General thoughts and comments

AuthorTopic: General thoughts and comments
Warrior
Member # 4345
Profile #0
I didn't see one of these. What do you think of the game so far?

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"Damn Scots. They ruined scotland!"-Groundskeeper Willy, the Simpsons
Posts: 96 | Registered: Tuesday, May 4 2004 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 4548
Profile #1
Charming? Enchanting?

I love those cool trees! I want one for my back yard so I can sit beneath it and read and contemplate stuff and eat a pear for energy. They look kind of like olive trees.

Lots of options. Lots of choices. Hmmmmmmm. This game is a bit more difficult than the others because of that. It has many more original ideas than I had thought it would have. It seems more than just an extension of Geneforge.

Anyway, I'm an agent traveling with the two companons. We stop at vacant houses to rest and store stuff. I liked being an agent in 1 and 2, but it sometimes got lonely just traveling around so I would make one or two little creations for company. But with the new characters, this has elements of Avernum. I like eating food. (lol)

But what will become of my traveling companions? :( :)

Bekah
ready to leave Harmony Island in some way, it's a choice, you see, and I don' t know what to do!

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No fear, no brains.
J. Joyce.... Ulysses
Posts: 8 | Registered: Tuesday, June 15 2004 07:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #2
GF3 seems, like the rest, rife with rogues- Jeff offers mildly more convincing dialogue and more choices, but the choices are still opaque.

The beginning was the worst failure- it should have been faster. The tutorial should have been a part of the school with Hoge giving a lecture or something.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Shaper
Member # 22
Profile #3
I've yet to play it but...

quote:
Geneforge 3 has a huge and open storyline. You can help one of several factions, each with its own goals. There are dozens of different endings. You can help the rebels, or fight them.
I'm sure glad that Jeff hasn't been running out of original plotlines.
Posts: 2862 | Registered: Tuesday, October 2 2001 07:00
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #4
This is the product of copy/paste syndrome.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #5
Isn't that "one of several factions" part a bit misleading? Aren't there only two factions?

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 4345
Profile #6
I think its pretty good....the demo's a little short so I can't see many people who haven't played GF1 or 2 buying it...although that doesn't matter much to me. The graphics are quite good and and the general gameplay is superb. The only complaints I have are as follows:
- Why can't you buy equipment for Greta or Aldwin?
- To echo Kelandon, there are only two factions.
- I looked at the list of abilities and creations. Are there no new creations or spells? I know there are the worms and crawlers, but I mean is there nothing you can make? Maybe serviles will be a "secret" creation like ornks if we're lucky.

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"Damn Scots. They ruined scotland!"-Groundskeeper Willy, the Simpsons
Posts: 96 | Registered: Tuesday, May 4 2004 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #7
Greta and Alwan can have their attacks improved several times.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
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You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 4345
Profile #8
No I'm saying that you should be able to buy weapons and armour for them at any store, just the same way you get weapons and armour.

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"Damn Scots. They ruined scotland!"-Groundskeeper Willy, the Simpsons
Posts: 96 | Registered: Tuesday, May 4 2004 07:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #9
[Decides to interpret this thread as giving license to state the obvious.]

It doesn't have new spells or player creations. The new plot stream of normal humans resenting Shaper dominance is an excellent development, because it seems to tie everything else in the GF world down to reality (as it were). So far, though, it does not seem to me to be the eye-popper that the 'Taker way' of bootstrap godhood was in G2, for example.

Instead the big step in G3 is a lot of engine development, with a lot of ingenuity and variety in tactical challenges, and in lots of other game events as well.

This is fine by me. It's not at all what I was expecting of G3 -- I was expecting a fifth tier of creations, etc. -- so it's a surprise. I'm enjoying it very much so far (about halfway through Dhonal's Isle for the first time, with a singleton Agent, of the traditional speed-and-violence build, on Torment). At this point it looks like I could also enjoy replaying it a few more times, making different major decisions.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Shaper
Member # 5437
Profile #10
I took Greta and Alwan to see who would get fed up with me first. Alwan shouted at me how I tainted him with my breaking of Shaper laws. Greta was quite pleased by it. I want to see if she will get freaked out when I've used many canisters, or when she sees the geneforge.

Alwan had a bit of a big mouth anyways. He told off the shade in the innermost mines on the first island. The shade paid no attention to him, but I can see how he would possibly cause problems. Greta tends to whisper to me rather than just blurt things out, so far at least.

Edit: Yes, I assumed so as they were always bickering. I'd have figured he would have left sooner than that as he disapproved of most things. I tend to read into these types of things too much.

[ Sunday, April 03, 2005 15:15: Message edited by: Dolphin ]
Posts: 2032 | Registered: Wednesday, January 26 2005 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #11
Well, you can only take one with you off Dhonal Isle, but I think you already knew that.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
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You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4214
Profile #12
The game screen can't be minimized, which forces me to quit the game - which happens rather slow, as well - every time I wish to do something else, which is rather irritating.

The preloading screen and preloading music of the previous Geneforge games were far superior of those of Geneforge 3, which gives a rather bad first impression.

Some drawings are rather unfinished, and the general lay-out could be somewhat better.

Also, the AI can no longer be enabled.
Posts: 356 | Registered: Tuesday, April 6 2004 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 4592
Profile #13
Well, Geneforge is Geneforge, I know that's circular and simplistic. As I was playing it in the beginning I was a bit dissapointed, again with the descriptions of what everything was (I know they are supposed to be stand alones, and I know that so far they have all taken place in remote/not known locations so a Student is not supposed to know many things, but, still, it got repetitive for me.)

I hope that by GF4, we don't get this anymore. There is a war. Drakons exist. Deal with it. We know about them. We don't need to be told what a weird thing they are, ditto with Spawners, etc. I hope GF4 addresses this, instead of again the Wow Golly feeling of the first three (completely understandable in 1 and 2, and I guess justifiable in 3 since we're students.)

I loved the graphics.

I actually enjoyed the fact that this time there were only 2 factions, at first I didn't, but eventually I did, and that within the confines of the storyline.

I had some problems with the dialogue choices, in so far as some events that take place I think should give you new dialogue: for instance, if you go to Lankan after you destroy the Rogues, shouldn't he say something about, or you get the chance to boast to him? (if that happens, I've forgotten it)

Or, with Lord Raul and Lady A. (I've mentioned this before in other threads) As a Loyalist servile sympathizer, Lady A. refused to train me in Greater Shaper Arts the first time. Fine. But after I destroyed the Geneforge (isn't that prove enough of my commitment to the cause) she still had the same dialogue and choices. This can be justified any number of ways but I think, and this may just be me, that it would be cool to at least have the dialogue choice to say something: "I destroyed the Geneforge, can you train me now?" Even though I know, by then, more than she can train me. Or, after I help Agatha in Gull?

Speaking of Agatha: If you rescue her, she goes to Stonespire and takes over. Fine.

But I also rescued her after I killed all the Serviles in Stonespire (and the human alchemist) and there was no dialogue option to let me tell her this.

GF3, like the prior ones, was full of Rogues and little else. That is beginning to be a little. . . tiresome for me. Okay, if that's what it is, that's what it is, but are there no other threats in this world? Is that because the Shapers are so supreme that they have destroyed all nasty creatures except those of their own making?

Granted, and this I liked a lot, this time you had more choice of enemies, Servilewise. That was cool, at least some variety.

Going Island to Island is okay. But after having played it, I do miss the style of 1 and 2, where you could choose a little more what sections you wanted to do. Your choices here are limited within each island.

It seems that GF4 will be in a continent, so that's back to basics.

But this is all nitpicking. In the end I enjoyed the game immensely. After all I may say, I do get a kick out of hacking and slashing rogues, and disarming traps (we got a new type this time around, right? Or were the flat round ones in GF2?), the cool new graphics for Spawners (they look like monstrous vaginas to me, but. . . nevermind, scary train of thought) the gorgeous trees, the snow, etc.

I've always liked Jeff games, so I'm way too biased here.

I think the Exile games are beautiful and have some of the most elegant graphics around (yeah, 2d and all, but it's all in perspective, playing those games make me feel like I did when I played Ultima III in a Mac way way back in 80s. If you've ever seen the U III Mac Version and the PC version you might see what I mean), I think the Avernum/Nethergate series have some very nice graphics (don't like the way human beings look, though), and I speacially like in them the terrain variations, which give me a very strong 3d feeling.

GF3: I can't remember a really annoying region, like the Mines or Power Core from GF1.

The combat heavy regions had a couple of toughies as we went along, with the Monastery Caves as, perhaps, the toughest of the game in this regard.

I didn't pick a companion, will do it another game, so I don't know how that plays out, but from reading other posts here, they interact with you, which seems cool.

The dialogue was okay, but as strong as it was in GF1 or GF2 or, for that matter, as in the Exile/Avernum series or Nethergate.

I found a couple of bugs:

a) I could not forge wands. Only the Terror Wand. I'd believe that I had made a mistake writing down the ingredients if I had had problems with one or two, but it was with all of them. I had also problems with the Claw of the Demon (and unless there is another call Demon Claws, that's the one), and I could not forget the Items that needed it. I also had a problem forging a couple of other items.

b) In Gull, I gave the journal first to Karoa (Karona, sp?) and then went to Morgan and I still had both halves in my special items, so I gave it to him as well.

(Incidentally, I thought hthe Karoa sub plot was very nice, but ended anti-climatically, she wanted to attack me and I had enough leadership to convince her not to. Still, it was a neat little detail)

There may be a way, and I will feel like a big dumb idiot if there is, but here's something I found annoying:

Island Hopping. I wish I could have had the choice of which Island I returned to instead of having to walk to the different docks.

I do like the way the written ending was. At least the one I got.

For GF4 I won't expect anything different. I hope this time when the character sees a Spawner there's, perhaps still the sensation of "Wow! This is illegal!" but also a "but you have heard of these things"

I also hope for more creations.

Other than that, it probably will be the same: rogues all over the place, some shades, serviles going nuts, a few annoying power plant/mine like regions, mines, two factions (maybe more this time?) and some kind of Geneforge at some point.

Anyway. As I said, in the end, very very cool game.

Salud!

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quote:

"I suffer from spiritual malaise," said Cugel meaningfully. "which manifest itself in outburst of vicious rage. I implore you to depart, lest, in an uncontrollable spasm, I cut you in three pieces with my sword, or worse, I invoke magic."
Random Jack Vance Quote Manual Generator Apparatus (Cugel's Saga)
Posts: 604 | Registered: Sunday, June 20 2004 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 5652
Profile #14
I guess I'll put in my two cents:

As of now I've gotten to Dhonal's keep, and I am quite impressed. Geneforge 3 is the most developed of the three games. Each one has its own unique attributes.

GF1 was interesting because it was the first. you actually got to make these creations and order them around. You got to learn about the shapers for the first time, and he history of sucia Island was very well written. The factions were not entirely critical to how you played the game, as they basically gave you free stuff and advice with what to do with the geneforge. Ultimately, the decision came at the end of the game, and for the most part, the endings were happy ones.

In GF1, you mainly got the perspective of the shapers from serviles who had gotten smart, had looked at the shpaer/servile relationship themselves, and decided whether they liked it or not. Also, later in the game, you get the perspective of outsiders who were new to the technology.

However, GF1 was still a little...primitive. The spells were few, the world really didn't change based on your actions, and the options for stealth/diplomacy were not as strong as the force method.

GF2 was also a great game because of the new creations and spells. There was a clever link between GF1 and 2, and world actually changed based on your canister use and what you say.

What I didn't like with GF2 was the factions. They seemed formulaic to me, and you really didn't get much explanation beyond "This is what our faction believes, now join us" from the faction leaders. In GF1, you got to hear from all three factions when you were about 1/4 through the game, in GF2, It takes you about 3/4 of the game to get to the takers. The idea that all four of them are at perfect stalemate isn't very plausible, and the missions they give you are redundant.

In GF3, you get an excellent view of the shaper world: Through the eyes of many different well developed secondary characters. The world is very fluid, as how you act in one island affects the other. Alwan and Greta offer great insight. You are given several choices whether to help the shapers or rebels or stay neutral, which don't automatically disqualify you from parts of the rest of the game.

Although only two choices does seem a little limited (keep in mind I've just gotten to Dhonal's keep).

They underground levels are a clever touch, and the stealth/diplomacy tricks are very well thought out. Rushing in full throttle no longer works anymore (at least not when fighting the four spawners/two servant minds on harmony)

That's my thoughts. Hope you enjoy the game as much as I am

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"Many minds make quick work of uncertainty"
Posts: 36 | Registered: Thursday, March 31 2005 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #15
I've been debating whether or not I should post this, but I don't really see why not, right now.

quote:
All in all, I'm pretty happy with this world. It still followed the old
Geneforge formula, perhaps too much near the end, but the island structure
and the series of short stories thing is new and works OK. The next game in
the series will be very different, plotwise. (For starters, you will not
play a Shaper.)


[ Saturday, April 09, 2005 03:40: Message edited by: Drakefyre ]

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
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You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #16
Hi Drakefyre:

Where did you get that quote? I assume it is Jeff's.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #17
It's part of a beta-testing email.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 4592
Profile #18
Thanks Drakey, for the quote. It's interesting to read stuff like that, since one can understand better what went on behind the scenes as far as decision making.

I hope he sticks to his idea that in #4 we won't start as a Shaper. The fact that he also has a different plot for #4, that it will break the Geneforge routine is wonderful.

An aside note: I'm playing GF2 again. Does the Infernal Shaper in the "Experimental Chambers" turn into a Demon if I attack him?

I have this residual memory that a Demon can be fought in GF2, but. . . am I remembering something or is that an invented memory?

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quote:

"I suffer from spiritual malaise," said Cugel meaningfully. "which manifest itself in outburst of vicious rage. I implore you to depart, lest, in an uncontrollable spasm, I cut you in three pieces with my sword, or worse, I invoke magic."
Random Jack Vance Quote Manual Generator Apparatus (Cugel's Saga)
Posts: 604 | Registered: Sunday, June 20 2004 07:00
Warrior
Member # 5701
Profile #19
I'm thoroughly enjoying it. Between Doom 3 and Geneforge 3, the only games I've been playing lately have been on my Mac! :)
My xbox sits untouched for weeks on end.
Posts: 64 | Registered: Tuesday, April 12 2005 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4214
Profile #20
quote:
As I was playing it in the beginning I was a bit dissapointed, again with the descriptions of what everything was (I know they are supposed to be stand alones, and I know that so far they have all taken place in remote/not known locations so a Student is not supposed to know many things, but, still, it got repetitive for me.)
I agree. The stories of Geneforge 1, 2 and 3 are too similar.

quote:
I loved the graphics.
In my opinion, the graphics of the environment, indeed, greatly improved. The desert no longer looks like a toxic wasteland, and the new tilesets have a very good style.

quote:
I had some problems with the dialogue choices, in so far as some events that take place I think should give you new dialogue: for instance, if you go to Lankan after you destroy the Rogues, shouldn't he say something about, or you get the chance to boast to him? (if that happens, I've forgotten it)
The dialogue choices irritated me as well. I could not even discuss with Litalia about her moral issues. I didn't have the option to attempt to convince her how senseless and unnecessary the war was.

The Shapers certainly astoundingly mistreat their creations, but Litalia intends to sacrifice many hundreds of millions of lives to achieve her goals, and uses Skill Canisters, which poison and corrupt the mind.
Posts: 356 | Registered: Tuesday, April 6 2004 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 3115
Profile #21
quote:
Originally written by Mind:

The game screen can't be minimized, which forces me to quit the game - which happens rather slow, as well - every time I wish to do something else, which is rather irritating.

If you're in OS X, hitting Command-tab will switch to the finder. You can then hide GF and do what you want with the game still running.

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Consciousness (n): That annoying period between naps.
Posts: 42 | Registered: Tuesday, June 17 2003 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 5649
Profile #22
What I really liked about GF3:
- The NPC companions, Greta and Alwan. This concept could get old if it was overdone. But I liked the way that the main character could interact and develop with these NPCs. The way they could chime into conversations sometimes and provide an commentary. And of course, when you have both of them along, the way that they squabble with each other. Oh, and that they never really get killed!
- The crafting system, at least once I figured out how it worked and got a few recipes from here. Suggestion for GF4: Make it a lot easier for people to find and store the recipes in-game.
- The introduction of the Outsider humans as another group with possible problems with the rule of the Shapers.

What I have mixed feelings about:
- The archipelago setting. Yes, the boats were annoying and made it very time-consuming (in both game time and real time) to go even between Harmony Island & Greenwood (the shortest jaunt, but one I did many times because of NPC companions getting hurt). On the other hand, I liked the different settings and atmospheres which each island offered. The quarantine was useful concept, but also quite a tired one - to someone who's played E3, A3 and VoDT.

What I didn't like:
- As mentioned in another thread, the lack of a middle of the road option, and that the two factions are both very nasty.
Posts: 9 | Registered: Thursday, March 31 2005 08:00