (I don't mean this as a flame) run a spell checker if you include text on a map. It is obvious you're a very fast typer, and hence, make several typing mistakes. Nothing wrong with that, but it does make your first draft rough and difficult to read (nothing a good spell checker and a revision couldn't fix!).

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
History of the community in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #31
Couple of points:

(1) I'm glad to hear we're not very far from each other, TM - I did not, and do not, advocate a "no criticism" approach. I was arguing for offering more constructive criticism and use of probing questions to encourage beginners to keep trying.

(2) I don't like to quote my own posts, but TM and I are clearly thinking along the same lines - as I wrote previously -

"I think an excellent way to help budding designers is for someone who knows, and understands, the BoA editor, to write a tutorial that takes a reader from the start to the end of the scenario design process - including writing dialogue scripts, quests, etc. - explaining things every step of the way. Jeff's "tutorial" is inadequate to teach someone anything except how to place a couple of walls and a couple of enemies. His tutorial ends at about chapter 2 of what should be a 20 chapter tutorial.
"

I also stand by my assessment that Jeff's documentation for the editor is poorly written and unnecessarily complex.

Z

[ Tuesday, February 08, 2005 07:04: Message edited by: Zorro ]

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
History of the community in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #22
No offense was taken by your reply - but I will say this:

Which of the following alternatives is a more constructive course of action if you're beta testing someone's first scenario and you find a combat room rull of demons?

(1) Tell them they are a terrible designer and should never release this scenario, and just for good measure, compare their skills to human excrement.

or

(2) Ask them "Why did you put a room full of demons in that dungeon? What was the plot point you were trying to advance?"

Option one is likely to lead to a frustrated designer, one who potentially will abandon the community before they've had a chance to produce anything good. Option two uses questions to understand the designer's motivation and ideas, and then perhaps use his or her answers to suggest improvements ("I was trying to capture the feel of an epic final battle", "well then, I would recommend making on modified huge demon with severla imp servants..." etc.)

Also, it isn't elitist to say that some people can't tell good stories - that is just a fact of life. But it is silly to accuse someone of not being able to tell a story after seeing their first effort. Maybe the designer didn't know that some articles of guidance existed (and you can point them out), maybe they tried to do something really unique and interesting, but their coding skills were not up to the challenge. Maybe, even, English isn't their native language, and some grammar corrections turn a "horrible" design into an absolute gem. The point is no one is qualified to pass judgement on someone's future potential, in this area, based on their first efforts. Shakespeare's first play is widely considered to be terrible.

If you really think that BoA is best served as is, then enjoy it and the handful of scenarios that emerge. If you think it could be a more vibrant and fun community with more participants, then create the conditions that allow for beginners to participate (or at least don't deny this is a problem!). But right now, the barriers of entry are so high, and peer support is so low (for completely new beginners), that the trickle of designed scenarios is unlikely to grow into a stream.

In a certain sense, I think that the scenario editor is too unpolished anyway. The scenario editor documents are very poorly written, and the organization of contents isn't presented in a logical way. The document offers grammatically twisted explanations for how scripting works, and then assures you that, if you don't understand it, just try it and eventually it will make sense.

I think an excellent way to help budding designers is for someone who knows, and understands, the BoA editor, to write tutorial that takes a reader from the start to the end of the scenario design process - including writing dialogue scripts, quests, etc. - explaining things every step of the way. Jeff's "tutorial" is inadequate to teach someone anything except how to place a couple of walls and a couple of enemies. His tutorial ends at about chapter 2 of what should be a 20 chapter tutorial.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
History of the community in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #20
I'd like to say that I disagree with the dichotomy of either be unrelenting in criticism or coddle crap.

It is true that, despite BoA's success in sales (as confirmed by Jeff in an interview on Mac Radio), scenarios aren't popping up. I think in part it is the difficulty of learning how to do even basic things, like script dialogue. But don't you think that it might also be slightly discouraging to download what seems to be a creative, fun and good scenario, and seeing people declare it a hopeless failure with no plot and not worth playing except for the technical features?

My point is that there must be some way to encourage new designers to practice - release more basic scenarios - if nothing else, so they can learn what to do better next time. You can argue that they're free to do it now, but how motivated is someone going to be if their scenario draws negative, sometimes abusive, reviews? How many people are going to work on a second scenario rather than say "to hell with it - my entertainment time is limited and I don't need this aggrevation!"?

S - your analogy to the workplace is flawed because there you're paying someone to do a job - and if they can't, or won't, you have to act. This is a purely voluntary effort, one that consumes someone's precious free time. At the least they deserve respect for trying. And encouraging members who are just learning the craft to experience creating a scenario from start to finish isn't "coddling crap" if you place it in the context of a learning, capacity building, process.

Some may think that making the barrier of entry extremely high will promote better quality scenarios. I'm sure it does, but it also discourages more casual designers from attempting, and perhaps learning enough to really contribute great designs. I have played a couple of BoA scenarios some time ago, but I haven't in about 8 months, and don't think I'll do so again. What fun is a game development system if you don't develop games? And what fun is it to release games to a decreasing pool of players? I think K has a strong point when he says the BoA cannot afford to lose scenarios at this point.

About twelve years ago, a game design system called Unlimited Adventures was released, and shortly thereafter, an online community began exchanging designs and encouraging new members to create designs. There are now, literally, thousands of designs available. A number of them really suck, but some are fantastic! I would be willing to bet that some of those designs are at least as good, if not better, than anything the BoE community created. One excellent, and relatively uncommon, feature of the UA community was a constant encouragement of new members. They held special beginner design contests. They had a newsletter with a regular section called "beginner's corner" that introduced basic and medium-difficulty design concepts. To this day, the UA community greets new members, encourages their efforts, and works with them to improve. You can call that "coddling crap", but it worked extremely well, and some of the best designs were created by people who started with rather poor first efforts (for instance, Ben Sanderfer's first designs were not good, but he wrote what is considered a masterpiece called "Dark Alliances").

The comparison isn't perfect because UA was less complicated than BoA, but they did find a way to keep the game fresh with contributions from hundreds of gamers. And, if anything, because of the more daunting technical skills necessary to create a BoA scenario, even a basic one, should put a higher premium on encouraging new players.

So there you have it - I think the self-styled "community" could use a dose of humility, perhaps create formal mechanisms to encourage new designers (Such as a beginner design competition, and beginner design documents), and hopefully realize that, in the long run, BoA will be enriched if more talents (even if a number of them begin as small talents) do try.

Z

[ Monday, February 07, 2005 05:44: Message edited by: Zorro ]

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
History of the community in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #6
I'm curious - What is this "Solberg Incident"? Sorry to post something off-topic like that, but inquiring minds want to know!

Also, regarding the BoA and BoE discussions: at the risk of starting a flame war, I found the BoE community to be a rather big turn-off. When I bought BoE, so long ago, I had grand dreams of creating scenarios and playing excellent scenarios developed by others - and to this day, I've never even played one scenario from start to finish (BoE has long since departed my hand drive). Part of the problems were graphics-related - I found it silly that I had to edit something with a low-level resource editor in order to use custom graphics (resedit on a Mac), and hence, never bothered with custom graphic scenarios.

But a significant part of the reason I never got into BoE was that the community could be downright savage against preceived transgressions. Particularly in two areas: the degree to which Jeff released updates, and the brutality inflicted upon beginner scenario designers. To be honest, what I found was an exclusionary community with a massive chip on its sholder that was hostile to outsiders and unrelenting in its negative judgements. Well, at the time I was living in Washington, DC, and I got enough of that crap every day without having to worry about it ruining my enjoyment of a computer game.

Unfortunately, I find this same sense of elitism and disdain for outsiders, is seeping into the BoA community. It has turned me off from that game as well. (Note to self, never buy a creation system game from Jeff again.)

You may think this is silly, but it killed my desire to work on a scenario. Every time I opened the program, I thought, "Why waste the long hours of my evenings doing this, only to release it and have it mocked as a silly effort that should never have been made?" And without the desire to make scenarios, my desire to play the game itself left me as well.

And so, while "the community" may be great in many ways, I think it could learn a healthy dose of tolerance and acceptance of others.

I'm not saying the BOE community is somehow worse than others. In fact, in some ways, it is much better than most - this is really the reason I never got into the MMORPG games. Who wants to come home after a long day of work and sit down at a computer screen only to be mocked and cussed at by "8 year old kids" with screen names like "KeWeLD00D2321"?

Enough ranting for now! As we say in Arabic "Halas".

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Blades of Geneforge in Geneforge Series
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #21
Please excuse me for my ignorance, but:

Is it really such a big deal with Jeff releases an Avernum (or, perhaps, in the future, a Geneforge) game after he has released an editor? I know people claim they're part of a community that has created its own history, but in a certain sense, so what? Can't they just enjoy the new game as if it were simply a new scenario? Surely many scenarios have been built with information that conflicts with other scenarios - but if they're well-made and fun, does it matter?

I'm just confused as to the active hostility toward Jeff that seems to boil to the surface every now and then, and usually for reasons that seem fairly irrational to me.

I don't mean this post as a flame against those who hold low opinions of Jeff. I'm just curious as to their motivation.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Blades of Geneforge in Geneforge 2
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #21
Please excuse me for my ignorance, but:

Is it really such a big deal with Jeff releases an Avernum (or, perhaps, in the future, a Geneforge) game after he has released an editor? I know people claim they're part of a community that has created its own history, but in a certain sense, so what? Can't they just enjoy the new game as if it were simply a new scenario? Surely many scenarios have been built with information that conflicts with other scenarios - but if they're well-made and fun, does it matter?

I'm just confused as to the active hostility toward Jeff that seems to boil to the surface every now and then, and usually for reasons that seem fairly irrational to me.

I don't mean this post as a flame against those who hold low opinions of Jeff. I'm just curious as to their motivation.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Speculating about Avernum 4's plot in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #28
Well - against my better judgment, I'm going to go a bit off topic to answer those who suggest that Jeff is either too lazy or too formulaic to create a complex plot with branching story lines.

I believe the future game will be complex for the following reasons -

(1) Jeff's games have become increasingly complex, and increasingly about role playing as opposed to simple "go kill goblins, then sliths," quests.

Think about it; the Exile series (and the plots for the Avernum series) were all created from about 1994 to 1998. Since then, his work has included Nethergate (very nice way of showing how different sides interpret the same events, particularly the ending), and the two Geneforge games (with Geneforge 2 being very complex and interactive in the role playing sense of the word).

Since the new Avernum is not a recreation of a previously-create game, like all the other Avernums, it makes sense to assume the plot content it will look more like his latest games (Nethergate, Geneforge, Geneforge 2) than the Exile/Avernum series.

(2) Jeff replies consistently in interviews that he finds engrossing and ambiguous ethical situations to be key to making a genuine and memorable role playing experience.

Jeff has mentioned in his "grumpy gamer" column that every game designer should read the New York Times every day. It is very hard to imagine that if someone follows this advice, they won't start thinking deeply about their ethical beliefs and convictions. Take Geneforge - I think one can legitimately say that it was, in many ways, Jeff's artistic exploration about what it means for humans to have the power to create life. And not in an abstract "I give thee life" kind of way. The NY Times has had many articles on the cloning of Dolly, and the steady stream of cloned animals, along with articles about its political and social consequences of human cloning. The Shapers themselves, in the Geneforge games, represent a side of these arguments – namely that we’re smart enough to know what we’re doing. Is it ever responsible to create life, or does the mere act of so doing render the creators less human and less able to identify with cloned life, or even life in general? What reaction does one expect from someone who discovered they are cloned? Do they owe gratitude, respect or hatred to their creators? What obligations to creators have to their creations?

The point is that Jeff had to be thinking about some very deep issues to make the Geneforge games as compelling as they are. This was not a typical game where the mutants are all murdering freaks. It is much more true to life in terms of human cloning than anything I’ve seen in the gaming world.

Should we expect anything less from Jeff’s next Avernum effort? Possibly, but I would suspect that Jeff is much more likely to work on, and release, a game that does more than offer a cave full of things to kill and/or steal. If nothing else, because he's sure to have many questions running around his mind every morning about the world around him. His natural creative side will be influenced by those thoughts.

-----

All that being said, it is obviously only a guess. Perhaps it will just be another dungeon romp in the cave. But I don't think so.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Speculating about Avernum 4's plot in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #0
I tried, I swear I tried!

I tried to make out something coherent from the HUGE number of Avernum 4 posts, but I couldn't. It seems to be a random collection of rants against Jeff for not doing this sooner or doing it at all, flames against previous posters, disconnected thoughts about religion and a dialogue about which is better - Avernum or Exile.

Sigh. Do all the discussions in the general forum have to end like that?

So, in an effort to create a more interesting discussion, allow me to pose a question to all of you - What do you believe (or hope) will be the plot of the upcoming Avernum game?

Here is my guess:

I think, as someone briefly mentioned in the previous thread, that the plot will be a succession war for Avernum after King Micah dies.

It may sound too Geneforge-esque, but such a scenario would provide an excellent back drop for great role playing. Do you support the child king who is a bit funny in the head? Do you support the Empire in their attempt to annex Avernum and bring peace to all humanity, by force if necessary? Do you support some other faction? Or, for the power gamers out there, do you fight your way to the crown (leaving an ocean of blood, of course)?

Such a plot would be entirely consistent with Jeff's style of using role playing games to examine ethical ambiguity and a free society's relationship to power. (He used to have a column called "the grumpy gamer" or something like that, in which he mentioned that his favorite games were Odyssey: the Legend of Nemesis, and Planescape. Both of these titles certainly are consistent with Jeff's idea of what makes a great role playing experience. In fact, Nethergate and Geneforge explore this theme, as does the Small Rebellion scenario, and Avernum III to a certain, albeit more clumsy, extent.)

I, at least, would find such a succession war to be incredibly interesting. It could have enormous replay potential, and it would be very different from the previous Avernum games.

And, if I'm totally wrong, perhaps I could go and just make the scenario described above in BoA. Assuming, of course, I learn how to script dialogue.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
BoA and Realmz what link?? in Blades of Avernum
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #9
Yeah, BOA has one x-factor that makes it far superior to Realmz - It is actually fun to play.

Trying to have fun playing Realmz is like being a blind man in a dark cellar looking for a black cat that doesn't exist.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
too bad.... in Blades of Avernum
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #9
In an effort to clear up some confusion....

Video editing is incredible on the Mac. They have industrial strength hardware, and exellent software, like Final Cut, that is probably close to being the best in the business.

BUT (and you knew there was a "but")

To take advantage of videoediting, you really do need to invest in a G5 (Apple's 64 bit chip), and it ain't cheap. Smooth, wonderful, etc., but not cheap. And as cool as BoA is, you really should buy the computer on the total merits, unless you happen to have a couple of thousands dollars to spend.

So think about this choice -

The pros to buying a G5
(1) First personal computer with 64 bit computing and an OS that supports it (Longhorn, the next version of Windows OS is rumored to be 64 bit, but is still more than a year and a half away.)
(2) Incredible video editing tools at very reasonable prices.
(3) Stable, mature OS based on BSD Unix and a more secure environment as far as worms and virii are concerned.

The cons of buying a G5
(1) Price - a decently-equipped G5 will cost you 2 to 4 thousand dollars.
(2) Less available software - especially games.
(4) You will lose your current library of software, since, obviously, it is written for windows - unless you buy Microsoft's virtual PC, which raises the total price another $200.

The choice you make will depend on your income, current setup, and planned future. Especially because the computer you buy now will make it more expensive to shift in the future.

My recommendation is that you visit and Apple store and play around with a G5, and see how you feel about it. That should help you make the right decision for your computing needs.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Census of Spiderweb community in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #29
Age - 28
Gender - Male
Sexual orientation - Heterosexual
Marital status - Engaged
Highest educational degree completed - Master's Degree
City/metropolitan area where you live - Washington, DC
Racial/ethnic origin - German Jew, Native South American
Nationality - Argentina
First/primary language - English/Spanish bilingual
Religion - Athiest
How long you've been a Spiderwebber - My first SW adventure was actually before SW existed, in 1994, when Exile came out. I played it and frankly didn't much care for it. Years later, I think 1998, Nethergate enticed me. Since then, I've bought every SW game, including Exile(!)
Whether or not you're a septuagenarian eskimo - Perhaps some day...
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Flattery or Thievery? in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #0
I just read a review of the MMORPG called "Shadowbane". They include a class called "Niphilim".

Did they rip off Jeff?

Z
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
What was the first game u played? in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #41
The first Spiderweb game I ever played was Exile 1. Back then, I don't think Spiderweb existed as a company. I downloaded it from the info-mac archives in 1994, my Freshman year of college, and hated it. It was just way too complicated for me, starting right off with the character creation.

I then returned to SW some time in 1999 I think, during grad school, trying to figure out a way to decompress from class work. I discovered Nethergate by reading a review and thought it sounded pretty cool - it blew me away! I loved it!

The positive experience with NG encouaged me to try the exile series again, so I bought the trilogy CD and BoE. But, to this day, I've never been able to get into them.

Despite the disappointment I experienced with the Exile series, I loved the Avernum series and bought all three.

About a year ago, flush with cash from a new job and signing bonus, I bought many new things, including Geneforge. I really liked that one as well.

I then purchased Geneforge 2 when it came out for Macintosh.

I guess you could say I'm a SW addict.

But, to be honest, I don't find computer games per se much fun. SW games have been the only ones that keep my attention, and now I only buy SW games. Does that make me a gaming luddite? Perhaps...

My very first computer game on the Mac was the Ancient Art of War. It blew me away!
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00

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