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Proof of a vast conspiracy in Richard White Games
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #0
I just registered Galactic Core, and I now have proof of a vast conspiracy to disguise the death of RIchard White.

Spiderweb employees claimed to "know nothing" about his death! Its so clear - they're only interested in cashing those fat paychecks from RW's best-selling games.

However, since RW his dead, Jeff cannot collect money for his games EXCEPT in way that maintains plausible deniability - the phone! If they had his games available to order on the website, it would be easy to track them, but now they can book the thousands (nay, MILLIONS!) of orders for Galactic Core as orders for Homeland instead.

I bet SW had a hand in RW's death. Perhaps Linda "accidentally" pushed him off the top of the Space Needle. Yes, that MUST be true. What other explanation could there be?

My logic is irrefutable!

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
A Trip to the Confessional in Richard White Games
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #53
quote:
Originally written by Ulterior Epilogue:

Linda aside, sometimes there's a backup in order processing. Worry if Jeff makes a habit of it long after a game is newly released.

—Alorael, who can only say that Linda has a less than sterling reputation on these boards. She is known for questionable decisions enforced with a heavy hand.

Okay, I MUST know - why is is my suggestion of firing Linda and replacing her with a juicer so widely embraced? What else has she done to earn the reputation of having a temper worse than a Peroc warrior forced to watch endless reruns of "I Love Lucy"?

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
A Trip to the Confessional in Richard White Games
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #49
It was my idea! And Icshi IS correct - if Spidy did have the registration option online, I would have registered it. I don't know if that's a sign of the moral decay of Western Civilization or the merely a symptom of an advancing brain tumor.

I actually sent an email several days ago asking two questions:

(1) What is RW's family's address to send a condolence card; and
(2) Is it still possible to register GC. No response yet, but I'll post it here if and when I get anything.

On another note, has anyone else noticed a rather, uh, dramatic decline in SW customer service? I remember having Geneforge, and other games, registered, and receiving replies essentially immediately. When I registered GFIII, the reply took more than a week, and several emails on my part. Are my standards unrealistic? Should Linda be fired and replaced with a juicer?

Z

[ Tuesday, July 05, 2005 18:17: Message edited by: Zorro ]

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Damn you Icshi! Damn you!!!!!! in Richard White Games
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #0
Your constant messages about the quality of Galactic Core have nearly driven me insane! I redownloaded it last night, and.... kind of enjoyed it.... (I won the Federation campaign in record time)

Thank Zeus that you can't register it online anymore, or I may well have bought it on impulse!

I can't believe I actually considered buying GC. I must now contribute to the swear jar.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
A Trip to the Confessional in Richard White Games
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #42
quote:
Originally written by Icshi:



EDIT: Speaking of tastelessness, what's all this about hyenas? Are you telling me I completely missed out on this wonderful conversation? :confused:

Some time ago, we had a running discussion as to whether it was preferable to to (a) play an entire campaign of Galactic Core, or (b) butter up you left leg and enter a cage full of hungry hyenas.

Given the choices, the answer would seem obvious, but a surprising number of people were willing to take their chances with Galactic Core.

Z

Vote Quimby!

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
RW is Alive! in Richard White Games
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #14
What????

So Richard White didn't go up to the great Galactic Core in the sky?

He must be hard at work on "Galactic Core II: Revenge of the Mildly Annoying".

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
A Trip to the Confessional in Richard White Games
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #37
quote:
Originally written by Icshi:



But seriously, the music is kinda nice. Just don't do what I did, and play GC for five straight hours. The <dum-dum-dum, dum-dum-dum... BRUM-BRUM-BRUM-BRUM!!! dum-dum-dum..., dum-dum-dum...> music on the ship-building screen alone will kill you after prolonged exposure.


This forum has had discussions about hyenas eating a persons legs. This forum has had lengthy discourses on why we hate Galactic Core so much. Heck, this forum even had a member ADMIT he likes Galactic Core. But this has to be a new low for this already-subterranean forum - you actually spelled out the tune to Galactic Core.

Have you no decency? At long last, have you no decency?

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
A Trip to the Confessional in Richard White Games
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #36
My friends - I believe a solution exists to our Galactic Core dilemma!

We should set up a special paypal account in which we all contribute an appropriate amount of money (say 25 cents). You must pay into this account any time you consider *gasp* registering GC. Its sort of like a swear jar and AA all rolled into one.

Think of it, one anonymous person has already admitted that he purchased GC. He hasn't achieved step one yet (admit you have a problem) but with time, and a little patience, perhaps he will. And to think he could have spent that $15 on Homeland!

The GC jar will eventually accrue enough money to buy a copy of GC so we can send it to TM. This way, he will get some perspective on how bad a game can be, and he will quit acting like a crazed orangoutang any time he plays a BoA scenario made by a non BoEer.

You see? Everybody wins!

Vote Quimby.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
A Trip to the Confessional in Richard White Games
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #31
I tried Galactic Core and, were it not for that stupid Brady Bill waiting period, would have proceeded to purchase a gun and blast myself into sweet, sweet oblivion... An oblivion without GC....

GC may be a mind-numbingly easy and silly game, but the music isn't as bad as it sounds.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Rpgs for Mac in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #9
quote:
Originally written by bogus standard candidate:



Also, and these are old/not so old: Warlords I and II (damn corporations didn't let them do III for Mac. Unless someone did so later???)

Its worse than that - SSG, the company that made the warlords series, began as an Apple II developer of wargames. All of their games came out on the Mac, and were better than the PC versions. All was right in the world.

But then... during the Apple death spiral days of 1997, they completely abandoned the Mac platform to focus on PC games, and hence, never made another Mac game.

Fortunately, this sad story has a happy ending! SSG was suddenly launched into the incredibly hostile and competitive waters of PC gaming and got killed at the cash register. They fled into a joint partnership with SSI for protection and then SSI went bankrupt! So they could no longer sell their games on shelves anywhere except Australia. Since then, the few remaining SSG "employees" had to take outside jobs to support themselves, and now they release crappy shareware wargames for the PC at the rate of one every 3 years or so, and they are only sold in downloadable format. Oh yeah, and they had to sell the warlords franchise to some other company.

Ah yes... Nothing makes the pain melt away like the hideous failure of others.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Middle of the road viewpoint in Geneforge Series
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #38
I read one of Jeff's articles on Irony Central in which he talks about common RPGs, and mentions that you know the evil guys because they're different from you - and usually at is enough. He clearly thinks this crude standard for violence is inappropriate.

I have to say, I had to stop playing Geneforge 3 recently. I was playing a Shaper, and really following my conscience (trying VERY hard to answer all the questions as I would myself), and I began to have regrets for my own Creations. I know this sounds totally weird, but I stopped being okay with creating sentient creations which then often were sent into suicidal missions so I could get some essence pods or something equally trivial. Has anyone else had that kind of unease?

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Rpgs for Mac in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #7
quote:
Originally written by Dolphin:

I like RPGs that have an in-depth story, and aren't only mindless blood and guts. Open-ended is very nice as well.
You might want to check out Odyssey: the legend of nemesis. This RPG was made freeware recently by its author. It truly has a wonderful RPG story, and you have a lot of freedom to do things your own way. I remember really enjoying it back in the day.

You can download it at http://www.paranoidproductions.com/odyssey

Other ones you'll probably enjoy are Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II. BG II, in particular, is a dandy.

I hear the fallout games are great, but never tried them.

Another War, and RPG set during WWII, is really interesting. I very much enjoy that one as well.

Also, for RPGs that are a bit different, I really enjoy Freedom Force. It is an RPG where you play a band of super-heroes. The story is wonderfully cartoony. If you don't take your RPGs too seriously, that one is quite fun.

Some people really like Neverwinter Nights. I'm not one of them. The engine is great, but the included module is terrible, and the modules I downloaded pretty much sucked as well.

However, that may just be me - I'm finding myself less and less attracted to "traditional" AD&D-style RPGs. I think the last one I really enjoyed was BGII, and that was several years ago. Since then, I've really enjoyed the Geneforges, Escape Velocity: Nova, Freedom Force, and Another War.

Has anyone else noticed that sci-fi RPGs tend to be much more dystopian in their outlook? I mean, in Sword & Sorcery RPGs, the good guys tend to be heroic and attractive and perfect, and the bad guys are ugly and mean and fatally flawed. In sci-fi RPGs, it seems like everyone is ugly and mean and fatally flawed - and you have to choose the least-worse option, or even merely survive.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Rpgs for Mac in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #2
Yikes! Ambrosia's RPGs are rather...uh....horrid. With the notable exception of the action/RPG Escape Velocity: Nova.

I really hate Pillars of Garandel. When I tried it, I hated it instantly, its like a crappy Diablo except your character has a mullet!

If you want my advice on mac RPGs, tell us a bit more about what kind of RPGs you enjoy.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
The International Contest of Spider Games shall now commence! in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #46
quote:
Originally written by Le Martyre de la Terreur:

Simultaneously, you could potentially have a super-awesome scenario creation device with nothing but novices and dolts. Would you argue that such a program has higher "quality" than BoE?
Actually, the about sums up my feelings about Neverwinter Nights. I think the engine is extremely high quality, and pretty much all (with maybe one or two exceptions) of the user-generated content (and even the pro-generated content) is utter crap.

However, if you want me to concede that the scenarios and the engines are inseparable, then you're asking me to say all the BoE scenarios suck without having played them - again, because of the engine. I don't think its fair to do that, but in your case I'll make an exception ;) (with apologies to Groucho Marx)

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
The International Contest of Spider Games shall now commence! in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #40
Let me refer you back to the actual question that was asked - which is the highest quality SW game - not which one is the most fun, or which one you like best, or which one is the best value. So I agree with you that customers who get BoE do so for the user-generated content, or the ability to create user-generated content. Hell, that's why I bought BoE, but I don't think that adds to its quality.

And I think you've also got an excellent point - my view is definitely driven by my dislike of the Exile engine. I just don't think it is a quality engine. But I do want to make clear that my dislike for the Exile engine doesn't imply I think user-generated creations are somehow low quality. I just don't enjoy the game experience and therefore can't get into the user-generated content. From the comments of others, that isn't an unusual position.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Favorite Spiderweb Game in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #17
I doth protest! Two of my top three choices are not included on this poll. No Nethergate and no Geneforge 3 choices? What, have you been living in Avernum?

I refuse to take part of this defective poll!

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
The International Contest of Spider Games shall now commence! in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #38
quote:
Originally written by Ash Lael:


I'd say that having scenarios like An Apology improves the quality by a fair chunk, given that that scenario alone is more fun and in my opinion better than most commercial games. Certainly better than any Spidweb game.

I think it's a pointless distinction to say that BoE is not good but it has good scenarios. The scenarios are a part (a very large part) of what BoE is. Did Jeff do a better job on other games? For sure. Are any of the others comparable in either hours of game-time or the quality of the experience? In my opinion, no, not by a long way. Maybe if we were only comparing the scenario editors, or only comparing the engines, but even then, it's debatable.


I disagree that one should take into account user-generated content when determining the quality for two reasons - one is that it turns comparisons between games and game-designing systems into apples and oranges, a comparison which provides an inherent advantage to the game design system. And two because motivated, dedicated and, in a couple of cases, talented third-party people can make a game better, but they're still third-party people. They were not paid to contribute content, and thus the game design system should be judged on its individual strengths and weaknesses.

For instance, I've heard from a number of people how great certain BoE scenarios are, and I have no reason to believe they're lying to me, but I've never played them. The reason I've never played them is that, despite multiple attempts, I just can't get into BoE because I dislike the dialogue system (I hate guessing random words until I learn the single "key" that will spring the information I need - I prefer Geneforge's system of dialogue threads.), I'm not really fond of the character creation system, and the graphics don't really set the mood for me. The point is that the BoE game design system gets in my way of enjoying what may well be tremendous user-generated story and content.

Imagine that BoE produced scenarios using the Baldur's Gate engine - very similar in the sense that it is also based on the concept of "towns" to explore. I would find that a much more inviting and playable game engine. If the BoE engine were like the Baldur's Gate engine, and the scenarios were otherwise the same (in terms of story and content), they'd reach what I imagine would be a far wider audience that doesn't have the patience for the Exile engine. Game engine matters.

So, given the above, I think it does a disservice to the designers themselves NOT to separate out engine from user-generated content. It isn't the designer's fault that they've got to work around a buggy system which turns many people off before they get into the story. It is no more their fault than if an author's wonderful book is printed on cheap paper with light ink that make it difficult to read. Why should they be judged by the engine's faults? So I repeat my point that the quality of BoE scenarios, if anything, make the engine's defects stand out more vividly.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
The International Contest of Spider Games shall now commence! in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #30
quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

It's good because of what the designers have done with it; they've done a great deal, and much of it is very good in numerous ways. There's a lot of enjoyment in those hundreds of scenarios, even if half aren't worth playing. If you want to go by what designers could do with the engine, then yes, I suppose BoA may be better, but we'll just have to wait and see.

(If it seems like I'm showing more charity to the BoE/BoA designers than to Jeff, well, maybe that's because Jeff's just doing his job, while designers are volunteering for the good of the community.)

That's a fair point - the value of BoE is the work of the BoE designers. A point I'm completely ready to concede. But that speaks against the credit of BoE, not to its credit, beyond that it provided a flawed canvas for some nice art.

It is clear to me that Jeff put more effort and attention to detail to Geneforge 3 than BoE, therefore I think Geneforge 3 deserves to be considered a higher quality game. Not necessarily a better value, and not necessarily more fun, just more professional in look and feel.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
The second weekly international spiderweb contest will now begin in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #0
I saw the previous post about the highest quality Spiderweb game, and I wondered what the lowest quality Spiderweb game is. Vegas book keepers have placed substantial bets on Galactic Core and Homeland.

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 30 user(s) have voted.
Voting stopped at April 20, 2005 09:15 AM board time.

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
The International Contest of Spider Games shall now commence! in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #28
I also want to point out the question was for the Spiderweb game of the highest overall quality, not your favorite. I think it is clear that BoE, while perhaps a better value due to the efforts of some third-party designers, isn't really that good.

I find it an odd fact that BoEistas bash Jeff with no mercy for not correcting bugs in the engine, then assert its the highest quality game. What am I to make of this?

Also, despite BoE's popularity in terms of scenario designs by number of scenarios, that still doesn't improve quality - it only improves quantity.

Given that the criterion described by the initial post in this topic was about quality - to paraphrase others on this board, I think anyone who says the highest quality spiderweb game is BoE is an idiot, or doesn't understand the concept of quality and is therefore an idiot. And your mama too. (Please note that this comment is delivered in the spirit of irony, and not to provoke a flame war. Its really just a gentle nudge in the ribs. If you disagree, please inform us why BoE, despite its flaws and archaic engine, is still higher quality than, say, Geneforge 3 or BoA.)

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
The International Contest of Spider Games shall now commence! in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #16
I think I agree that Geneforge 2 is the most "polished" of the Spiderweb games. Geneforge 3 is probably a close second, and arguably first.

As you can see from other posts, the Blades of XYZ have a fanatical following among some of the board members, and as someone who owns both, I can tell you that I think they fail the "newbie" test. In the sense that they're very hard games to get into. For BoE, the graphics and engine are nearly two decades out of date, which seriously limits the casual gamers ability to enjoy them. And BoA is only about a decade out-of-date engine, but lacks the fanatical fanbase of BoE.

I would also like to take issue with the common assertion among the Bladesistas that BoE scenarios are someone the best game designs ever. I'm sure they have their charm, but come on. At best, they've milked a below average game development tool for everything its worth. Unfortunately, even questioning this dogma usually results in charges of heresy and questioning of mental health and/or sexual orientation.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Favorite Author in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #11
What about Hunter S Thompson? Nothing makes me want to ruin my life like reading "Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail". That man has style!

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Middle of the road viewpoint in Geneforge Series
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #1
Interesting point, but I think it is actually more realistic that the more extreme elements of each faction are entrenching. Usually, the liberalization of ideas occurs during a peaceful time when disagreements can be explored with little fear of violent consequences. During times of war, a line in the sand tends to get drawn - you're either with us or against us.

The world of Geneforge is now literally at war - and serviles and shapers have to choose their sides and be very clear about where their loyalties lie. Remember, the Takers always seemed to hate the Awakened as much (if not more) than the Obeyers. This was because if they, fundamentally, believed that the Takers were correct to be pissed at being abandoned to die by the Shapers, then they should agree with their views.

I'm not sure who said that truth is a war's first casualty - perhaps rational inquiry and agreement to disagree and the second and third casualties

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
General thoughts and comments in Geneforge Series
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #16
Hi Drakefyre:

Where did you get that quote? I assume it is Jeff's.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Are there any plans for multiplayer games? in General
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #16
I suppose a model that could be adopted by Avernum would be the original AOL Neverwinter Nights. That game was built on the old SSI Goldbox AD&D series engine. You would join up with other characters, and one would be the leader who would move the party around. In combat, you had something like 5 or 10 seconds to conduct your action, and then it would move to the next person. It was actually a lot of fun and rather clever!

I think the main difficulty is that multiplayer is a feature that would take an enormous amount of effort to implement and debug, and it isn't clear that it would be a compelling selling point. Other similar RPGs include a multiplayer component, such as Baldur's Gate, but it seems most people prefer to play it in single player mode. Other games, such as the new Neverwinter Nights, rely on the multiplayer aspect to sell the entire game - so they sacrifice story and single player experience in exchange for multiplayer. Others, like Diablo, are pretty much built to be multiplayer, with the single player being just an offline version of the game.

Just some random musings about the nature of the RPG industry.

[ Friday, April 08, 2005 04:30: Message edited by: Zorro ]

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00

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