Blades of Geneforge

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AuthorTopic: Blades of Geneforge
Apprentice
Member # 5402
Profile #0
Any ideas/suggestions? I have a few...

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I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

-Bilbo Baggins, "The Fellowship of the Ring"
Posts: 3 | Registered: Saturday, January 15 2005 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #1
That Jeff wait until he's done releasing GFs before he releases BoG. That is, I don't want to see a GF4 come after a BoG, because that would just be annoying.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 4345
Profile #2
I don't understand. If he were to make a GF4 it should be before BoG or he shouldn't make one at all? Sorry I'm just not sure what you mean.

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"Damn Scots. They ruined scotland!"-Groundskeeper Willy, the Simpsons
Posts: 96 | Registered: Tuesday, May 4 2004 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #3
The former. As opposed to what he did with the Avernums.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #4
*Averna :P

I honestl don't care about BoG much. If Jeff shows us that it can be used for anything more than wanna-be pokemon quasi-scifi, I might be vaguely interested. As it stands, though, I don't think anyone other than machine fetishists or herptophiles could really swallow a pill like that.

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人 た ち を 燃 え る た め に 俺 は か れ ら に 火 を 上 げ る か ら 死 ん だ
Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 3698
Profile Homepage #5
as long as there is an editor for GF i m fine . . .

[ Tuesday, January 18, 2005 16:17: Message edited by: Tbg10101 ]

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Posts: 179 | Registered: Tuesday, November 18 2003 08:00
Warrior
Member # 5343
Profile #6
blades of geneforge should come before geneforge 4 because exile games 1,2,3, blades and that is the same avernum.

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Mu Ha Ha Ha
Posts: 70 | Registered: Saturday, January 1 2005 08:00
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #7
Right now my primary criticism is the lack of default graphics because of the intrinsic difficulty with making them. Every GF game has increased the number available. Hopefully, we will eventually get more, but as it stands now, there is not much we can really do outside basic GF adventures.

quote:
blades of geneforge should come before geneforge 4 because exile games 1,2,3, blades and that is the same avernum.
Yes, just because it has been done this way in the past, means we should do it now even though the circumstances are vastly different.

[ Saturday, January 22, 2005 09:48: Message edited by: *i ]

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #8
Stareye, since I know that as an admin you're bound by a stronger code of conduct than we regular members, please allow me to call Kaos a gibbering moron on your behalf.

[ Saturday, January 22, 2005 12:30: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Agent
Member # 3349
Profile Homepage #9
The thing is, Blades of Exile was the first "Blades" game. Because Jeff re-did the Exile Trilogy to make them have better graphics, he naturally made Blades Of Avernum. If he makes a Blades of Geneforge (shudder) he'd probably have to make a Blades of Nethergate and other absurd things.

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And everybody say....Yatta!
Posts: 1287 | Registered: Thursday, August 14 2003 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 5420
Profile #10
I, quite frankly, agree with Holy Toenail Remix.
Posts: 1 | Registered: Saturday, January 22 2005 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #11
I don't follow your logic at all. First of all, there will be at least one more GF game after GF3 before BoG. GF2 and GF3 were already made with a GF Campaign Editor, which means that BoG basically already exists.

And I for one would welcome BoG, since the Geneforge engine allows some things that would be impossible in Avernum, but I am a bit worried that the GF engine doesn't allow for much expansion beyond the shaper world.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Warrior
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Well, I think that a BOG should be made ASAP. (Moslty because I want to make some scenerios, but knowing my level of competance they will be rated 0 out of 5) It doesn't really matter what order it comes in. As for a blades of nethergate, I get the impression it wasn't as popular. Either that, or that the plot ends there, Its just hard to make a sequel to that kind of game.
As for plotline.... um... ok.. Some odd scenerio where someone takes active action against the shapers, or that the shapers fell and you became a mercenary.. or.... I don't know, I think thats the editor's problem, not mine.
(Oh, Drakefyre, I never saw any editors for GF2, besides the character editors, no scenerio editors. So, if im missing something please tell me, thanks!)

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Learn from others mistakes. Its safer
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Posts: 100 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #13
quote:
Originally written by Drakefyre:
GF2 and GF3 were already made with a GF Campaign Editor, which means that BoG basically already exists.
I don't suppose you've remembered since the last time that you mentioned this where you you heard this. I've been able to find statements from Jeff that he wanted to make a GF scenario editor — he said this for GF1 — but not that he ever did.

Not that I doubt you, but just that I wonder how I am so out of the loop.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shaper
Member # 73
Profile #14
The problem with releasing a scenario editor and then releasing another game in the series afterward is that by releasing a scenario editor, he is basically giving us the world he created. Then, by releasing another game afterward, there's a very good chance that what he releases will directly contradict what the scenarios say. The fact that he is releasing an Avernum 4 after over 200 BoE scenarios have already been released is what is angering the BoE/A community right now, in addition to his lack of support for the community.

[ Sunday, January 23, 2005 06:41: Message edited by: The Almighty Doer of Stuff ]

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Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #15
There was definitely a screenshot from the campaign editor either in an interview or on a screenshot page. Besides that evidence, the campaign editor does seem to exist, and most beta testers will tell you that there is some sort of editor making the games, not just pure coding.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #16
quote:
Originally written by The1Kobra:

Well, I think that a BOG should be made ASAP. (Moslty because I want to make some scenerios, but knowing my level of competance they will be rated 0 out of 5)
The GF Campaign Editor has many of the same features as BoA. It does not have the "real time" animation, but meh. If you want to download scenarios, get Blades of Avernum. There is really no need for a GF Campaign Editor right now. Also, Jeff has clearly stated he will not release another scenario editor for a VERY long time (think 5 years time scale) because of the sheer daunting effort it takes.

Yes, GF does have a primitive campaign editor. It is not ready for the level of a consumer product. There are many clues to this effect if you look at the graphics file. You will see a lot of "symbolic" graphics representing actual pieces of terrain. Besides that, Jeff has stated that one exists somewhere. Don't look for it, because it is not public, and you probably would not want to use it even if you found it.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Agent
Member # 2820
Profile #17
Making scenarios and campaigns for Geneforge would be no less difficult than making BoA ones.

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What do I put here?
-Garrison
Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00
Warrior
Member # 5363
Profile Homepage #18
Perhaps, then again, its all based on how the scenerio editor is made, so it might be easy to understand. Of course, it could be nearly impossible to use the thing. Who knows, he hasn't made the thing yet.

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Learn from others mistakes. Its safer
and more entertaining than learning on your own.
Posts: 100 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #19
quote:
Originally written by Garrison:
Making scenarios and campaigns for Geneforge would be no less difficult than making BoA ones.
Yes, and he has stated publicly that making the BoA scenario editor was extremely difficult and mentally taxing.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #20
I for one hope that Jeff makes as many Geneforge games as possible before creating Blades of Geneforge. I'd be more than happy if it's even 7 years before it comes about. We'll be fully occupied with BoA for quite some time, and Jeff really doesn't need to bang his brains out creating another scenario editor so soon!

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Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #21
Please excuse me for my ignorance, but:

Is it really such a big deal with Jeff releases an Avernum (or, perhaps, in the future, a Geneforge) game after he has released an editor? I know people claim they're part of a community that has created its own history, but in a certain sense, so what? Can't they just enjoy the new game as if it were simply a new scenario? Surely many scenarios have been built with information that conflicts with other scenarios - but if they're well-made and fun, does it matter?

I'm just confused as to the active hostility toward Jeff that seems to boil to the surface every now and then, and usually for reasons that seem fairly irrational to me.

I don't mean this post as a flame against those who hold low opinions of Jeff. I'm just curious as to their motivation.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #22
quote:
Originally written by Zorro:

Please excuse me for my ignorance, but:

Is it really such a big deal with Jeff releases an Avernum (or, perhaps, in the future, a Geneforge) game after he has released an editor? I know people claim they're part of a community that has created its own history, but in a certain sense, so what? Can't they just enjoy the new game as if it were simply a new scenario?

And that's exactly what most players will do. The trouble is that Jeff comes across as arrogant and expecting us to give his work special treatment. He's already publicly stated that he's uncomfortable with the idea of designers making scenarios set outside the world of Avernum.

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My BoE Page
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Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #23
quote:
Originally written by Zorro:
I'm just confused as to the active hostility toward Jeff that seems to boil to the surface every now and then, and usually for reasons that seem fairly irrational to me.
The reason for the anger is Jeff's repeated condescension and broken promises towards the BoE community. There are many, many known bugs in BoE, and they've been known for years. In the documentation that comes with BoE (even now), Jeff says that he will fix bugs. He doesn't. I think it's hard to understand unless you've actually experienced the frustration involved in setting up an elaborate, beautiful design for a sequence of nodes or a puzzle or whatever and watching it fail when you test it not because of your own design but because of a bug in BoE itself.

His support for BoE has been atrocious in other ways, too. Scenarios just randomly disappear off the Spiderweb tables. The ratings on the SW tables are a complete joke, and we've suggested ways to improve them (and even made a better ratings site, out of frustration). The first scenario design contest was called "the First Annual Scenario Design Contest," and a text file still comes with the BoE download describing it, but SW never actually lived up to the "annual" part of the contest. Jeff no longer even replies to e-mails about articles on the web site.

And probably the worst part is that when we write to him about this, when we complain about anything, he claims that his support for BoE has been "strong," and that no one actually wants him to make any changes to how he handles BoE. He even says that players wouldn't like a comprehensive bug fix to BoE, because it's too much trouble to download a patch. (Never mind that they're downloading scenarios all the time.)

There are many more reasons that people are angry with Jeff, but his truly miserable support for BoE over the course of seven years has been a major reason for that anger.

EDIT: And yes, Stareye has a lot more authority on this than I do.

[ Friday, January 28, 2005 07:32: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #24
quote:
Originally written by Zorro:


I don't mean this post as a flame against those who hold low opinions of Jeff. I'm just curious as to their motivation.

There are a lot of little things over many, many years to those who have been around. It mostly centers around broken promises and arrogant responses. Here are a few key issues:

1) Primarily, failure to fix bugs inherent in Blades of Exile. The product is advertised to have features that are broken. Imagine if you bought a car with air conditioning, but when you turn it on it just blows hot air. When asked to do anything about it, Jeff is unapologetic.

2) The "annual" scenario design contest was only hosted once. More were promised if participation was good. Participation was great, but it was "too taxing" on their employees. Offers by the community to help were shot down. To his credit, he will sometimes begrudgingly give a prize out to for the unofficial community contests.

3) Complete and total neglect of the Blades of Exile scenario tables. Designers put a lot of work into their scenarios and would like to have their work displayed and fairly evaluated.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00

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